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spongebob squarepants
Shanghai


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 4667
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's a lovely motor, BUT no A/C, no hardbacks, grey interior. IIRC I bought in the low 30's, sold back for similar, the owner after I did the same, just at a higher cost.
Zingers is correct, I hated the drive, once you've had modern you can't turn back, it's a little 997 v 991, you think the 997 is the bees until you drive the 991, there's no way back.
The price? credit to Tom and co for sticking to their guns, personally in this market it's surely too high. Id want the hardbacks, air con and more desirable interior for that money, as to Guards not being desirable, please you're having a laugh surely!!!
_________________

991 C2S X51 powerkit PDK in racing yellow, PCCB, PDCC, PSE, Sports design kit, ducktail.
EX 997.2 Carrera 4S PDK
EX 997.2 Carrera S PDK
EX 993 C2 manual in guards red
EX 997 C2 gen 2 PDK
EX 993 Targa
EX 993 Carrera 4 manual
EX 996 3.4 Cabriolet
 
  
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IMI A
Suzuka


Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 1142
Location: Dubai


PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

911livin wrote:
IMI A wrote:
I'd put the asking price on that 993 to £65,995 and not budge. Straight cars with no stories few and far between.


You can buy my 993 for that price..
If I didn't have yellow would go for red. Blue perhaps a bit a bit too common and conservative whilst of course very nice thumbsup
 
  
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MaxA
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 1390
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first car was red, and it was christened the Little Red Fire Engine. Not by me. Fortunately, it wasn't fast enough or cool enough to attract the attention of the rozzers.

I certainly don't think a Guards Red 911 is wrong, and a red 993 might well be of it's time ('period correct' I gather is the term), but now that I run a car that is certainly fast enough and potentially cool enough to attract the attention of the rozzers (and other knobs), I just don't want to attract any more attention than I already do (in my dirty racing white car). Cop

I'm sure however that there are more outgoing types who will jump at the opportunity.
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 12694
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hand It's worth taking note the car that sold for 30s at auction I mentioned being a particularly good car it would appear, traders in 993 will have been all over that like a tramp on chips. They're not daft, they'll have factored in the work and then their margin for a retail sale and wouldn't want to do their dough paying too much.

For a personal purchase it made more sense to go that bit extra and enjoy it.

It's a good indication of where the market is. When price gets high people get more fussy and can likely stretch to a WB, H/Backs, AC, Varioram etc etc. The car is in WB territory. Bandit
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tyinsky
Montreal


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 550
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One car, at auction, which looked worse than it was from the images but still needs a repaint doesn't indicate where the pricing is for me. An anomaly. A bargain for someone.

Not doubting it is tough out there though, and that many look overpriced.
 
  
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 12694
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyinsky wrote:
One car, at auction, which looked worse than it was from the images but still needs a repaint doesn't indicate where the pricing is for me. An anomaly. A bargain for someone.

Not doubting it is tough out there though, and that many look overpriced.


Hand A Conini Stick inspection never lies so best not do your dough by paying overs
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tyinsky
Montreal


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 550
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grin

You are the Sage of Cheshire Zingari.
 
  
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IMI A
Suzuka


Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 1142
Location: Dubai


PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The early sports seats the red car has are the most comfortable Porsche has made. Hardbacks were cost cutting. AC never works in an air cooled properly. Better off getting electric AC if you really want it.

Zingari still spinning he's given up his amazing flat 6 in a saville row suit for georgic oxfami with a four pot hatchback engine Grin

Lets revisit this thread in 10 yrs and place a sportsman bet that we will be kicking themselves for not buying a good no stories original panel no accident 993 C2. Personally I think 993 the only air cooled thats not really had its day other than RS and, C4S and C2 S.

C2/C4 should be worth more IMO they're the last of the breed and to many people who drive them the best air cooled thumbsup
 
  
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highway
Albert Park


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 1732



PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The AC in my 993 was powerful and ice cold over the 10 year period I owned it. Never understood why it had a bad reputation. Nonsense to suggest it doesn’t work in aircooled.
 
  
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decgraham
Barcelona


Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 1273
Location: Spain


PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

highway wrote:
The AC in my 993 was powerful and ice cold over the 10 year period I owned it. Never understood why it had a bad reputation. Nonsense to suggest it doesn’t work in aircooled.


+1 on the above, my A/C has always worked well, dealt with the 52C summer heat of Kuwait without a problem and now deals with a milder 39C Spanish summer Cool

ATB Smile
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 12694
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

highway wrote:
The AC in my 993 was powerful and ice cold over the 10 year period I owned it. Never understood why it had a bad reputation. Nonsense to suggest it doesn’t work in aircooled.


It's amazing how it managed to still keep working when you only had the car out one day a year Dont know


993 is a great car (last of the air-cooled Rolling Eyes ) no denying. I've sampled them, enjoyed the experience and moved on. C2 too light on the front end, C4 a better choice. I'd have another but not at current prices when there's so much variety about for less dough. When I bought in at less than 20 bags different story. Coming back in 10yrs and you'll be paying £25 a day to drive it in most cities nooo Plus I'm not sure the millenium generation see 'classic' cars the same we we do.

Quandry. Why would I pay the dough for the red car when the 981 Spyder 911v have is within reach, can have OPC warranty for £600pa and will hold steady? Grin
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highway
Albert Park


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 1732



PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost by definition, everyone posting on this thread likes 993’s. It’s a given. The OP question was why the red car hasn’t sold. Z makes some solid points above. Values of air cooled have been riding high for years but we have reached the point where the asking prices are so high that other choices demand consideration.

To pay £55k for a N/B 993 with no AC you have to REALLY want one. It’s not collector spec or mileage and we are moving toward a time where (as above) old polluting cars will have their use penalised. Thus, unless your car is very desirable (WB, manual, very low miles) the values are, IMHO unlikely to rise any more, from this level.

You can’t tell me that the subject car here is likely to be valued at £70k + assuming mileage much the same, in another 5 years!!
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 14959
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

highway wrote:


Almost by definition, everyone posting on this thread likes 993’s. It’s a given. The OP question was why the red car hasn’t sold. Z makes some solid points above. Values of air cooled have been riding high for years but we have reached the point where the asking prices are so high that other choices demand consideration.

To pay £55k for a N/B 993 with no AC you have to REALLY want one.



Yeah

eg. If you want to keep it in the family, stick with Guards Red, have decent A/C and have change from your £55k ...........


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ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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IMI A
Suzuka


Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 1142
Location: Dubai


PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 981 question depends on what you're looking for. Its not retro cool like a 993 or 964 for that matter. Zingers you messed up letting go of the SS Wink

I can defo see that red original panel mostly original paint 993 C2 Coupe with 70k mile being worth £70k in next 3-5 years. Needs to be used sparingly like 1500 mile a year. The car has the lovely patina of an original car which restored cars simply cannot replicate. I'd pay a premium for an original car for sure. Different opinions create a market.

On AC most systems are 25 yrs old now and more trouble than they're worth IMO although maybe they fixed it for 993? Heard really good reviews re the electric ac system which will be rolled out for 964 and 993 in due course.

http://classicretrofit.com/products/electric-air-conditioning/
 
  
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Luddite
Trainee


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 99
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

decgraham, glad that you found something of interest in my rambling thought patterns, it`s an old man kinda thing. Unfortunately I struggle when trying to convert thought to the typed word, punctuating and constructing sentences well eludes me somewhat having left school at age 15 with a BPA..

I do like to share, and thanks for sharing the tale of your first sighting of a 911 and the effect it had on your then young impressionable self... (-: It is for me heartwarming to read that folk can indeed succeed in making childhood dreams become a reality. I have a few acquaintances who have long worked towards that end and made it too.. (-:

I did type up rather a long intro in the newbie zone, which the moderators transferred to the members lounge bar, and is available there if you have any interest in my personal Porsche progress. Thanks for taking the time to respond decgraham, I do type too much and wonder if I might be annoying folk here in doing so.

I see you are in Spain... lovely, I thought of living there myself in a place called Los Romanes, drove down there in my old sports car and sought out the backroads for the journey home, taking in a corner of Portugal in the process it was all quite an adventure...(-:

Back to the thread... we were typing of a lovely red 993.... I guess there may be many ways to arrive at the value of anything and that which Zingari types works well for me, in that I too value 993`s in the 30`s though as a wise man once said "everything is relative" if that is accepted, then it seems reasonable to add say another 10k to that if bought from a reputable dealer who is known to check cars out thoroughly and more importantly are prepared to provide a level of guarantee that they WILL back up should something unfortunate, which might add another k or two to the initial 30`s k valuation. For ME, no aircon would be a bonus, less to maintain and go wrong... 993`s are old cars now, and things potentially go wrong even if you rarely or tend not use them and keep them in a bubble in the garage...?

As for sticking to ones guns on evaluation.... Yup I have known someone prepared to do that for by normal expectations would seem way too many YEARS when trying to sell a primary asset.. before finally accepting a burst balloon market offer to allow moving on..

993 seems primitive compared to modern motoring... (-: Yeah well some years back when I drove the 993 at it`s launch when asked to comment on it compared with my then 10year old non-sport SC, I suggested I perhaps felt like one of the Wright Brothers would have felt if given a Spitfire to fly.... So it seems relativity comes into play again when Sponge thought the 993 perhaps felt it a tad crude compared to what he may have become more used to in terms of motoring..?

ME..? From RED Porsche to m/cycle for all year round enjoyment of the roads hereabouts, with the passage of time and old stiffening legs, feeling ever colder, looking to enjoy the same roads without totally loosing the sense of REAL involvement that is m/cycling.. hmm...? Ended up in an antiquated old sports car with a rep for overheating like most overly modified old sportscars...(-: That heater blowing hot air on my legs was just wonderful as TOGETHER we bumped, thumped and jiggled it`s ever loosening bolts screws and bits and bobbs while roaring like a bull on the ran dan, scaring ourselves, the wildlife and farm animals alike... and at least one Porsche driver... but that is yet another story.....(-: Involvement in the driving process...? You bet ..INVOLVEMENT in spades relative to enjoying twisting undulating roads.....I guess what for me was an important factor in continuing the enjoyment to be found out on the road, was that the kinda RAW experience driving my old sports car provided did not encourage or require the ballistic law bursting speeds with the potential unfortunate following on consequences that a more luxurious or cosseted machine might provide... Just a personal choice based on my own flawed logic.

I had not known until very recently, and it came as quite a surprise, that my thinking on the drivers eye view that disappointed me somewhat when driving the 993 at it`s launch, was similar to that Mr Porsche had expressed when he drove it..!!!

Will try to post a couple of pics to approximately illustrate the drivers eye view in my old sports car, and ask how fast do you think might be fast enough to really enjoy such a road in YOUR Porsche ...?

Having thought about the speed consider the second pic .... What if this was just round the corner in the first pic...hmm..?

Seems in posting the pics reversed... DUH !

I am NOT in any way promoting my old car or that which it I have greatly enjoyed over that which ANY Porsche might provide for it`s rightly proud owner. My thinking is just that I may have arrived at a stage where the RAW experiences my old car provides may just be a tad too raw for an ever stiffening old duffer...Time will tell..

Any thoughts...?
 



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IMI A
Suzuka


Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 1142
Location: Dubai


PostPosted: Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lovely pics.

The key is never to buy as an investment and use for high days if you enjoy motoring in something with a bit of character. The bills can be expensive and completely wipe out any potential capital appreciation or worse.
 
  
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Luddite
Trainee


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 99
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMI A, glad you liked the pics, I have many similar from a few countries in Southern Europe, though none in Germany, I was not in search of autobahns to indulge in 100mph plus motoring for my idea of adventure.. but admit to having enjoyed a track day or two in it..(-: The old thing has indeed been up in the three figure range and accelerates quite well, it`s a power to weight kinda thing with it`s alloy body panels, and V8 engine, on a good day I think there are perhaps 150 horses under the bonnet... but after a four year lay up I suspect a few ponies might have strayed off...(-:

Investment car...hmm, well that can be a bit of a trap to fall into..hmm ? Is your house an investment or a home that may go up in value over time. Just as you typed IMI A factoring in all the costs of a car or a home against cash returns at the time of resale would be a tad complex... a comfortable and happy home can pay huge dividends every day over a period of many years. If you buy a car as a pure investment put it in storage and sell it again without ever using it... Might as well head down to the bingo with all the old girls... You never know your luck..(-:

I guess if you buy a car known to generally increase in value over time then I guess the high cost of purchase relative to income or money borrowed against it`s purchase can be used as a means of convincing one`s self or a significant other, that it is a sound investment... hmm?

ME.. when I bought my old car it was with the equivalent of five years savings, and during the early years of ownership it`s value was important lest I hit financial difficulties and required to sell it to help whatever situation might have caught me out, I suspect many will be operating similarly today..?

TODAY, I feel that given the adventures we have enjoyed in my old car, it owes me nothing, yet it is bound to be worth as much as I paid for it and perhaps a bit more..but then I do not have the commitments that I once had when younger, so relativity ever creeps into any equasion..?

Perhaps best to just enjoy what you have while you have it, and if that is just knowing you have it and polishing it, comforted to some degree by it`s imagined financial value.. then great.. for the last four years or so of not using my old car I still get a buzz out of knowing it is out there in the garage... Thumb
 
  
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