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Jhayward
Newbie


Joined: 15 Sep 2018
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:24 pm    Post subject: Flat battery again Reply with quote

Hi
I had a flat battery the other day so placed the old charger on., but after removing charger I have now noticed that the headlight switch surround seem to always be illuminated also my wipers can be operated with out having keys in the ignition. Only owned the car for a few months and all has been great untill flat battery. Was wondering if all is normal or I have an electrical gremlin which may have caused flat battery.

Thanks Jon.
 
  
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bakerboy4s
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 06 Jun 2015
Posts: 256
Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jon
Beyond me but DeMort will probably come along with the answer!
 
  
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thecarfixer
Monza


Joined: 03 Nov 2016
Posts: 166



PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Flat battery again Reply with quote

Jhayward wrote:
Hi
I had a flat battery the other day so placed the old charger on., but after removing charger I have now noticed that the headlight switch surround seem to always be illuminated also my wipers can be operated with out having keys in the ignition. Only owned the car for a few months and all has been great untill flat battery. Was wondering if all is normal or I have an electrical gremlin which may have caused flat battery.

Thanks Jon.


Replace the switch part of the ignition switch (i.e. not the lock).
 
  
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6790
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah

For me i would replace the entire ignition lock .. there have been a few problems mentioned on here about the wrong or a different electric block just being replaced .
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Jhayward
Newbie


Joined: 15 Sep 2018
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi just liked through my paperwork and the car had a new ignition switch in June this year, is it possible that it's failed already.
 
  
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6790
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aghhh .. this is more complicated then ..

Wipers cant work without a key in the ignition and switched on , again illumination cant happen .. if the ignition switch has been replaced (and this is the main cause of things like this ) then its a garage job im afraid .

If your handy with a voltmeter then the wiring diagrams can be found here .. along with the rest of the workshop manuals ..

http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=83491

Illumination could be related to a faulty headlight switch but not the wiper fault .

Gut feeling is a sticking relay but im afraid its a case of out with the meter and start testing things .

The car locks ok on the fob i take it ?
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Jhayward
Newbie


Joined: 15 Sep 2018
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi thanks for reply, everything works great lock and unlocks with the fob drove it the other day all good then it sat on my drive for two days, When I got home from work i heard the alarm going off which unfortunately run battery flat, I tried charging battery through the fuse box terminal and door post for earth as couldn't open bonnet. Later managed to connect othe car battery via jump leads to open bonnet and charged battery over night, I haven't driven car since, as was going out armed with multimeter at weekend when I have more time and daylight.
 
  
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6790
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the car locks ok on the fob then the car knows the ignition key has been removed .. ignition lock if not .. we are basically into a fault traceing mission atm from what i can see .

With out being able to see the car then this is pretty much the hardest problem to find .

If you are ok with wiring diagrams and volt meters and want to tackle this your self then im happy to assist .

You may after all just have a battery discharge .. wishfull thinking on my part i feel Smile

Im only here from 7-9 pm btw .
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Ghianightmare
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 25 Apr 2017
Posts: 330
Location: Dublin


PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

De mort - do you use an oscilloscope in your day job on problems like this or just a voltmeter? I’m just curiois as I have been reading up on them and watching YouTube videos. If I had the money, I would buy my own pico scope.

@jon - If you are in need of professional help, find a guy like Frank Massey http://www.ads-automotive.co.uk/project/vehicle-diagnostic-experts/

I don’t know anyhthong about him apart from what I have seen and read online, but If I was anywhere near Preston and I had a similar problem where the solution wasn’t obvious, I’d take it to him.
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6790
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Young man !!!!

Asking me about tools is the same as phoneing me and having to listen to me waffle on for hours about the fault or Porsche in general Floor

Long post coming i feel ..

Pico scope .. excellent bit of kit but not cheap .. you tend to start at about 1K then go up from there ..

There are several things you would use a scope for depending on the age of the car ..
If we are talking air cooled then pretty much only for a non start and to check the CPS sensor which to be fair there are other ways of checking so not really usefull .

When we come to the later cars though .. 997 onwards then some items are not just a 12V on / off they use something called a PWM signal .. this is a varing voltage / ampage so kinda like a throttle but with electricity .. the more you give it the faster the item will run .

Its also between 20 - 80 % as below or above that indicates a short on the wiring .. ie short to positive = 12 volts constant so a flat line and nothing is an open circuit .

I have to admit though i dont use a scope very often , most times i have other ways of checking but the newer the car then the more need to have and use a scope .

Im not sure for a Diy you would find much use for it ..but if like me you like to collect tools then go for it Very Happy

Now then .. a scope is not really of any use when traceing things like battery faults / battery discharge or just general A to B circuits .

For this its a volt meter .. now to give you some idea .. i actually have 5 voltmeters .. x1 is an analog meter so its a needle that moves .. this is mainly for the older cars that have a fault code read out thats a blink code .. a digital meter is a bit hard to use for this but an analog is perfect .

Ok the other 4 .. one is sentimental and not really used (it was £500 when i bought it and i cant throw it away after 20 years ! ) .. anyways thats a Fluke meter .. some of the best in the business to be honest .

I have a cheap £20 one but it can take 20 amps which is why i got it .. nothing worse than checking for a drain and the alarm trips .. it will blow the normal 10 amp fuse in meters and that tends to be about £15 per fuse .. i have to pay for that so you see the problem !!!

My latest is a snap on one .. not cheap but things like Hz and duty cycle can be usefull .. think PWM .. duty cycle Smile

I also spent a good chunk of money on an attachment for it .. i can now check amps upto 30 !! bear in mind if a Cayenne alarm trips its about 26 amps so for these cars its a god send .

Anyways .. to the point .. if im looking for a battery discharge i use an amp hound ..

A scope is of no use on this problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pM5qV6ge2vA

Very easy to identify which fuse the drain is on useing this .. then its onto the wiring diagrams to nail it down further .

Its also excellent at finding blown fuses so some times i just use it for that and quickly run over the fuseboard as a fast check .. no need to search diagrams and waste time as this is quicker .

This is kinda my secret weapon at work as no one else has one and it makes life SOO much easier Very Happy

Us Mechanics have to buy our own tools .. so not every one will invest to a great degree ... my kit has to be in the region of £20K by now !
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Jhayward
Newbie


Joined: 15 Sep 2018
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi back again. I have been to the porsche specialist this morning and he is unfortunately booked up until February. He did check my battery and said due to windscreen wipers being able to work with no ignition key in was strange and recommended a new switch, which is a cheap start and I can carry out the work myself, but when I disconnected the earth from the battery the alarm went off even though I had the key with ignition on (dash lights on). Is this normal for the alarm to activate and if so should it go off after a few seconds as I don't know if it's safe to change ignition switch while the battery is fully connected or if it's going to set off the alarm again.
Anymore advice would be great. I have left the car on trickle charge but unable to lock car as extension lead runs to bonnet.
 
  
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Pickse
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 20 Jul 2013
Posts: 360
Location: Fleet, Hants


PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run the extension through the top of the bonnet by the wipers.
You can close and lock it then.

btw. I'm following with interest as I have a similar problem.
But mine is ok one week but not the next.
I have an AmpHound or order.
If I come up with anything I'll let you know.
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Pickse
-----------------
03 Arctic Silver 996T Tip S
Now 9E38 - An improved! 996T
-----------------
 
  
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Jhayward
Newbie


Joined: 15 Sep 2018
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the tip, also just looked up amp hound looks like a great piece of kit.
 
  
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thecarfixer
Monza


Joined: 03 Nov 2016
Posts: 166



PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jhayward wrote:
Hi back again. I have been to the porsche specialist this morning and he is unfortunately booked up until February. He did check my battery and said due to windscreen wipers being able to work with no ignition key in was strange and recommended a new switch, which is a cheap start and I can carry out the work myself, but when I disconnected the earth from the battery the alarm went off even though I had the key with ignition on (dash lights on). Is this normal for the alarm to activate and if so should it go off after a few seconds as I don't know if it's safe to change ignition switch while the battery is fully connected or if it's going to set off the alarm again.
Anymore advice would be great. I have left the car on trickle charge but unable to lock car as extension lead runs to bonnet.


Interesting that the alarm went off - it shouldn't if all is well. I'd definitely be checking that the ignition switch behaves as it ought to.
 
  
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Jhayward
Newbie


Joined: 15 Sep 2018
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi guys I have a 2002 996 is this the correct switch part number 4A0905849B and are there any recommendations as I have seen some for around £10-£15 pounds thought that sounds too cheap, not that I'm moaning.
 
  
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6790
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again i agree with thecarfixer .. this is the most obvious item that has failed ..

Strange that it has been replaced and im guessing just prior to it being sold .. makes me wonder if this was the reason the car was sold Question

ignition on and as you say dash lights on then the alarm should not trip when disconnecting the battery .. basically the alarm control unit doesnt know the position of the ignition lock .

You can change the ignition lock with the battery connected .. ive done .. one or two shall we say and never disconnect the battery .

I differ from others here in that i always change the entire lock with a Porsche only ignition lock .. there have been a few posts here about the electric block not working correctly when replaced on its own .

One check please although your sysptoms are totall wrong for this but just check the alarm control unit (under the passenger seat ) is dry .. check the carpets behind the passenger seat as well .. make sure that again they are dry .

Last thing .. were abouts in the country are you ? no where near Brighton i take it ?


EDIT ..

PM Delanor .. he found the correct block after the first one wasnt any good .
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Mechanic

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Jhayward
Newbie


Joined: 15 Sep 2018
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sudbury suffolk I'm about two hours away I'm afraid. But thanks I'll order a new switch first . Was the part number correct 4A0905849B.
 
  
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6790
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to PM Delanor .. the first one he bought didnt work correctly , he found the correct one .. for me im afraid i just fit Porsche parts so cant help here .
_________________
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My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target see Here

Thank you all so Very much .

Mechanic

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Now At An Indy.
 
  
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thecarfixer
Monza


Joined: 03 Nov 2016
Posts: 166



PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to agree as well! (sound like politicians here) in that I'd be wanting to thoroughly check all connections are sound (and clean/not corroded) with the alarm control unit, as well as the ignition switch as it's been disturbed recently with a replacement.

It's impossible to diagnose through t'interweb, and substituting parts in an effort to fix the issue can start to get expensive...

If you're not too comfortable going through checking connectivity and following circuit diagrams, a good/well regarded auto spark should have you up and running properly in no time..
 
  
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Jhayward
Newbie


Joined: 15 Sep 2018
Posts: 12



PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a quick update. I finally got around to fitting a new exide premium battery and new ignition switch, all faults disappeared and enjoying being able to sleep at night knowing the neighbours are not being woken by my car alarm. It's a very happy Christmas
 



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