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Stephen603
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Joined: 16 Jul 2017
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Location: Hemel Hempstead


PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:13 pm    Post subject: Seven reasons the 997 is the best generation 911 Reply with quote

A pretty gd read, apologies in advance if this has already been posted.

Now we just need to sit and wait for our investment to slowly rise up with more articles like this.

Be interesting to see what happens once the 992 comes out.
Grin


https://www.total911.com/opinion-seven-reasons-the-997-is-the-best-generation-911/

Quote:
OPINION: SEVEN REASONS THE 997 IS THE BEST GENERATION OF PORSCHE 911

We’ve had 51 years of brilliant 911s leaving the Werk II factory at Zuffenhausen, but which generation is the greatest? Many say it is the 993 as the pinnacle of automotive engineering with air cooling. Others say it is now the 964 (marking some turnaround from only five years ago. Where did all those oil leaks disappear to, I wonder?).

Then there’s the school of thought that suggests the pre-impact bumper era should rightfully be lavished with the crown due to the sheer purity offered by these wholly mechanical classics. Of course, there is a case for every 911 generation as the greatest, but I have difficulty in looking past the 997. Here’s why:

996
1) It represented a return to form after the 996
I’ve said before that we should forever be grateful to the 996 as the saviour of Porsche, but the reality is it’s still the marmite era of the entire 911 spectrum. The M96 engine is far from bulletproof (IMS, RMS, and scored bore horror stories should suitably confirm that one) and those runny-egg headlamps were a kick in the stomach for those who had long admired the simple, elegant vista of every single 911 pre-1998. Then there’s the 996’s interior, which fell short of Porsche’s usual high standards of luxury and opulence as cost-cutting became the new buzzword.

However, the 997 brought a much-needed return to traditional 911 aesthetics – admittedly through borrowing styling cues from the 993 – without the bulbous evolution of the longer and heavier 991s. The interior was completely overhauled with luxury once again in mind, too. Even better, 997 interiors have stood the test of time since, unlike the dated 996.

Engines also improved for the 997: despite suspect revelations about the early M97, it doesn’t suffer from the same reputation as the M96, while the DFI engines fitted to Gen2 997s are considered bullet-proof.
Make no mistake, the 997’s role should not be underestimated: if the 996 saved Porsche, the 997 saved the legacy of the 911 as we know it.

manual
2) It’s the last bastion of the mechanical 911
Sure, the 997 was bestowed with an entire catalogue of electronic driving aids such as PASM, VTG, PTM and PSM to name a few, but the takeover of the ECU only intensified under the subsequent 991. Most significantly, electric steering in all 991s plus PDK-only transmission and rear axle steering in the new GT and Turbo models have since boosted the profile of the purer 997.

_AC_0206
3) It’s the pinnacle of the ‘Mezger’ engine
The GT3 RS 4.0-litre was released as the ‘last hurrah’ of the 997 era, and it lived up to its reputation as one of the finest 911s ever built. With a huge 3,996cc engine capacity (you’ll struggle for bigger bores for the flat six than with the RS 4.0) helping to produce nearly 500bhp without a turbocharger in sight, this represents the finest road-going iteration of the famous ‘Mezger’ engine.

Its legacy is protected, too: the 991 GT3 has already ditched the ‘Mezger’ in favour of a reworked DFI Carrera S unit, perhaps an acceptance from Porsche that the engine had reached its maximum capabilities in RS 4.0 guise.

Porsche 911 Sport Classic und Speedster
4) The 997 still gave exclusivity
You can quite easily count over 30 different variants of the 997 before getting into difficulty, but don’t let that put you off the provenance of some variants in the generation. Despite this being the most mass-produced 911 to date, a selection of rare gems were made to keep you on the edge of your seat.

Only 356 Speedsters were made courtesy of the Exclusiv department, for example, while only 250 of the brilliantly nostalgic Sport Classic were produced. Meanwhile, all 918 units of the 997 Turbo S 918 Edition were reserved exclusively for those who had paid a deposit on the new Porsche 918 hypercar. Get your hands on any of these, not to mention a GT2 RS or GT3 RS 4.0 and you’ve got yourself a rare 911 indeed, more exclusive than even the 2.7RS.

_AC_8669
5) The RS went turbocharged
Sure, historical geeks will point out the Turbo RSR racer from 1974 to try and usurp my point here, but the 997 GT2 RS represented the first time Porsche had given the Rennsport badge to a road-going turbocharged 911. Moreover, it didn’t disappoint. The 997 GT2 RS is revered as one of the most extreme 911s ever to grace the road, and if you want one for your collection now, you’ll already need to pay considerably more than book price from first release.

VTG
6) VTG was introduced
The first generation 997 Turbo was introduced with a new technology: Variable Turbine Geometry. In layman terms this effectively gives the best of both small and large turbochargers thanks to electrically-operated guide vanes in each turbo helping to achieve optimum gas-flow characteristics at all times.

The result is noticeably reduced turbo lag and a wider band of peak torque. This gave turbocharged 997s unrelenting, savage performance right through the rev range, transforming the personality of the Turbo. The technology is still used by Porsche on the 991.

200mph
7) The 911 hit 200mph
Twice, in fact. After the 997 GT2 powered on to a confirmed 204mph in 2007, the GT2 RS beat it by 1mph three years later. No other factory 911 has passed the double-ton mark before or since.

To refine my point, I’m not suggesting every 997 model was the best of its kind. Far from it. However, it’s hard to deny that the 997 generation played a vital role in bringing the 911 at large back to form, all the while reaching a pinnacle in blending such blistering performance with modern purity, something no other past, present or future 911 generation is likely to be able to match.

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Last edited by Stephen603 on Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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wasz
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Joined: 28 Dec 2012
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1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Seven reasons the 997 is the best generation 911 Reply with quote

Stephen603 wrote:
Now we just need to sit and wait for our investment to slowly rise up


Floor
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alex yates
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha! - The M96: IMS, RMS, and scored bore horror stories should suitably confirm that one.

Engines also improved for the 997: despite suspect revelations about the early M97, it doesn’t suffer from the same reputation as the M96, while the DFI engines fitted to Gen2 997s are considered bullet-proof.

Is he on gas?

There's more 997s racked up at Hartech with fu**ed engines than 996s.

Floor Floor Floor

Even a Gen 2 (sorry Phil).
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spongebob squarepants
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dont know
Alls I can find is a link saying how the 991.1 911 as the last of the naturally aspirated flat sixes is the best 911 ever Grin worship
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FZP
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spongebob squarepants wrote:
Dont know
Alls I can find is a link saying how the 991.1 911 as the last of the naturally aspirated flat sixes is the best 911 ever Grin worship

He's made the jump to 991 and now it's 997who???? How do you tell if someone owns a 991........
Give them 3 mins, they'll tell you. The first 2:59 will be about Crossfit and being Vegan. Rolling Eyes Grin
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spongebob squarepants
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FZP wrote:
spongebob squarepants wrote:
Dont know
Alls I can find is a link saying how the 991.1 911 as the last of the naturally aspirated flat sixes is the best 911 ever Grin worship

He's made the jump to 991 and now it's 997who???? How do you tell if someone owns a 991........
Give them 3 mins, they'll tell you. The first 2:59 will be about Crossfit and being Vegan. Rolling Eyes Grin


I hated them not long ago, now of course they are the best Grin. It’s a bit 964 v 993. I could list the reasons why, however best saved for future debates worship Floor
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Stephen603
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Joined: 16 Jul 2017
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Location: Hemel Hempstead


PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

updated the link... had a tag on it which too it to a different page...
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ragpicker
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

991, the best Porsche Audi have ever made... so far Wink
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MJA911
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^ yawn

Wink
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Robertb
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the most badly researched clickbaitey articles I’ve ever read in Total 911, reminds me why I never buy the mag anymore. That and their pathetic cringey use of ‘Neunelfer’.
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MJA911
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree
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T8
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Seven reasons the 997 is the best generation 911 Reply with quote

Stephen603 wrote:


https://www.total911.com/opinion-seven-reasons-the-997-is-the-best-generation-911/

Now we just need to sit and wait for our investment to slowly rise up with more articles like this.



Unfortunately it's a 4 year old article.

Coincidentally it was written just as 997 values had bottomed out and in the next couple of years they did rise.

At the moment all variants represent great value for money but I don't think many could be considered 'investments'.

Nice try though. Very Happy
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Magic919
Österreich


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a load of twaddle. Sounds like confirmation bias.
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
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2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
Ha! - The M96: IMS, RMS, and scored bore horror stories should suitably confirm that one.

Engines also improved for the 997: despite suspect revelations about the early M97, it doesn’t suffer from the same reputation as the M96, while the DFI engines fitted to Gen2 997s are considered bullet-proof.

Is he on gas?

There's more 997s racked up at Hartech with fu**ed engines than 996s.

Floor Floor Floor

Even a Gen 2 (sorry Phil).


Grin Grin thats an interesting point Alex nooo no not my cooked gen2 as that really was not a fault of Porsche but more the previous owner using inferor exhaust parts . but it would be interesting to get a view from someone like Baz whether the 996 or the 997.1 make up the estimated 5% of engines with borescope or whether one or the other are more prevalent or even if its more equal Question and interestingly if the 996 has higher IMS failures than the early 997.1 pre the newer ims bearings being used . Dont know Question
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alex yates
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't stating it was Porsche's fault mate, DFI engine obviously not "bullet-proof" which is stated in the article.

Fact is bore score is most apparent in tips & 3.8 engines. Seeing as the M96 never came in 3.8 form, then that shoves the figures up for the M97.
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
I wasn't stating it was Porsche's fault mate, DFI engine obviously not "bullet-proof" which is stated in the article.

Fact is bore score is most apparent in tips & 3.8 engines. Seeing as the M96 never came in 3.8 form, then that shoves the figures up for the M97.


Grin well I can only agree that the gen2 isn't totally bullet proof Grin Yes I know the 3.6 997.1 is less prone to scoring and thats basically the engine from the 996 so your comment would make sense. So is it more IMS that the 996 is plagued with as for most of the 997.1s production they had moved to the newer bearing so less 997.1s than 996 with the old style IMS .

I read the article , its a bit all over the place and its really impossible to state which is the best 911
as different people like different things many say the 996 is the better driving car others say the 997 is the better looking car and others think the 997.1 3.6 is the best all round value for money car then theres those that rave about the 997.2

personally and this is purely my opinion and excluding flagship models but I think the unicorn for me would be a well speced 997.1 3.8 4S, X51, aero kit, Hartech rebuilt car in Speed Yellow Grin Grin Grin
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ragpicker
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MJA911 wrote:
^^^^ yawn

Wink


Floor Thumb
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badlands
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TOTAL 911 are the absolute worst when it comes to writing clickbait articles in order to drive up web visits, thus being able to make more ££ from advertising.

There's loads of these junk articles they've written. One minute it's "here's 10 reasons why the 964 is better than the 993" then a few months later they'll do "here's why the 993 is the definitive 911" or something.

They know it stires up debate on forums, driving clicks and helping with their Google search rankings.
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jonttt
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's a 997 Dont know
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alex yates
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jonttt wrote:
What's a 997 Dont know


a modern version of your garage Princess.
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