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Swampy
Monza


Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Posts: 190
Location: N/W London


PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:34 pm    Post subject: Air Bag, Below Lower Limit ??? Reply with quote

I had an airbag light on so purchased myself a diagnostic reader (Icarsoft Por 2)
The fault pictured below was shown, all reset and its not reappeared after a short drive.
Does anyone have a clue what it means Dont know
I must admit that only looking at the picture now I have noticed that I only looked at page 1 of 3 Rolling Eyes

Regards Swamps
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6987
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you changed the steering wheel recently ?

Have you removed said wheel recently ?

Fault code refers to the airbag in the steering wheel .. it could be the clock spring or the airbag wiring .. never seen this code for an actual airbag fault though .

The airbag has 2 stages for minor and major accident , only one stage has flagged a fault .

My usual experience of this is when the wheel has been removed and the airbag plug has not been refitted properly .. there are a green and an orange plug on the back of the airbag , not sure which is stage 1 though .
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Swampy
Monza


Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Posts: 190
Location: N/W London


PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks deMort,
No the steering wheel hasnt been touched in my 20 months of ownership.
The only thing that I have done recently that is out of norm is connect it up to a trickle charger (via the cig connector) as the battery recently died.
Could it be related Dont know
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6987
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope.

Code has cleared so monitor it for now .. if the light comes back on i would lean towards the clock spring (the wiring that connects the airbag to the car ) but this is only a hunch and you would need to get it checked out .
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Swampy
Monza


Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Posts: 190
Location: N/W London


PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deMort wrote:
Nope.

Code has cleared so monitor it for now .. if the light comes back on i would lean towards the clock spring (the wiring that connects the airbag to the car ) but this is only a hunch and you would need to get it checked out .



Many Thanks deMort, one to keep an eye on, the car is still under warranty so if it goes again hopefully it will before it expires at the end of May,provided its covered Dont know

A little sent to help Ruth on her way, my way of saying Thank You for your continued help here at 911uk.... Top Man Smile
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Swampy
Monza


Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Posts: 190
Location: N/W London


PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quick update, the airbag light did come on again after a few days after a reset, I have captured all 3 screens this time and posted below. Car is booked in to OPC Hatfield on Monday 11th March. Car is reaching the end of its warranty in May and not sure if it will be covered, Shall find out when its fixed I guess.
I shall let you know in a few days time Smile
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6987
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An educated guess .. or just a guess depending on how you look at it ..

Its a wiring short and i would suspect the clock spring .. its the connection to the airbag has shorted out .

I cant see it being the airbag itself .

Its not a code ive seen before.

As its booked into an OPC ill not investigate the fault codes any further .. but i do like to have a go before something is proved and thats for me im afraid and not you ..

I get strange faults at work .. i often have to rely on instinct for want of a better word to know were to go ..

Faults like this help me become better strange as it may seem as after the fault is fixed (and you let us know ) i can analyse how i think about these systems .

I do actually use the forum as a training excersise to be honest .. thats what i get from this anyways .

Hopefully its not expensive Thumb
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Swampy
Monza


Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Posts: 190
Location: N/W London


PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply deMort, I'm like you but not as eager as I once was, if something was broken then I would always be there to try and fix rather that pay for someone else to do it.
Yes to save money but also to learn for future things, but tbh things nowadays have gotten a bit to techno for me Sad
As for the cost of this, I'm not going to loose any sleep over it, it costs what it costs and if its covered by the warranty then even better Very Happy
I shall ask them when I pick it up to see what the issue was and update you with their findings Dont know

Regards Swamps Smile
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Swampy
Monza


Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Posts: 190
Location: N/W London


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well dropped off the car today as planned, apparently no fault was found and codes reset, taken for a test drive and nothing triggered the fault again.
They said that I should 'monitor' it hmmm 🤔
But they gave the car a health check and found a bit of play in a track rod end, I said that they may as replace the pair and do a wheel alignment as the other will no doubt be on its way out as well.
They also mentioned that the front pads will need replacing soon, and mumbled that I should also replace the discs at the same time, that can wait as I'll stick it in an indi or do them myself.
So just waiting until tomorrow when he said he would email me the report before commencing with the track rods.
I did mention to him that I posted a message onto a forum about the airbag light and maybe the spring between the steering wheel and the car was suggested as being the culprit and he was going to put this forward to the technician !
I await the call & email in the morning.

Swamps Smile
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6987
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intermitant fault im afraid ..

i hate them .. we cant fix or test whats not broken .. it can be a slight resistance in a wire , it can be a software glitch .. either way its a pain and for once i have to agree with them .. i do hate doing that ..

I would give the same advise .. see if it comes back .. with no permanent fault then we are into throwing bits at the car to try and fix it .. so its a case of monitor it and hope it either gets worse or doesnt come back .

i suspect a clock spring fault but its not worth throwing money at just yet .. i cant after all see your car and even if i could .. no present fault and i cant confirm anything im afraid .
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Swampy
Monza


Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Posts: 190
Location: N/W London


PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally agree with you deMort, I'm not sure if I'm having the pleasure of paying for the investigation or not, but no doubt I'll find out soon.
I know you said it had nothing to do with it but the light only lit up after a flat battery and after I connected up a trickle charger to the car, so for peace of mind I'm not going to connect it up for a while, just to see, you never know it might be I think that they call them 'bastard feeds' if it lights up then I'll know it's not that, anyway the weather is improving now so I'll get out a bit more to charge it 😀

Swamps Smile
Oh btw I'm not sure if the long reply was for me, I'm in the pub at the mo so I'll have a proper read later 👍
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6987
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swampy wrote:
Well dropped off the car today as planned, apparently no fault was found and codes reset, taken for a test drive and nothing triggered the fault again.
They said that I should 'monitor' it hmmm 🤔

Swamps Smile


If there was no fault codes then they cant reset them .. cant clear a code thats not there .. also did you clear the fault codes after you read them out ? as if not there would have been a code and the normal action is to follow the test plan for said code .

Im afraid i cant see the car being on a trickle charger having anything to do with this code .. but hell in this game anything is possible .. thats what makes electrics such fun .. well for me perhaps and not you Smile

At the end of the day i cant see the car or work on it .. so what i come up with is only ever an educated guess im afraid .
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Swampy
Monza


Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Posts: 190
Location: N/W London


PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deMort wrote:
Swampy wrote:
Well dropped off the car today as planned, apparently no fault was found and codes reset, taken for a test drive and nothing triggered the fault again.
They said that I should 'monitor' it hmmm 🤔

Swamps Smile


If there was no fault codes then they cant reset them .. cant clear a code thats not there .. also did you clear the fault codes after you read them out ? as if not there would have been a code and the normal action is to follow the test plan for said code .

Im afraid i cant see the car being on a trickle charger having anything to do with this code .. but hell in this game anything is possible .. thats what makes electrics such fun .. well for me perhaps and not you Smile

At the end of the day i cant see the car or work on it .. so what i come up with is only ever an educated guess im afraid .


Evening,

I left the codes as shown above, may be that wasn't enough for them to work on Question
I didn't want to mention that I had reset them once and it triggered again some 2 weeks later, just in case they said it wouldn't be covered under warranty as I reset them.
They did mention today on the phone that it may of been due to low voltage if the car hadn't been used much (which it hadn't, but still on the trickle charger) when I get it back I'll just see how it goes and I shall ask them again with what they found.

On a different note I must say that I was a tad shocked with the price of a pair of track rod ends to be fitted Surprised
Anyway I agreed to have them done as they had the car there, but indi for me from now on with jobs like this Surprised
So then I get another phone call telling me that they cant split a ball joint and ordered a 'Special tool' and it won't be there until Thursday. Sorry but I do find that hard to believe Floor
Oh well the joys of owning a Porsche and their Porsche Tax Dont know
Any other news and I'll update you

Swamps Smile
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Magic919
Suzuka


Joined: 05 Jun 2013
Posts: 1197
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find their geometry charges a bit rich, TBH. Plus they don’t always knock off the discount for parts on older cars.
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6987
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would appear to be the inner rack arms .. not the outer track rod ends , its not uncommon to have a small amount of play in these ..

I found it strange for many years that some cars have the play and other similar cars dont .. we finally put it down to speed bumps as the cars from speed bump areas were always the ones effected by this .

Ive never seen an excessively worn rack arm joint though .. ive changed plenty and you can do it with a 36 mm spanner .. special tool .. erm ..

I can only asume who ever did the job has never done one before or even worked on many Caymans , boxsters or 997 as it happens on all of them , my assumption here is it was the apprentise .. yup im that suprised atm ... they have ordered a crows foot spanner basically .

The cost though Surprised .. to be fair that doesnt do it justice so .. Surprised Surprised

Im gobsmacked as is everyone at work .. perhaps best if i just say an Indy is cheaper (not going to say what we would charge ) and you dont need a full geo .. you just need a front end adjustment .


For the fault code for the airbag which they couldnt fix ..

A car on a trickle charger .. it wont have a low voltage .. thats the point of a trickle charger .. even so ..

The car with the ignition on ( key in the lock ) does a self check of the airbag system .. this is when it may find faults .. also once moving it will continually make sure the system is fine , anything it sees no matter how quick it will flag a code , the light and shut down that part of the system .

The car has no idea of any faults on the system untill the key is in the ignition lock .. hence i often change airbag parts with no keys in the ignition and i never get a light on which i would do if the key was in .

You have an intermitant fault which may only happen for a millisecond but the car will see it and trigger the light .. this as you know can only be turned off by clearing the fault code .

For them to say its low battery voltage ... hmm .. ask them to explain that .. i for one would love to be sitting then when they tryed Very Happy

The shame is you will still have an airbag fault , im guessing it will come back in a week or 2 .. if it helps i showed this to one of my collegues today .. more about the cost they charged you but when he read it he said .. that sounds like the clock spring to me .

Downside .. i cant see the car , its under warrenty anyways so all i can do is say what i think is wrong .. my guess is clock spring as is my collegues guess .

Youll just have to monitor it for now .. sigh .
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Carrerascott
Silverstone


Joined: 28 Mar 2015
Posts: 128
Location: West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that £380 for a 4 wheel geo alignment!!! Surprised Surprised

My Indy is £100 (or £90 when done with suspension work)
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Swampy
Monza


Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Posts: 190
Location: N/W London


PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carrerascott wrote:
Is that £380 for a 4 wheel geo alignment!!! Surprised Surprised

My Indy is £100 (or £90 when done with suspension work)



Thanks Sad
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Swampy
Monza


Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Posts: 190
Location: N/W London


PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deMort wrote:
That would appear to be the inner rack arms .. not the outer track rod ends , its not uncommon to have a small amount of play in these ..

I found it strange for many years that some cars have the play and other similar cars dont .. we finally put it down to speed bumps as the cars from speed bump areas were always the ones effected by this .

Ive never seen an excessively worn rack arm joint though .. ive changed plenty and you can do it with a 36 mm spanner .. special tool .. erm ..

I can only asume who ever did the job has never done one before or even worked on many Caymans , boxsters or 997 as it happens on all of them , my assumption here is it was the apprentise .. yup im that suprised atm ... they have ordered a crows foot spanner basically .

The cost though Surprised .. to be fair that doesnt do it justice so .. Surprised Surprised

Im gobsmacked as is everyone at work .. perhaps best if i just say an Indy is cheaper (not going to say what we would charge ) and you dont need a full geo .. you just need a front end adjustment .


For the fault code for the airbag which they couldnt fix ..

A car on a trickle charger .. it wont have a low voltage .. thats the point of a trickle charger .. even so ..

The car with the ignition on ( key in the lock ) does a self check of the airbag system .. this is when it may find faults .. also once moving it will continually make sure the system is fine , anything it sees no matter how quick it will flag a code , the light and shut down that part of the system .

The car has no idea of any faults on the system untill the key is in the ignition lock .. hence i often change airbag parts with no keys in the ignition and i never get a light on which i would do if the key was in .

You have an intermitant fault which may only happen for a millisecond but the car will see it and trigger the light .. this as you know can only be turned off by clearing the fault code .

For them to say its low battery voltage ... hmm .. ask them to explain that .. i for one would love to be sitting then when they tryed Very Happy

The shame is you will still have an airbag fault , im guessing it will come back in a week or 2 .. if it helps i showed this to one of my collegues today .. more about the cost they charged you but when he read it he said .. that sounds like the clock spring to me .

Downside .. i cant see the car , its under warrenty anyways so all i can do is say what i think is wrong .. my guess is clock spring as is my collegues guess .

Youll just have to monitor it for now .. sigh .



deMort,

I'm not going to post just yet but the fees above have risen more, I have sent them an email asking them for some more details and I shall post here in due course.

The car went in with an airbag fault on Monday and I'm hoping to get it back tomorrow (Fri) or ???
But after a 'Health Check' for a 'Bit Of Play' in a track rod end I'm going to be in the region of £1600+ lighter.
Funny how this wasn't spotted in the MOT in Dec (some 200 miles before).

This is the first time I have used an OPC for a repair and I'm slowly loosing faith in them for any future repairs.

I shall keep you updated Confused

Regards Swamps
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6987
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Feel free to email if you want to as i realise not everyone wants to post details on the forum or if needed ill happily pm you my number and we can chat on the phone .

De.Mort@virginmedia.com

To be honest .. ive just made a thread in the general section about VHC ,s and im sorry to say .. this was my insperation for it .

As you say .. 200 miles from an MOT and no mention of play in the rack arms .. not so good Sad

If you do have the video link from the VHC i would love to see it .. email above .
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Swampy
Monza


Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Posts: 190
Location: N/W London


PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deMort wrote:
Feel free to email if you want to as i realise not everyone wants to post details on the forum or if needed ill happily pm you my number and we can chat on the phone .

De.Mort@virginmedia.com

To be honest .. ive just made a thread in the general section about VHC ,s and im sorry to say .. this was my insperation for it .

As you say .. 200 miles from an MOT and no mention of play in the rack arms .. not so good Sad

If you do have the video link from the VHC i would love to see it .. email above .



Just sent :-O

Enjoy Smile
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