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rc944
Trainee


Joined: 13 Dec 2018
Posts: 54



PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:50 pm    Post subject: Modding a 993 for more focus Reply with quote

Most seem to go down the homage to RS route but are there other avenues to explore.

I'm wondering if its viable to spend say 40 on the car and then say 20 to get it modded to suit a fast road and occasional track day use

My issue is that my daily is putting out 300 plus bhp and 0-60 so whilst i am not looking for something terminally quick (the above being slow by todays standards) i want it to feel a bit more focused than a boggo 993 would

I anticipate directing the budget towards suspension upgrades and weight reduction but in a way that i could revert the car back to standard

im not sure ill get bang for buck in throwing money at the engine whereas i could make the car feel a bit more agile and focused by spending on the other areas?
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tyinsky
Hockenheim


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 661
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as the base car is decent £20k sounds a great budget. Suspension, bit of an interior strip maybe with the RS carpets and door cards. Wayne remap (although I think he has probably done most of them out there!), maybe some buckets. Or leave the seats and put it towards a top end with different cams.
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 12767
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you put in you won't get back as most buyers (the sandal wearing type) want originality in a 993. Making a 993 to 'look like' something it isn't will usually result in you being black-balled by the Illuminati club members and a liberal dosing of tar and feathers if you persist. what

WB cars never get tinkered with outside of original stuff albeit the various attempts to mask the all moody blue interior (dash/wheel) that some have seems popular nooo

964 buyers have a different approach and a lot of C2 are modded for track/fast road use and they seem to have more appeal come re-sale.

There's only one 993 owner I know who drives his 'up to and beyond the limits' as a daily driver. Step forward HPNer worship
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Alfa Romeo’s 4C is everything a Italian sports-car should be: it’s gorgeous to the point of pornography, distinctive enough that nobody will ever mistake it for a Porsche, handles like it’s on rails and steers like a kart.
 
  
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Sutton
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 300
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see where you're coming from as I find the standard 993 a bit soft and more of a grand tourer than I would like. However, the 993's refinement is also a boon for longer journeys, so I'm not sure I would want to lose all of that either.

I don't think massive power is what air cooled 911's are about anyway. For me, it's about the tactility and responses underneath and around.

So, areas I would look at are:
- fast road suspension geometry (RS spec to improve handling. We can't achieve the camber with our standard top mounts though)
- front strut brace (sharpens initial turn in quite considerably)
- light weight flywheel (improved engine response)
- exhaust (sport cat and reduced silencing for better sound and a bit more power via the cat)
- lightweight forged alloy wheels (improves handling, rolling start and stopping)
- RS wheel carriers (reduces bump steer at RS ride height, although arguably not needed if you don't feel it)

These should come in well under £20k.

If you want to push the boat out, there's always the Motorsport aluminium bonnet and a lithium battery.
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Sutton
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 300
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, as part of the geometry set up, try reducing the KT to 3.5 or even 3. The lower the number, the faster the car will turn into the corner. 3 seems to be the limit for most. The disadvantage will be reduced high speed stability ie more twitchiness if you saw away at the wheel.
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1994 993 C4
 
  
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vroomvroom
Montreal


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
Posts: 530
Location: Wilmslow


PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might be best to buy one has had far too much money thrown at it already


this sold in a few weeks.....


http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=129864&highlight=
 
  
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rc944
Trainee


Joined: 13 Dec 2018
Posts: 54



PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im quite drawn to the drama and romance of doing it my way in my own time (and my young boys')!
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968 cs (sold)
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cableguy
Kyalami


Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 1967
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rc944 wrote:
im quite drawn to the drama and romance of doing it my way in my own time (and my young boys')!


Good on you and my thoughts too.

My cars going a similar route, a little weight loss, full suspension refresh & drop, cats & exhaust, interior change, remap etc. Its end result will be a fast & fun road car.

Good luck with the project. Thumb

C.
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Leosayer
Montreal


Joined: 11 Nov 2006
Posts: 517
Location: NE London

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bucket seats are an instead 10kg weight saving per seat, are easily installed and reversible and can be easily sold on.

They really key you into what the car is doing letting you concentrate on the drive. I've got GT3 seats which fit nicely.
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1996 C2 Coupe, Polar Silver, Manual
 
  
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Endoman
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 1351
Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's so easy to get carried away and 20k can disappear quite quickly.
Apart from a Wayne rechip (potential 300bhp) I would leave the engine alone.
Lower, stiffer, lighter.
I would go for KW3 or PSS1O's, Rennline top mounts and don't go lower than RS +10 unless you get the RS front uprights.
Upgrade suspension bushes to ER hard and replace anything worn.
Strip the interior and fit a a pair of decent seats (Pole Position)
LWF (drops 0-60 dramatically) and RS short shift with Golden Rod is almost a must.
Std brakes are fine if in good condition.
Get Gert to do the RSR conversion on the silencers (it'll sound quicker) as will drilling a few holes in the air box.
You'll still have some change to get some decent track day tyres and a spare set of wheels.
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HPNer
Hockenheim


Joined: 25 Jun 2014
Posts: 734
Location: Jolly Boyos Country


PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zingari wrote:


There's only one 993 owner I know who drives his 'up to and beyond the limits' as a daily driver. Step forward HPNer worship


After many years of trying to get my car to be agile and feel tight (as opposed to the sloppy thing it was when I bought it), its quite quick enough for UK roads (in Wales anyway) the following is some of the stuff I've placed on my daily driver,in no particular order;
Goldenrod
Shortshift kit
Ohlin's fully adjustable (prototype) Road & Track Coil-overs
Turret cross brace
Bloody thick front anti-roll bar
GT2 Evo 2 (unobtainium) rubber free steering components
RS engine mounts
Cargraphic RS/Cup exhausts (by Thomas Schnarr)
Light weight flywheel etc
MPL Clutch Slave
Wayne Re-map (showing 313bhp - but all smoke and mirrors IMHO)
Big Reds all round
All new electrical sensors, anti-knock sensors, dizzies and leads.
Removal of all PA and other after market Alarm crap (just original Porsche factory alarm) with Tore-B remote entry.
RS-Momo steering wheel.
Full Southbound interior refurb in Nappa.
Scuttle, sills, and chassis rails all sorted, new wings for good measure as slightly corroded.
Full bare metal respray in Riviera Blue
All maintained by the good Dr down at Devizes.
Plus other things I've probably forgotten!

It now drives like it should have, and probably a lot better than new. It handles remarkably well and is super compliant on its 17" Cup 2s, it flies to 6250 in each gear still maxes out at what it should and is a delight, over 110,000 miles and climbing weekly. Puts a smile on my face whatever the weather . . .

Thumb
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Today, I shall mostly be driving my 993 . . .
-------
You've bought the ticket, so take the ride . . .
Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...
 
  
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IMI A
Suzuka


Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 1173
Location: KHI


PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HPNer wrote:
Zingari wrote:


There's only one 993 owner I know who drives his 'up to and beyond the limits' as a daily driver. Step forward HPNer worship


After many years of trying to get my car to be agile and feel tight (as opposed to the sloppy thing it was when I bought it), its quite quick enough for UK roads (in Wales anyway) the following is some of the stuff I've placed on my daily driver,in no particular order;
Goldenrod
Shortshift kit
Ohlin's fully adjustable (prototype) Road & Track Coil-overs
Turret cross brace
Bloody thick front anti-roll bar
GT2 Evo 2 (unobtainium) rubber free steering components
RS engine mounts
Cargraphic RS/Cup exhausts (by Thomas Schnarr)
Light weight flywheel etc
MPL Clutch Slave
Wayne Re-map (showing 313bhp - but all smoke and mirrors IMHO)
Big Reds all round
All new electrical sensors, anti-knock sensors, dizzies and leads.
Removal of all PA and other after market Alarm crap (just original Porsche factory alarm) with Tore-B remote entry.
RS-Momo steering wheel.
Full Southbound interior refurb in Nappa.
Scuttle, sills, and chassis rails all sorted, new wings for good measure as slightly corroded.
Full bare metal respray in Riviera Blue
All maintained by the good Dr down at Devizes.
Plus other things I've probably forgotten!

It now drives like it should have, and probably a lot better than new. It handles remarkably well and is super compliant on its 17" Cup 2s, it flies to 6250 in each gear still maxes out at what it should and is a delight, over 110,000 miles and climbing weekly. Puts a smile on my face whatever the weather . . .

Thumb


Why do you think the 313hp smoke and mirrors. Mine has a Ninemeister 3.8 and I'm really looking forward to seeing what she makes on the Maha dyno at Litchfield Motorsport in next few months thumbsup
 
  
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HPNer
Hockenheim


Joined: 25 Jun 2014
Posts: 734
Location: Jolly Boyos Country


PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slightly tongue in cheek perhaps in saying smoke and mirrors, but comparing dyno readings always seems to be a hiding to nothing. Mine has been on a number of different dyno's over the years, 300 bhp, pre-Wayne and 313 post Wayne. That does seem very strong for a non-VR engine.
Of course all these horses are only available at the very top-end of the rev range.On the non-VR the cams come in at around 4,000 so one gets a healthy dose of torque to 5500, and from there the power allows one to slice through the air to 165 mph or thereabouts
Thumb Grin
_________________
Today, I shall mostly be driving my 993 . . .
-------
You've bought the ticket, so take the ride . . .
Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death...
 
  
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Tobesetc
Albert Park


Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 1546
Location: West London, UK


PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to agree with what nearly everyone above has said.

For what it's worth, the utterly Non-Illuminati view... In order of improvement to feel that I have experienced, this is what I recommend:

=1) Wayne remap. Much freer rev-ing.
=1) Suspension refresh @ CG. Honestly, I still cannot believe the change this has created - my car now feels awesome (and my license is in great jeopardy).
3) Lightweight wheels (try getting an Illuminati to agree with this one!). They have a fabulous impact on handling/feel via reduced un-sprung weight. You'll be a convert after your first corner. Easy to switch about if you want to go back to the stock anchors Wink You won't.
4) Gert Carnewall "RSR" exhaust mod. I'm sure that there isn't any actual power gain, but by-heck does it sound like there is!

The other changes that improve the feel are a nice steering wheel (either refresh existing or change) and ditto gear knob. I think sound-deadening improves the ambience - others disagree.
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993 C4, Coupe '94 manual
Previous - '03 986 Boxster S
 
  
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rc944
Trainee


Joined: 13 Dec 2018
Posts: 54



PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HPNer wrote:
Zingari wrote:


There's only one 993 owner I know who drives his 'up to and beyond the limits' as a daily driver. Step forward HPNer worship


After many years of trying to get my car to be agile and feel tight (as opposed to the sloppy thing it was when I bought it), its quite quick enough for UK roads (in Wales anyway) the following is some of the stuff I've placed on my daily driver,in no particular order;
Goldenrod
Shortshift kit
Ohlin's fully adjustable (prototype) Road & Track Coil-overs
Turret cross brace
Bloody thick front anti-roll bar
GT2 Evo 2 (unobtainium) rubber free steering components
RS engine mounts
Cargraphic RS/Cup exhausts (by Thomas Schnarr)
Light weight flywheel etc
MPL Clutch Slave
Wayne Re-map (showing 313bhp - but all smoke and mirrors IMHO)
Big Reds all round
All new electrical sensors, anti-knock sensors, dizzies and leads.
Removal of all PA and other after market Alarm crap (just original Porsche factory alarm) with Tore-B remote entry.
RS-Momo steering wheel.
Full Southbound interior refurb in Nappa.
Scuttle, sills, and chassis rails all sorted, new wings for good measure as slightly corroded.
Full bare metal respray in Riviera Blue
All maintained by the good Dr down at Devizes.
Plus other things I've probably forgotten!

It now drives like it should have, and probably a lot better than new. It handles remarkably well and is super compliant on its 17" Cup 2s, it flies to 6250 in each gear still maxes out at what it should and is a delight, over 110,000 miles and climbing weekly. Puts a smile on my face whatever the weather . . .

Thumb


Awesome. Please share some pics!
_________________
997.1 gt3 (pending)
964 c4 (sold)
968 cs (sold)
944 s2 (sold)
 
  
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RobIpswichUK
Watkins Glen


Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 2018
Location: Ipswich (at a guess!)

1994 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whole thread on the changes on HPNer's awesome Riviera/Can Can Red 993
http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=103102
_________________
Rob
'94 C2 Iris Blue (+ White Stripes!) Cup 2's, Big Ovals, FSD's/Eibach, OMP Strut Brace, 200 Cell Powerspeed Cats, 1.75" Hollamby Exhaust bypass, Carnewal FPB.
Mercedes SL (R230 lowered + AMG wheels)
Range Rover Sport V8 (L320 chipped)
TT Roadster (standard - wife’s daily!)
W211 E320CDI Barge (must not forget - NEED TO SELL!)
E91 320d SE Touring (must not forget - NEED TO SELL!)
 
  
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HSC911
Long Beach


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 6456
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good luck to you Thumb
 
  
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IMI A
Suzuka


Joined: 02 Aug 2014
Posts: 1173
Location: KHI


PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HPNer wrote:
Slightly tongue in cheek perhaps in saying smoke and mirrors, but comparing dyno readings always seems to be a hiding to nothing. Mine has been on a number of different dyno's over the years, 300 bhp, pre-Wayne and 313 post Wayne. That does seem very strong for a non-VR engine.
Of course all these horses are only available at the very top-end of the rev range.On the non-VR the cams come in at around 4,000 so one gets a healthy dose of torque to 5500, and from there the power allows one to slice through the air to 165 mph or thereabouts
Thumb Grin


I take dynos with a pinch of salt too but fun to see what the Litchfield Maha dyno reads power at. This is the dyno Porsche and Manthey also use - read Ninemeisters air cooled power claim threads on Rennlist/PH with interest over the years hence it will be v.interesting to see what an engine they finished roughly 15,000 miles/2 or 3 yrs ago is still putting out. Should hopefully now be nicely run in. When I drove the car last year it definitely felt more urgent than a stock 964 C2 engine although I'll still be pleasantly surprised if its a whopping 80bhp more than my old 964 C2 ie the 330bhp Ninemeister claim. Will stick a stock 991 turbo s and 9e 997 turbo on too in order to make sure the dyno is reading accurately on the day thumbsup
 
  
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wozy
Österreich


Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 889
Location: Worcestershire


PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Underlating fast point to point A & B roads, upgrade the suspension to Konis and the arbs , save a tonne of weight by fitting race seats and then head off into the hills/mountains.

The standard 993 has more than enough power for an exciting drive. Modern big hp gains are protected by all kinds of electronic gizmos ..... so what’s the point, plus they are so well engineered that they do not feel fast unless your seriously tanking it.

Get Gert to RSR your silencers , fit the RS steering wheel and shifter then head off out and enjoy Thumb
_________________
Porsche Cars of Great Britain launched the 993 in the UK in early December 1993 registering 12 x UK cars on the 6th & 7th of that month; mine is one of them.

993 C2. MBM. C4 mounts, RSRs, RS Short shifter. RS steering wheel. FSDs & M033s
Previous 2.7S, 3.2, 964 and 968CS
 
  
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berni29
Watkins Glen


Joined: 24 Oct 2009
Posts: 2182
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

My cheapish mods to my 993 Tip:

ER RS spec bushes front and rear (all of them).
Welded front steering arms (so solid like 964s)
Wayne remap with 100 cell sports cats (Gert) in the standard enclosure.
Bilsteins with Standard 029 springs but set at sport height by COGravity.
Atiwe steering wheel with buttons for changes.
Polybushed roll bars.
Big front strut brace.

It drives nicely.

Berni
_________________
993 C2 Tip 1994 187k miles. Black and Grey. M029 & Bilstein HD's, Elephant Racing RS bushes F&R, RS mounts, strengthened engine carrier, 100 cell cat inserts, HID's. Solid steering arms mod, top of the engine rebuilt, mapped by Wayne, suspension set up by Chris.
 
  
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