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PorscheTurbo996London
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Joined: 27 Nov 2018
Posts: 5



PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:24 pm    Post subject: SC Buying Advice Reply with quote

I am Looking to p/ex my 996 TT for a 1980 911sc
The car has had a Documented Engine and Geabox Rebuild,New exhaust system and professional Glass out Respray and the suspension renewed and is immaculate.In terms of Service history there are Quite a few invoices detailing the work done and costs etc.The original Service book has been mislaid over the years so there are only the Invoices.As the car has had all the above work done and drives faultlessly according to the Seller is the lack of this service record going to substantially affect the value and sailability of the vehicle if I ever want to move it on down the line? Question
 
  
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deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7285
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have an invoice saying it has been serviced then thats better than a stamp imho .. an invoice will show whats been done , the cost and the advisory items (these tell a customer an awfull lot about how the car has been looked after ) .... a stamp in a book is just that .. i can get a stamp made for peanuts and fill in a book .

Purists will prefer a stamped book as its part of the heritage though , buy a replacement and get it stamped perhaps Question
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HSC911
Long Beach


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 6620
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome

Don't do it Sad

Sounds a great car, an link to it Dont know

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PorscheTurbo996London
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Joined: 27 Nov 2018
Posts: 5



PostPosted: Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:13 pm    Post subject: SC Buying Advice Reply with quote

I did a HPI check and it shows a Colour change in 2005 from Green.I guess that would not be favourable in terms of value?
I will put up a link tomorrow
Thanks for your replies
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15988
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:14 am    Post subject: Re: SC Buying Advice Reply with quote

PorscheTurbo996London wrote:


I am Looking to p/ex my 996 TT for a 1980 911sc



Looks like your choice of username was a bit short-sighted then. Grin

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PorscheTurbo996London
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Joined: 27 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject: SC Buying Advice Reply with quote

I guess it was but I'm still in the 996 camp at the minute so I'm sitting on the fence Thumb
 
  
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takeflight
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Joined: 28 Nov 2017
Posts: 31



PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your looking for a car to have a bit of fun and at least keep its value, then the deal is matching numbers, original spec including colours, The more history the better and Rhd. If you won’t to go to the next level then limited production numbers. Also imho buy the best you can.
 
  
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PorscheTurbo996London
Newbie


Joined: 27 Nov 2018
Posts: 5



PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:39 pm    Post subject: More SC Buying Advice Reply with quote

I know this is an old post of mine but I have still been keeping my eye out.I saw this one on Ebay which looks quite nice but its obviously not 100% original. .Will this drastically affect it as an investment? Question

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1980-Porsche-911-COUPE-Petrol-blue-Manual-/122998505974
 
  
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Luddite
Nürburgring


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 459
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have time to pass so as no one else has responded to your latest request I will give it a go..

If you are buying into the idea of a Porsche as an INVESTMENT, then good luck with that.

A sports car that is circa 40 years old is just bound to have stories to tell and they are unlikely to match those you have adopted in your mindset unless you are entirely immune to MARKET hype, and few of us really are, to some degree at least..? Salesmen are trained to assess YOU better than the car he/she is trying to sell you, and if you are a sucker for sales patter they will know all the trigger points to feed you..?

I have expressed opinion on this SC before but I can not remember where cause I`m an old duffer and less than knowledgeable in the use of technology...

Whether this is an SC SPORT or just an SC with sport additions will affect it`s perceived value.

Non sports as were mine had Cookie Cutter wheels of 15" (?) diameter and thus used higher profile tyres to provide the same rolling radius as the 16" FUCHS wheels used on the SPORT with lower profile tyres.. The effect of which on the sport equated to the sharper steering response and stiffer ride, though at the time I made these assessments the cars were circa 10 years old...

The SC sport used Bilstine (sp?) shockers and the non sport used Boge, I was more than happy with the more comfortable ride in my non sport SC than that which I experienced in the sport when travelling over rough roads, even on track days of which I attended a few.. Sure the non sport took a bit more time to set up and settle into corners as determined by tyre sidewall flex but that was never found to be a problem out on the road.... I can appreciate a bit of flexibility, more so these days (-:

Tombstone seats were never a favourite which seem to be those fitted to the SC in question. As for tartan, well each to their own sense of taste..?

I note that the rear fog guard lights are missing thus fastidious past ownership kinda goes out the window, perhaps more so as the fixing holes seem to be left to their own devices risking encouraging corrosion..?

I have it in my mind that I may have seen engine bay pics of this car, in which it may have not had an air pump in position, whether an air pump is fitted as original in the earlier SC`s or not I am unsure...? From a poor memory the air pump injected air into the exhaust port in the cyl head to assist further burning of the exhaust gasses before they exited the tail pipe, which supposedly reduced harmful emissions.. thus associated with this system there was pipework on the underside of the engine that inevitably corroded and added another measure of complexity to long term maintenance... I think some folk may have just done away with the pump and the pipework and in the process fitted blanking plugs to the former pipe entry points on each cyl head..? While the omission of this kit may be thought of as a maintenance advantage it may also affect evaluation of ORIGINALITY, and dependant on laws relative to exhaust emission measurement now or in time, may limit your usage of the SC to some degree...?

With any air cooled 911, corrosion is bound to be a potential issue, and repairs if any can come in all ranges of quality on a Porsche, loads of bodge potential that to the naked eye is close to impossible to detect. It can take real expertise to assess the reality of any old sports car and how it has been treated during it`s lifetime... I have posted a few pics of repairs to my Porsches elsewhere on this forum...

I have no real idea as to what the brown staining in the door shuts is other than perhaps the residue of glue used to replace the rubber seals found in the area, this perhaps being the case, then the task seems to have lacked a measure of care, and how that might be interpreted in terms of presentation is for those who might care to take a closer look..

The pale coloured Porsches were not favourite in my book much preferred where stronger reds, white, black, etc, etc, etc, though how that might affect the tastes of today`s market, I have no idea. As investment seems to be key, perhaps you best do a bit more research into market evaluation of body and trim colour..?

I think this car is worthy of a look if an SC is the desired option. if it is a Sport, perhaps for investment, perhaps better still... ???

Good luck in your choices. Hope I have not muddied the water..

More than happy to be corrected..by anyone.
 
  
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takeflight
Newbie


Joined: 28 Nov 2017
Posts: 31



PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Investment unless your into the big time million plus, even then I am not sure any of the cars are an investment. maintenance, tax, insurance, storage etc. IMHO look at, if you can get your money back in three to five years time assuming you haven’t financed it and had some fun along the way then you have won.
Adverts will always say rare, limited, only x made in this colour, don’t really won’t to sell etc etc. Best bet buy original or proven race heritage (big money required) if your not comfortable buying private, then asking around who are the good guys, believe it or not there are some. Zuffenhaus Solihull saved me £67 grand and at the time they didn’t know me from Adam.
 
  
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Luddite
Nürburgring


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 459
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By way of an addendum, I forgot to mention the rear spoiler, which on the car you linked to appears to be constructed mostly of rubber, probably with some internal metal support system which can in time deform to some degree causing it to ripple.

I suspect the much preferred spoiler option in terms of value would be the more usual painted fiberglass framed and rubber tailed spoiler..?

In the case of the car in question I suspect other than the materials used in it`s construction the condition of the spoiler could be an important consideration... Question
 
  
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saxon46
Monza


Joined: 16 Mar 2015
Posts: 181
Location: south wales boy bach


PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get it ppi'd......if its all good buy it ,rip it ,enjoy it....life’s too short 👍👍👍👍
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Luddite
Nürburgring


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 459
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Digging around in my old memory relative to the two SC`s that I bought, both came with broken valve springs which I suspect may have been caused by stuck centrifugal rev limiter in the rotor arm.

Fortunately there are two springs for each valve thus the valves had not embedded themselves in the piston crowns... Question
 
  
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PorscheTurbo996London
Newbie


Joined: 27 Nov 2018
Posts: 5



PostPosted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:24 pm    Post subject: SC Buying Advice Reply with quote

Thanks for your replies.I thought the engine upgrade may devalue it.I was going to do a deal with my 996TT but if it's not a decent example I probably will pass
 
  
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Scholester
Suzuka


Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 1112
Location: South West


PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:02 am    Post subject: Re: SC Buying Advice Reply with quote

PorscheTurbo996London wrote:
Thanks for your replies.I thought the engine upgrade may devalue it.I was going to do a deal with my 996TT but if it's not a decent example I probably will pass

My thoughts.........A non-matching numbers car would have to be significantly cheaper than its similar condition counterpart. A bit like a Cat [D] car that had been repaired to as original condition will be worth a good bit less than a car in original condition.

As investments go, an engine replaced with an incorrect engine type will not sit well with potential buyers come sale time. Now that the air-cooled cars are seen by many as investments, they need to be of investment quality to command true investment money. Incorrect is just that.

I may be wrong but I doubt that the car in question is what you are truly after at this price point as you don't seem totally convinced. Don't look back in a few years and lament over the cracking Turbo you used to own!
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Luddite
Nürburgring


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 459
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starting with an apology.... I had seen this car advertised before but not picked up on the replacement engine. Had there been engine bay pics then the engine type would have have left a question mark.

I suspect the 3.2 conversion at some time would have been considered as an upgrade over the original SC engine..the conversion could be considered as an advantage in terms of performance, reliability and serviceability up to a point ?

Not having matching numbers on a replacement engine identical in spec to that which was ORIGINALLY fitted would be likely to reduce the machines value by some degree. In this case to find an engine that is so obviously different in terms of it`s fuelling system etc. and being from a later model although perhaps not too different in design...Hmm?

As Scholster suggests the engine anomaly may more than likely reduce the cars "investment" potential, though by how much...?

Not sure that the engine swap would discourage ME as much as a machine that had been an insurance write off at some time in it`s past, which would require a great deal more investigation to ascertain the quality of whatever repairs might have been carried out.... Another aspect of a CAT car is I believe the inability to change the registration plates, which may or may not be an issue for some buyers..?

If I picked up correctly it seems the Fuchs may not be original to the car (?) Thus if originally a non sport SC, it may be that the the suspension system or part thereof may not ideally match the lower profile of the tyres..?

The extra bolstering to the sides of the tombstone seats seems to hint at SC Sport specification, though that begs the question are they original to the car...?

Buying old sports cars can be a bit of a minefield. though can be rewarding for the real enthusiast, perhaps far more of a gamble for those seeking profit from their financial investment..?

Just thinking in type, more than happy to be corrected
 
  
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carmad0151
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Joined: 11 Jul 2019
Posts: 4



PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:47 pm    Post subject: Hello Reply with quote

Hi just joined the forum after reading Luddites posts he speaks a lot of sense over these cars
 
  
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Chester J Lampwick
Monza


Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 183
Location: Up North

1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact its the wrong engine would put me off more than it not being the original one, I assume also you get much less idea of mileage done on the motor, at least a chassis usually comes with a mileage reading.

But the 3.2 is a better engine than the SC with the cam chain tensioners and Jetronic malarkey.

I've not been on here for a while, ironically given the OP wanting to go aircooled from a 996 Turbo, I'm here doing research prior to trying to flog my 3.2 to get into a 997 Gen 1 Turbo. But I dare say that will be another thread.
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Luddite
Nürburgring


Joined: 18 Dec 2018
Posts: 459
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carmad0151, I have had the GREAT pleasure of owning two SC`s one of 77 vintage and the other circa 1980, two superb machines but not without their ...err...foibles, which I forgave them given the amount of pleasure they provided me with over the years I owned them. As for their foibles.... well they had a lot less of those than any previous sports GT or other cars I has previously owned... (-:

Chester J Lampwick.. Perhaps using the term "wrong" to determine the replacement engine could seem a tad strong, given that it does seem a logical upgrade over the SC, and is the next in line Porsche upgrade not an engine that formerly lived in a Subaru or somesuch..?

I suspect the vehicle in question like MANY of it`s AGE and type may have experienced a variety of ..err..use and abuse in it`s lifetime.. after all it is a sports car... and while many may now live pampered lives as garage queens, they might have previously lived more like ladies of the night and been through the hands of many owners who gave them what today might be considered as rough treatment, before being polished up to hide the inevitable scars and to remove the signs of an unhappy history before being advertised in what seems like the sort of prose that resembles an unrecognisable description that an estate agent might use to describe very our own house..?

As for what is original and correct in relation to an old sports car and the value of that originality to an INVESTOR as opposed to someone who really wants to enjoy a particular machine in terms of it`s vices and virtues, you may be correct to use the term "wrong" in terms of the engine, even though the reality may well be an improvement over original.. Old Porsches can be FANTASTIC FUN but the "market" seems well overheated at the moment...?

Old sports cars as investments.... I would think that is not the place to be for much longer.... NOT that I am any kind of economist or financial advisor but as far as investment vehicles go, I suspect old cars have had their heyday...?

Just so happens I attended the recent Scottish Transport Extravaganza at Glamis Castle, a quite wonderful collection of "Classic" cars and much else collectable... it seemed to me that a great many owners were..err..mature, the majority perhaps even of my generation, which caused me to wonder about the much touted investment potential of such machinery in advertising plus the possible amount of "man maths" that may have become very involved in so many recreational vehicle (Classic car) purchases over the years...?
If my observations at Glamis were in any way reasonable then it seems just possible that as us older codgers slip off our perches, that the young perhaps deprived of reasonable job contracts, house buying opportunities and unlikely to be bought out of their jobs with golden handshakes and then into a reasonable pension situation... might just not be able to follow in our footsteps as we might hope..?

If I further consider that baby boomers and the like ever had dreams of Porsche Ferrari Morgan and other classic car ownership it seems logical (?) that in time as funds became available then the opportunity to acquire such a vehicle would be grabbed with both hands... I have no real idea of what the mid 20`s age group and younger ever had as pics on their walls, or perhaps I should be thinking of whatever image they have chosen to display on the front of their phone... whatever... but I suspect it might not be of some vehicle that is much older than them...? Sure there will be some youngsters who appreciate the finer things in life.... but how many...hmm..?

I am not a numbers thinker by nature, but looking at some car adverts for "classic" cars and what seems like not a lot of movement for some seemingly desirable machinery, I do wonder if the shine has come off the investment potential thinking...? Brexit is bound to play a part in the mindset of many and if statistics are correct then circa 50% of the population should be confident to keep on spending if they voted for it, so would that equate to circa 50% drop in the classic car market...but perhaps that is not the case..hmm.... at the moment but given the recent reported underhand dealings of some purveyors of Porsche perhaps struggling to survive in what might be a difficult market....hmm ?

Another rather obvious thought was the seemingly exponential growth in publicity relative to save the planet issues and how they will affect the investment value of "Classic" cars...?

My thinking is that it might be best to enjoy "classic" cars while you can, as they may become far less valued by the "market" and perhaps sooner than we might think, as I suspect there may be a limited market for garage queens (no insult intended) as seems may be a logical evolutionary ownership path for most fossil fuel burning machinery...?

So in conclusion Chester, I think it could be very astute of you to seek to trade your 3.2 for as new a Porsche as you can manage to acquire, given that older Porsches are most likely to be taxed higher and eventually legislated against in an expected evolutionary process...?

Would be more than happy to read any alternative thinking..
 
  
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diverzeusy
Suzuka


Joined: 10 Nov 2012
Posts: 1041
Location: Doncaster UK


PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so, my take on things Dont know
If the car has a different engine, little history etc, etc, it will be less money than the 30k mile one with impeccable history file? yes ?
So, come sale time, the now 32k mile + history file has gone up in value, surely the other one will also increase in value? I would say perhaps not as much, as its not as rare/special but at least you would not be scared to put a few miles and stone chips on the cheaper one.
Buy a car to enjoy unless you have deep pockets and do not want to drive it much. then you can go to Sotherbys or RM Auctions and buy an investment/display piece Thumb
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