Welcome to 911UK
The only place for Porsche, 911uk is the definitive enthusiast and resource site for the Porsche 911.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so join up today for full access to the site and benefit from latest member offers.

Porsche Classifieds
Sell Your Porsche on 911uk
Create a Free Classified Advert
Search Ads
Classified Adverts FAQ
Trade Classified Information
Buyer & Seller Fraud Protection
Consumer Rights Act
Pre Purchase Inspection (PPI)
Porsche Car Sourcing
Porsche Cars Wanted
Official Porsche Centre Reviews
Model
Stock
Porsche 911
991 : 2011- 17
997 : 2004- 74
996 : 1997-2005 29
993 : 1993-1998 3
964 : 1989-1993 3
Carrera 3.2 : 1983-1989 2
Carrera SC : 1977-1983 1
930 Turbo : 1975-1989 0
Early 911 : 1964-1977 3
Porsche Other Models
Classic : 1950-1965 0
Boxster : 1997- 17
Cayman : 2005- 20
Cayenne : 2003- 6
Macan : 2014- 4
Panamera : 2009- 1
912-914-924-928-944-968 2
959 - CarreraGT - RaceCar 0
Car Parts For Sale & Wanted
Other Items For Sale & Wanted
Wheels Tyres For Sale & Wanted
Number Plates For Sale Wanted

Porsche Services
Porsche Body Shop Repair
Paint Protection & Wrapping
Porsche Classic Insurance
Porsche Classic Parts
Porsche Classic Restoration
Porsche Design Collection
Porsche Engine Gearbox Rebuild
Porsche Heritage & History
Porsche News
Porsche Picture Gallery
Win a New Porsche 911

Porsche Parts
Body Parts, Body Styling
Brakes, Clearance
Electrical, Exhausts
Engine Cooling, Engine Electrical
Engine Rebuild, Heating Cooling
Interior Incar, Lighting
Rubber Seals, Service Parts
Steering, Suspension
Transmission, Workshop Tools
Early 911, 911 - 930, 928 - 968
964 - 993, 996 - 997, Boxster
Cayman, Cayenne, Panamera

Porsche Model Range
911 [991] 2011-Current
Porsche 911 [991]
911 [997] 2004-Current
Porsche 911 [997]
911 [GT] GT1-GT2-GT3
Porsche 911 [GT]
911 [996] 1997-2005
Porsche 911 [996]
911 [993] 1993-1998
Porsche 911 [993]
911 [RS] RS-RSR
Porsche 911 [RS]
911 [964] 1989-1993
Porsche 911 [964]
911 3.2 1983-1989
Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera
911 SC 1977-1983
Porsche 911 SC
911 [Early] 1964-1977
Porsche 911 [Early]
Boxster & Cayman
Porsche Boxster & Cayman
Cayenne & Panamera
Porsche Cayenne & Panamera

911uk Site Partners

Post new topic   Reply to topic
Author Message
T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15266
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squelch wrote:


jackliebling wrote:
Average price for a OPC advertised car used to be around £65k, now its £55k.


Sorry to be picky but that's not the case - currently there are seven 997 GTS's on the Porsche Approved website with an average price of £65,427.

There are three C4GTS's averaging £66,054 and four Carrera GTS's averaging £64,957.



That's not being picky, it's correcting a clearly erroneous post.

Thank you for saving me the effort. Thumb
_________________
2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Martian
Sepang


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 2913
Location: Bury St. Edmunds

2007 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:15 pm    Post subject: Re: GTS - worth the premium? Reply with quote

996Jane wrote:
.....Regardless of the one we choose, it will be PDK & 4wd......


NLW73 wrote:
.....I would go for the C2 version if I were you and manual........



Very Happy

You must listen to the woman! Laughing
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
HSC911
Long Beach


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 6367
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: GTS - worth the premium? Reply with quote

996Jane wrote:
...but keep being drawn to the GTS


Do it Thumb
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Luddite
Monza


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 187
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting topic 996Jane... Porschenomics..? Well here in the land of the faithful you are ever bound to be surrounded by all the fanboy (of which I am one) stuff, and I suspect economic realities may not not often be the primary concern. However there are some who have been kind enough to share their Porsche experiences from creating a specification and ordering processes through to resale some time later..?

I suspect for most folk sinking what for them may be a considerable amount of cash into a motor vehicle, the idea it might also have investment potential seems rather attractive and can go some way to off-setting considerations relative to the initial outlay..?

I also suspect with some Porsche GT cars, less can more, and the 70`s 911 2.7 RS might be considered one of the ultimate investment vehicles for a Porschophile, and as I remember, it`s interior was very basic compared to the more common 911`s of the time, much of that being down to the search to improve performance as the result of weight saving at the expense of comfort, though it also had it`s fair share of tricky stuff too.

Market forces seem to play their part and there can be no doubt that Porsche have taken every advantage in the value of promoting the marque in product placement etc. There was a time when sightings of Porsche cars were somewhat rarer than they have been for the last twenty or more years..? One of the basics of building and retaining market value can be rarity.. I also wonder at the market affect of the nomenclature relating to GT when considered relative to rarity and thus actual market value given there would seem to be rather a lot of GT`s around now, far more than ever there were 2.7RS cars..hmm?

The advantages of owning a GT rather than an "ordinary" Porsche.. well just the name badge on the least expensive Porsche will perhaps elevate an individual in the eyes of the general populace in some circumstances, perhaps not as the direct result of the many LeMans victories over the years, but more likely initially down to the media hype that pushed the yuppie lifestyle of those in the financial services industry in the 80`s on to TV shows and trough every other media source... ?

On the other hand some folk with automotive interests will differentiate between one Porsche and another in terms of perceptions of value, perhaps more so amongst Porsche enthusiasts there is bound to be an element of added cachet for a GT owner, and much of that may also feed through to the past and current market value of GT`s, though markets can be fickle and markets in general seem to be jittery for obvious reasons (i`m no economist) but it seems to me that to suggest a Porsche might be the best hedge if difficult times are ahead...hmm..?

Jimmy Choo shoes and perhaps a Hilde Palladino handbag might be hard to justify over the best available that M&S has on offer if one is just heading out to the shops or office etc. it seems they are highly valued in certain quarters.... trying not to be sexist... but in the same sort of evaluation process identified here often as "man maths" expensive Porsche purchases are justified for other than their actual normal usage, which I suspect may just be personal transport...?

While any or all of the above might go some way towards arriving at the decisions we make when buying a Porsche, they tend to have some sort of value variable built in that is likely to be outside our control or indeed our ability to predict accurately...?

However if ownership of a GT can bring you great personal joy and more so than an "ordinary" Porsche of any other description.... Then I suspect it can be a great investment, never more so if you can ever arrive at the stage where you consider the returns it has provided as the result of your usage of it during your ownership exceed it`s monetary/market value at any particular time.

Given the amount of money/indebtedness that folk might be involved with relative to Porsche "ownership", and the value they might place/depend upon in regard to residual or any other value relative to their personal financial plans, might just carry more risk than they care to imagine..? I suspect many Porsche owners like home owners place perhaps more value on those assets than they might actually be worth if/when a another crunch visits... watch out for the appearance of ...webuyanyporsche .com... Bandit Bandit Bandit

I guess following URL subject matter may be regarded as blasphemy in present company, but perhaps worth some consideration before TRASHING....? (-:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/buying-maintenance/a9982953/why-the-996-generation-porsche-911-will-never-be-collectible/

Just thinking in type, claiming zero expertise.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
jackliebling
Newbie


Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 11



PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
squelch wrote:


jackliebling wrote:
Average price for a OPC advertised car used to be around £65k, now its £55k.


Sorry to be picky but that's not the case - currently there are seven 997 GTS's on the Porsche Approved website with an average price of £65,427.

There are three C4GTS's averaging £66,054 and four Carrera GTS's averaging £64,957.



That's not being picky, it's correcting a clearly erroneous post.

Thank you for saving me the effort. Thumb


I wrote that post before checking the latest stock, you're right when looking at the latest stock. But these are new listings from Porsche and when they don't sell will be gradually reduced in price until they find a buyer, their usual tactic. The OPC stock for the last few months was pitched in the mid 50s and I can only assume that they found their market price and finally sold. Perhaps it was an end of year blip. Hexagon seem to have reduced prices by about 10k.

I also tried to shift my 997 GTS to several dealers (OPC and indy) who were not interested due to sticky stock towards the end of the year and I also listed it privately for £53k and i had only a couple of calls. Easier to buy than sell it seems!
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
squelch
Nürburgring


Joined: 05 Jun 2016
Posts: 439
Location: Bucks


PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jackliebling wrote:
The OPC stock for the last few months was pitched in the mid 50s

Well that's just nonsense - I'm a frequent visitor (probably twice a week or so) to the Porsche Approved site and 997 GTS's have NEVER been mid 50's. I recall the cheapest one I saw was a Cab at £57.9k with no sports chrono and iirc around 40k miles.

jackliebling wrote:
Hexagon seem to have reduced prices by about 10k.

Indeed, Hexagon have reduced the price of their stock in the last few months, including their Turbo / S stock (which they have always had more overpriced than anything else they keep) - maybe they're on their way to joining the rest of us here on planet Earth.

jackliebling wrote:
I also tried to shift my 997 GTS to several dealers (OPC and indy) who were not interested due to sticky stock towards the end of the year and I also listed it privately for £53k and i had only a couple of calls. Easier to buy than sell it seems!

I don't know your car and these can be spec sensitive, but £53k seems very cheap indeed. Did you sell it?
_________________
From Stuttgart: 997 GTS, 997 GT3 (Kermit)
From Munich: 535d M Touring
From Bologne: Ducati Superlight
Gone but not forgotten: 996 C4S, 964, 924
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Tobyone
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 275
Location: Somewhere else


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly more 991GTS cars for sale on Porsche uk than 997 GTS models.
Am I right in saying the ride is no different to non GTS models?
Obviously no counting GT3's
_________________
997.1 C4s GT Silver, factory Aerokit
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
askgeez
Barcelona


Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1445
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The GTS, as mentioned it’s a “parts bin special”, but they are far from just cosmetic parts. It has a wider track, steering is beautifully balanced . Power kit with just 23 bhp over an “S”, but different intake apparently for improved torque range Dont know I was amazed to read so many positive reviews when I researched buying mine 18 months ago, eg Evo mag.

I met Lee Sibley, editor of Total 911 about a week before I bought mine. I asked his honest opinion on 991 s or 997 GTS .... he said “100% GTS , its a fantastic car”. Now as a bloke who has driven pretty much every variant, that sealed it for me.

It’s the same running gear as the £400k sport classic, at a fifth of the price Floor

I added a DSC module which enhanced the ride, and a fabspeed x pipe which makes it howl ! thumbsup

I love a 4s * , and it’s all the 911 most of us would need (in a daily), But in my opinion, it’s worth the premium. I wouldn’t go as far as saying “investment“ or “future classic “ there are too many made.



* I know of a very clean , below average mileage, 997.2 C4s PDK coupe that the owner wants to offload. Domestic issues frustrated

He only bought last year from mid sussex and hence still has lots of OPC warranty remaining . Also a lovely set of sport classics with winter tyres
_________________
997.2 GT3 coupe Manual (03/19 >)
911 SC Targa Manual (04/19 >)
997.2 GTS coupe PDK (06/17-02/19)
997.1 C4s coupe Manual (04/15-06/17)
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
996Jane
Newbie


Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 30



PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

askgeez wrote:




* I know of a very clean , below average mileage, 997.2 C4s PDK coupe that the owner wants to offload. Domestic issues frustrated

He only bought last year from mid sussex and hence still has lots of OPC warranty remaining . Also a lovely set of sport classics with winter tyres


Interesting - any more details? Colour, history etc?
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
jackliebling
Newbie


Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 11



PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

squelch wrote:
jackliebling wrote:
The OPC stock for the last few months was pitched in the mid 50s

Well that's just nonsense - I'm a frequent visitor (probably twice a week or so) to the Porsche Approved site and 997 GTS's have NEVER been mid 50's. I recall the cheapest one I saw was a Cab at £57.9k with no sports chrono and iirc around 40k miles.

jackliebling wrote:
Hexagon seem to have reduced prices by about 10k.

Indeed, Hexagon have reduced the price of their stock in the last few months, including their Turbo / S stock (which they have always had more overpriced than anything else they keep) - maybe they're on their way to joining the rest of us here on planet Earth.

jackliebling wrote:
I also tried to shift my 997 GTS to several dealers (OPC and indy) who were not interested due to sticky stock towards the end of the year and I also listed it privately for £53k and i had only a couple of calls. Easier to buy than sell it seems!

I don't know your car and these can be spec sensitive, but £53k seems very cheap indeed. Did you sell it?


Ok, well it's your word against mine. In December there were several 997 GTS on Porsche website listed for 54-57k, they have all sold. My car didn't sell privately, some chancer offered me £46k. Last week a well known Indy wanted to list my mint car on SOR with 42000 miles for £53k. No way I'd let it go for that (given their near £5k fee) so I'm hoping to keep it longer to wait for spring.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Tobyone
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 275
Location: Somewhere else


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you seen the amount of 991 GTS cars for sale on Porsche UK site?
Loads
_________________
997.1 C4s GT Silver, factory Aerokit
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
askgeez
Barcelona


Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1445
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

996Jane wrote:
askgeez wrote:




* I know of a very clean , below average mileage, 997.2 C4s PDK coupe that the owner wants to offload. Domestic issues frustrated

He only bought last year from mid sussex and hence still has lots of OPC warranty remaining . Also a lovely set of sport classics with winter tyres


Interesting - any more details? Colour, history etc?


Basalt black ,PDK , Full OPC history, sports exhaust . 48k miles.
_________________
997.2 GT3 coupe Manual (03/19 >)
911 SC Targa Manual (04/19 >)
997.2 GTS coupe PDK (06/17-02/19)
997.1 C4s coupe Manual (04/15-06/17)
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
996Jane
Newbie


Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 30



PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

askgeez wrote:






Basalt black ,PDK , Full OPC history, sports exhaust . 48k miles.


Cheers for that but I think we’ve decided to go with a GTS 👍
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
tom_nieto
Monza


Joined: 08 Jan 2017
Posts: 228



PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speculating over future values for investment purposes for anything that isn’t a GT car is totally pointless. Whilst I think these are very special cars, Porsche made an awful lot of them and a lot of people take very good care of them. If you’re willing to lock it in a barn for half a century, then that’s slightly different to actually driving it. Adding mileage = losing money. We’ve been totally brainwashed by the speculators flipping GT cars for a few years and the relatively good economic climate has meant that regular sports cars have held their prices.

Buy the one you like and enjoy the extremely low depreciation. Take the good advice of the other posters in this thread that the GTS is worth the premium as the spec is usually a lot better than the average C4S.

If you want to buy a car for an investment with your cash, a 996 GT3 might be better. Similarly your cash would get you one hell of a nice Mezger engined turbo car in either 996 or 997 guise which would be where my £60k would go (if I didn’t get distracted by a V10 manual R8 )!

In all seriousness, have you looked into the 997 turbo?
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
FZP
Paul Ricard


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 3249
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some additional info
https://www.total911.com/search/buyers+guide
Scroll down to find the GTS section
_________________
997.2 Carrera 2S GT Silver/Cocoa.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
spongebob squarepants
Shanghai


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 4966
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jackliebling wrote:
squelch wrote:
jackliebling wrote:
The OPC stock for the last few months was pitched in the mid 50s

Well that's just nonsense - I'm a frequent visitor (probably twice a week or so) to the Porsche Approved site and 997 GTS's have NEVER been mid 50's. I recall the cheapest one I saw was a Cab at £57.9k with no sports chrono and iirc around 40k miles.

jackliebling wrote:
Hexagon seem to have reduced prices by about 10k.

Indeed, Hexagon have reduced the price of their stock in the last few months, including their Turbo / S stock (which they have always had more overpriced than anything else they keep) - maybe they're on their way to joining the rest of us here on planet Earth.

jackliebling wrote:
I also tried to shift my 997 GTS to several dealers (OPC and indy) who were not interested due to sticky stock towards the end of the year and I also listed it privately for £53k and i had only a couple of calls. Easier to buy than sell it seems!

I don't know your car and these can be spec sensitive, but £53k seems very cheap indeed. Did you sell it?


Ok, well it's your word against mine. In December there were several 997 GTS on Porsche website listed for 54-57k, they have all sold. My car didn't sell privately, some chancer offered me £46k. Last week a well known Indy wanted to list my mint car on SOR with 42000 miles for £53k. No way I'd let it go for that (given their near £5k fee) so I'm hoping to keep it longer to wait for spring.


And mine never seen GTS at that price at OPC, even cabs or high milers....
_________________

991 C2S X51 powerkit PDK in racing yellow, PCCB, PDCC, PSE, Sports design kit, ducktail.
EX 997.2 Carrera 4S PDK
EX 997.2 Carrera S PDK
EX 993 C2 manual in guards red
EX 997 C2 gen 2 PDK
EX 993 Targa
EX 993 Carrera 4 manual
EX 996 3.4 Cabriolet
 
  
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
   
996Jane
Newbie


Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 30



PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tom_nieto wrote:


In all seriousness, have you looked into the 997 turbo?


Only half seriously, as assumed it might be a bit hard work as a daily driver?
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
tom_nieto
Monza


Joined: 08 Jan 2017
Posts: 228



PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

996Jane wrote:
tom_nieto wrote:


In all seriousness, have you looked into the 997 turbo?


Only half seriously, as assumed it might be a bit hard work as a daily driver?


4WD and tiptronic would make a lovely daily drive. The suspension is no harder and the driving characteristics are fairly similar throughout the range. The main difference is that it’s a proper rocket ship and still keeps up with a lot of new super cars. Sure, there’s an argument about turbo vs NA character, but the DFI NA engine arguably lost some character over previous iterations of the flat six. Honestly, you can pop to the shops just as easily in a turbo as a NA 911. You just don’t quite reach warp speed as quickly in the NA cars! I’d see if you can test drive one.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15266
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tom_nieto wrote:
996Jane wrote:
tom_nieto wrote:


In all seriousness, have you looked into the 997 turbo?


Only half seriously, as assumed it might be a bit hard work as a daily driver?


4WD and tiptronic would make a lovely daily drive. The suspension is no harder and the driving characteristics are fairly similar throughout the range. The main difference is that it’s a proper rocket ship and still keeps up with a lot of new super cars. Sure, there’s an argument about turbo vs NA character, but the DFI NA engine arguably lost some character over previous iterations of the flat six. Honestly, you can pop to the shops just as easily in a turbo as a NA 911. You just don’t quite reach warp speed as quickly in the NA cars! I’d see if you can test drive one.


Yeah and if you want a really nice one, check this out.

FOR SALE ---> Full Porsche Service History and 12 months OPC Warranty for under £50k
_________________
2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Rhodris-dad
Hockenheim


Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 637
Location: RHYL

2015 Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lenny39 wrote:
I went through exactly the same thought process C4S or GTS. I ended up deciding on a C4S, I couldn't justify the extra £20K on a daily. If I spent the extra £20K I think I would always worry about the depreciation due to clocking up the miles, less concerned on a lower value car. I've had garage queens before and didn't want another.

When I looked the GTS seemed very spec sensitive. Some up for sale have been around for a long time.


Very valid point regarding the mileage...........

Doing 5k a year will maintain the premium but if you stick 10k a year on it, the residual value will certainly take a hit.

I'm not a mileage snob (no offence to anyone) but you have to face the reality of the British market....an extra 20k on the same age car can devalue the car by a significant amount and to some degree it's desirability.

There is a perception that a car with mileage 50k has got to be better than one with 70k.
Which I think is tosh really.
_________________
2015 991.1 C4GTS PDK
2010 997 C4S PDK sold
2003 996 C2 Tip sold
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   All times are GMT - 12 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum