Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 4:08 pm Post subject: Advice on buying 997 convertible
Hi all,
Recently joined and posted a thread in the newbie section, and got some very useful replies, so thanks.
Trying to break in to 997 ownership, but I have to say I'm finding the options very confusing (gen 1 v gen 2, manual v tiptronic v pdk, 2s v 4s etc). I know that people will say drive and then you'll know, but its not really that easy for me to locate suitable cars with dealers, and also conscious I don't want to waste their time if not interested.
So ideally what options should I be looking for to maximise resale value in a few years time? Also, as examples, I like the look of the two below (a gen 1 but with Hartech rebuild) and a gen 2 which looks good value for money:
I guess the question is whether it's worth spending another £10k on a gen 2 (which I assume will depreciate much quicker) or go for a gen 1 with Hartech rebuild. Are there any other options I should be considering? Would rather stay below £30k, but, in the rare event I have to end up shelling out £10k for an engine rebuild, should I really be spending more and getting a gen 2 anyway?
Any advice would be gratefully received.
Thanks in advance.
Dom
alex yates Le Mans
Joined: 06 Mar 2014 Posts: 15265 Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire
I looks like you have all the basics covered and you will probably get opinions from here on.
I was in exactly the same position you were last summer and finally went for a Gen 1 Tiptronic.. it wasn’t the car that I set out to buy when I decided to but it was low mileage (54k) very well spec’d and was less than £20k. I figured that even if the engine went pop I could justify it with a rebuild.
If you go for a Gen 1 invest in getting a pre check and borescope. It could save you significant immediate money. _________________ 997.1 C2S Cab Tip.
alex yates Le Mans
Joined: 06 Mar 2014 Posts: 15265 Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire
That Gen 1 doesn't have cruise control as stated in the listing. Also, there's no heated seats, which I would deffo want in a convertible. Doesn't have Hardback seats either (which is another option worth having).
The Gen 1 3.8S tip is slower than a standard 3.6 manual, which seems a bit pointless if you ask me.
Also, need to know what was involved in the Hartech rebuild. May only have had 1 cylinder sorted. You really need to be looking for one with all 6 done.
The Gen 2 has the Chrono pack (which I think includes launch control) and shaves quite a bit off the 0-60 time. As well as some other sporty goodies the standard car doesn't have. _________________ 2000 Manual 996 C4 Arctic Silver Convertible
T8 General
Joined: 29 Jun 2010 Posts: 14948 Location: Kent
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:34 pm Post subject:
Without going over old ground covered in your previous thread I'd have to ask what your main motivators are:
eg.
(1) If you prefer manual cars I can't see why you'd consider an auto - and vice-verca.
(2) If you want a sports car to drive and enjoy is 'resale value' a big factor? None of the 997 variants will fall much in value unless you pile miles on and/or fail to keep it up to scratch.
(3) An 'S' car will always be more expensive than an equivalent standard car. How important is the extra bhp?
(4) How often are you going to drive in adverse weather conditions? Under normal circumstances you wouldn't notice whether the car is 2wd or 4wd so unless you're planning to use the car as a daily driver, all year round, I wouldn't be swayed by either.
Other things to consider:
To those that are in the know a Gen1 car with a rebuilt engine, especially if it's been done by Hartech, is a good thing. To the wider audience any rebuild may be an instant turn off. The Gen2 car is universally accepted as having a better engine.
If you prefer an auto the Tiptronic is very good but you'll struggle to find anyone to argue that the PDK isn't better.
A lot depends on your budget but it's generally recommended that a first-timer should go for the Gen2 car, even if that means settling for a 3.6. I say 'settle' but many say that the 3.6 is actually a nicer car to drive and that under most circumstances you really wouldn't miss the bhp it's lacking.
Happy Hunting _________________ 2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
T8 General
Joined: 29 Jun 2010 Posts: 14948 Location: Kent
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 5:58 pm Post subject:
I've never followed Cabriolet prices but I've just had a look and it seems that £35k is the cut-over price for a Gen2 over a Gen1.
If your budget is £30k maximum your decision is pretty much made for you. If it's over that I'd certainly go for a £35k Gen2 car over any £30k+ Gen1.
Looking at AutoTrader it seems that Portiacraft in Mill Hill, North London have a good number in stock and would be well worth a visit to compare a number of similar cars side-by-side. _________________ 2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
Agree with T8 just seen they have a black Gen 1 with a Hartech rebuild.
Seen that you have been looking since October, I’m guessing that convertible prices are seasonal so maybe make a decision before they start to go up. _________________ 997.1 C2S Cab Tip.
resigner Suzuka
Joined: 19 Dec 2013 Posts: 1175
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:03 pm Post subject:
I have a convertible, as I have had convertibles since 1999 (MGF VVC, don't laugh!!).
Mine is a very very high spec car, but that was by mistake, rather than requirment Mine is a 2007 manual C2S Cabrio, sports chrono, heated seats, PSE, top tinted windscreen, hard back sports seats, kick plates, cruise control, the list goes on and on.
The key options are heated seats, really nice, I am driving around even at this time of year with the roof down, seat on 1 bar of heat and heater on. the seat makes this possible, and enjoyable. PSE, turned on all the time (or gundo hack), hard back seats are really good, cruise is very useful. Windstop, if it doesn't have one, get one on ebay around £150 to £200. Essential though.
Posing, the best option is the remote roof from the key fob for putting the roof down as you walk towards it
As some others have said, what will you use it for? Is your main worry selling it on in a few years? Do you drive manual or auto? Manual is great, when you add a cheapo SSK kit from ebay, transforms the car.
Sports Chrono? It does make a difference, a spirited drive is more amusing, but I don't use it that often, and turn it on, then PASM back off. PASM isn't great on UK roads, unless they are pretty smooth!
PCM2.1 is useless, change it for something more modern, even if you add a module to connect an ipod it doesn't work very well.
Key thing to know, the 997 was designed as a convertible first, so it didn't flop around because they took the roof off, so it does go like stink and handle brilliantly.
Now, A Hartech rebuild would be nice, but not essential. We believe that Bore Score affects about 5% of cars, so don't rule out car's which haven't been done, they might well not need it. Get it checked though to make sure.
Convertibles do cost more than coupes, partly I suspect because there are less of them. i paid £30k for mine almost 4 years ago, it had 43k miles, that high spec and was in mint condition.
Enjoy, and do test drive some. C2S and C4S are very different animals.
Personally, I hate Tiptronic box, PDK is good, but I do love a manual. Mind you, I don't commute in mine as I work from home, so most of my driving is in rural Hertfordshire and not in traffic.
alex yates Le Mans
Joined: 06 Mar 2014 Posts: 15265 Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire
Some of those option don't seem like much, eg. Hardback seats, but once you've lived with them for a while it's hard to imagine what it'd be like without.
Unless you're an 'auto' guy, I wouldn't bother with the old school auto on the Gen 1. Too sluggish, higher chance of scoring bores, and you fall asleep between changes. _________________ 2000 Manual 996 C4 Arctic Silver Convertible
Magic919 Österreich
Joined: 05 Jun 2013 Posts: 973 Location: Berkshire
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 8:07 pm Post subject:
I’d prefer the Gen 2 of those two. It lacks PSE, which you can add later.
PASM is great on U.K. roads and you can’t switch it off. Normal PASM works a treat, but sport mode is very firm. _________________ 997.2 C2S PDK
997.2 C4S PDK
tom_nieto Monza
Joined: 08 Jan 2017 Posts: 218
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 9:18 pm Post subject: Re: Advice on buying 997 convertible
dom_gg wrote:
I guess the question is whether it's worth spending another £10k on a gen 2 (which I assume will depreciate much quicker) or go for a gen 1 with Hartech rebuild. Are there any other options I should be considering? Would rather stay below £30k, but, in the rare event I have to end up shelling out £10k for an engine rebuild, should I really be spending more and getting a gen 2 anyway?
I had these thoughts. I also didn’t have another £10k to buy a really good gen 2. I ended up with an excellent 997.1 C2S convertible and figured I’d worry about an engine rebuild if it were ever required. Gen 2 cars aren’t immune from mechanical trouble as with any higher performance sports car. I now have a lovely car which I don’t drive enough and haven’t had to spend >£10k extra on initial outlay.
Honestly, if you’re not too worried about the looks of the gen 1 vs gen 2, either you need to buy the absolute newest and best gen 2 car you can, or go for a cherished and potentially rebuilt gen 1 and spend some of the savings on making it perfect.
Otherwise, resigner’s advice pretty much sums it up. Heated sports seats and sports exhaust make the convertible brilliant. Chrono is a bit pointless on a manual car.
EDIT: my advice would change slightly if you want an automatic. The tiptronic is a bit rubbish compared to PDK!
Rojdog Trainee
Joined: 08 Nov 2018 Posts: 67 Location: Essex
Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:37 pm Post subject:
alex yates wrote:
^^^^^^^Some excellent advice there^^^^^^^^
Some of those option don't seem like much, eg. Hardback seats, but once you've lived with them for a while it's hard to imagine what it'd be like without.
What in your opinion is better about the hardback seats? I've had only hardbacks in my current and previous car, just wondering? Does is make the seat firmer?
alex yates Le Mans
Joined: 06 Mar 2014 Posts: 15265 Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire
Joined: 10 May 2018 Posts: 201 Location: Hampshire
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:18 am Post subject:
Some very sensible advice on this thread.
My opinion: I just couldn't live with a Gen 1 997 because of the issues with the engine. I know it's a small % affected, and I know Hartech can rebuild failed engines and make them bulletproof. BUT, I'm rather risk averse, and I just couldn't be doing with the hassle of sorting out a rebuild - getting the car sent oop North, waiting weeks or months for the job to finish, all that.
So, my advice: aim for a really good Gen 2, even if you have to stretch the budget. Obviously PDK vs. manual will be down to your own preference. Don't discount non-S cars. They are cheaper and just as capable in the real world as an "S".
If you have the cash, now is a fantastic time to buy - the market is very slow, and cabs are cheaper in winter. Enjoy the hunt, whatever you decide! _________________ 2011 Gen 2 Carrera 2 coupe, Ohlins R&T, CGR Automotive full exhaust. Arctic / black.
MaxA Barcelona
Joined: 11 Oct 2015 Posts: 1390 Location: Helsinki
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:30 am Post subject:
If you're looking to get 'into' (soonish) and 'out of' (in a year or two) a 911 convertible at around 30-35k (I don't recall your budget), then I'd say you need to find the ideal purist car, which you'll have the best chance of shifting on in a while.
It seems to me, then, that you should get a 997.2 (3.8 DFI) C2S, manual, in a nice plain colour (black, grey, silver) with a decent interior (not red, beige or grey) and some choice options such sports seats, sports wheel, PSE, Turbo rims (as everyone except me seems to love them), garage queen, with low miles and a recent detail and polish, and no mods at all (except the body colour painted console and maybe seat backs, as these are cool).
And then don't use it much. And don't track it. Just go to shows and meets on weekends.
I did not do this, so I might be wrong, but then - with respect - I don't intend to sell up in a year or so. _________________ 2010 9972 C4S PDK: Carrara White, Sea Blue. Mostly driven, lightly modified, occasionally tracked, and usually a bit grubby.
Got to have heated seats in a convertible in UK! I would also make sure to get the sport plus seats as said. _________________ 911 GT2RS Build - 981 Boxster S
Sold ~ 987 Boxster S 3.4, 997.1 3.8 Cab, 987 3.2 Boxster S, 986 Boxster 2.5
I went for Gen2 3.6 manual, no PASM, I have absolutely no regrets whatsoever.
I love the thing. Aesthetically it appears to be on stilts, but that doesn’t really bother me when I’m wringing it’s neck through a constant radius corner.
The 997.1 interior feels much more dated. (I accept Gen2 is not a patch on the 9x1 interior) _________________ Manual 997.2 c2 :Basalt + gtechniq : H&S + Gundo
Go for it. I seem to alternate between convertibles and coupes. I bought a 997.1 Turbo 6MT a few years back and it’s lovely to drive with the top down. I agree adaptive sports seats are worth it. I wouldn’t worry if a car doesn’t have the Sports option as I retro fitted mine at an OPC last year, the chrono clock couldn’t be fitted but the rest was and I paid about £1.1k. I also fitted a short shifter. The one option I don’t have is heated seats and I really miss it. There are threads on OEM retro fitting it at an OPC but it is prohibitively expensive. I’m toying with the idea of going aftermarket at a cost of £350 and hiding the button somewhere. Good luck with the search, it’s part of the fun.
Tobyone Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 20 Jan 2018 Posts: 250 Location: Somewhere else
Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:43 pm Post subject:
Counter Of Beans wrote:
Some very sensible advice on this thread.
My opinion: I just couldn't live with a Gen 1 997 because of the issues with the engine. I know it's a small % affected, and I know Hartech can rebuild failed engines and make them bulletproof. BUT, I'm rather risk averse, and I just couldn't be doing with the hassle of sorting out a rebuild - getting the car sent oop North, waiting weeks or months for the job to finish, all that.
So, my advice: aim for a really good Gen 2, even if you have to stretch the budget. Obviously PDK vs. manual will be down to your own preference. Don't discount non-S cars. They are cheaper and just as capable in the real world as an "S".
If you have the cash, now is a fantastic time to buy - the market is very slow, and cabs are cheaper in winter. Enjoy the hunt, whatever you decide!
I have a GEN1 997 c4s and never had the slightest problem.
The bores are not scored and had it borescoped when I brought it and 2 years later at a service and yep all fine.
Just because you have a gen1 car does not mean it will go pop at all.
The tip box is a bit schlooooow yes I absolutely agree I drive mine using the rockers and never set off in second, still no idea who's idea at Porsche thought that was a good idea.
Come on all stop knocking the gen1 cars _________________ 997.1 C4s GT Silver, factory Aerokit
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Mine is a 2007 manual C2S Cabrio, sports chrono, heated seats, PSE, top tinted windscreen, hard back sports seats, kick plates, cruise control, the list goes on and on.
