Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:16 pm Post subject: Cat C car - would you or wouldnt you...
Heres the scenario... plenty of nice looking C2 and C4's around for £15k, but theres also a high spec low miles '02 C4s for the same price.... BUT its Cat C...
lets just say that they are all well maintained, well serviced and with good provinance, and the Cat C car has an inspection repair certificate post fixing (was apparantly cat C at 5 months old which does raise questions about how much damage was done to what would have been a £60k car then)
WWYD?
Martin996RSR Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 08 Dec 2016 Posts: 319
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:20 pm Post subject:
I wouldn't, for the sole reason that it would be that much harder to sell when the time comes. There is no technical/safety reason not to, provided the car passes a thorough inspection and has all the relevant documentation. I probably would consider a Cat C or D car if it was a forever car that I wouldn't ever intend to sell on.
Grey996 Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 24 Jan 2017 Posts: 285 Location: Sheffield
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:26 pm Post subject:
I wouldn't rule it out but for me I'd have to know exactly what was repaired and 100% that it was repaired properly.
Then you've the sale price when you sell, if it's a keeper then no problem but if you do sell you won't lose either so to speak, just remember you bought it cheap so you'll have to sell it cheap. _________________ 2002 Porsche 996 C2
Hertsdriver Trainee
Joined: 12 Nov 2018 Posts: 68
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:32 pm Post subject:
have been having the same thoughts... its at least £5k under the market value of a C4s, maybe more.. and it puts a much nicer spec of car in my price bracket (no offense to the non wide bodies but the turbo body does really look nice at least to my eyes). the plan with this car is to keep it at least 5 years and for it to hopefully not depreciate too much. I guess that wont make much odds in the future if I do decide to sell it as long as I factor in that it will be slightly harder to shift, and that it will need to be the same percentage under normal market value. Then in that time ive got to drive a much nicer spec of car (a bit like a PCP plan )
hmmm
Robertb Long Beach
Joined: 01 Sep 2003 Posts: 6979 Location: South Oxfordshire
Cat C means that it has had structural damage, so probably quite a big shunt. Inspection repair certificate is a plus. As said above, if it all checks out and is a keeper for the right money, then proceed with eyes open, but be ready to accept a discount come sale time.
I took a similar view with my 4S is as much as it was relatively high mileage when I bought it, albeit in well above average cosmetic condition and from a dealer I knew well and trusted. But it will always be a higher miles car if I come to resell. _________________ "911- the guilt-free supercar"
Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black
Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
Last edited by Robertb on Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hertsdriver Trainee
Joined: 12 Nov 2018 Posts: 68
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:39 pm Post subject:
yes, a big enough shunt to write it off when 5 months old.... head is saying walk away.. _________________ 2018 Brompton S6
2014 Seat Leon FR SC 184
1989 Lancia Delta Integrale 16v
1980 Barlotti BB 210 Upton Villiers 4 speed
1963 Lambretta
X51 996 Trainee
Joined: 14 Nov 2016 Posts: 91 Location: Surrey
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:47 pm Post subject:
Regards values - yes it’s cheaper and yes you’ll sell it for less in the future.
Maybe take it for a 3D 4-wheel alignment check as part of a PPI, check ride heights and measure wheelbases etc - should show itself if it’s a straight car or not.
Funny thing is you could spend £20/25k on one privately and the engine could go pop 2 months later.
Downside is it will cost just as much to fix/maintain a lower-value/categorised car.
IMHO it would be less of an issue on a 15/20 year old car like a 996 today than say a 5 year old car. Most 996s are pretty much rolling restorations of sorts nowadays anyway and even straight cars will have had paintwork, new radiators/condensers and stuff over the years.
Go and see the car and if you really like it just have it inspected first would be my advice. It’s obviously been in use for some time if it was damaged at 5 months old? _________________ 2003 911 Carrera 2 coupé, Arctic Silver - 3.6 manual, X51 Carrera PowerKit, X74 Suspension, Sunroof delete, PSM delete. Black leather crested sports seats (XSC), XAG rear spoiler, 5-spoke 18" Carrera Alloys, Xenons.
Friend of mine just had his 4 month old S90 T8 written off for damage to the paint - a concrete sealant in use on a site was sprayed over the car and has put indelible circles in all the glass and the paint on every panel.
I have no idea what the cost of replacing every window would be, but I do know what a repaint costs, and it strikes me that it's an interesting decision to write this car off - but I'm not an insurance company.
Properly repaired I'd have no issues with a cat-C, problem is, of course, knowing whether it has been properly repaired - hence why I skipped any advert that said either cat C or D when looking for my car. _________________ My 996, AKA Project Ridiculous
You need pictures of damage
Pictures of repair
Receipts
Needs to be 20% cheaper than equivalent. Personally I would only buy it if its bolt -on -off parts.
You will not have trouble selling it on, but no trader will take it.
Robertb wrote:
Cat C means that it has had structural damage, so probably quite a big shunt..
No it absolutely does not mean that. The old cat c and cat d were financial measures of the total claim value (Inc hire cars and claims management fees) Vs the cars value. C was more than cars value, d something like 60%.
A damaged nearly new 996... hmmm what is the cost of renting a new 911 for a month or 2 whilst this one is repaired? plus "claims management" plus everything else.. might fairly easily write it off.
My first thought was as above, take it to CofG for an alignment check
Slutters Monza
Joined: 11 Jun 2014 Posts: 224
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:08 pm Post subject:
A 100% yes for me if it all checks out ok, pay less for the car, sell it for less, seems fair to me, you get a lower millage, higher spec car for less money, no one can tell when your driving along...
asterix_the_gaul Barcelona
Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1262 Location: Cheshire
Many people won't touch a cat write off, but there's no reason not to essential as long as you go in with open eyes, just check with prospective insurers if they have any issues insuring it, they probably won't, but quote on an identical not cat write off car to compare: you just need a valid registration number and ask for quotes on two cars you are looking at _________________ 1992 944 S2 Cabriolet, Cobalt Blue/Classic grey -gone!
1995 993 C2 Cabriolet, Midnight Blue/Marble grey -gone!
1999 996 C2 Coupe, Ocean Blue/Graphite grey
2002 E46 M3 Cabriolet, Laguna seca blue/LSB
Many people won't touch a cat write off, but there's no reason not to essential as long as you go in with open eyes, just check with prospective insurers if they have any issues insuring it, they probably won't, but quote on an identical not cat write off car to compare: you just need a valid registration number and ask for quotes on two cars you are looking at
Yes the pool of potential buyers when you sell is smaller. But I've had a few recorded cars and sold for a suitable discounted asking within 1 month. You do seem to get more texts saying as a recorded car its worthless and you should sell it them for 50p, but just ignore and stick to asking price.
Joined: 09 Nov 2010 Posts: 616 Location: Berkshire & London
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:06 am Post subject:
Some insurers wont touch CAT registered vehicles, so check first.... Personally I'd rather buy a cherished example, plenty out there and pay the small extra amount....
Some insurers wont touch CAT registered vehicles, so check first.... Personally I'd rather buy a cherished example, plenty out there and pay the small extra amount....
Any evidence for this? I've never been refused insurance by any company on 3 or 4 recorded cars.
Some insurers wont touch CAT registered vehicles, so check first.... Personally I'd rather buy a cherished example, plenty out there and pay the small extra amount....
Never heard of any insurance company doing this, got any examples at all?
Difference in a recorded/un-recorded Porsche is likley to be £5-7000 as it is in this example so hardly a 'small' extra amount.
T8 General
Joined: 29 Jun 2010 Posts: 15326 Location: Kent
Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:18 am Post subject:
Hertsdriver wrote:
......... its at least £5k under the market value of a C4s, maybe more.. and it puts a much nicer spec of car in my price bracket (no offense to the non wide bodies but the turbo body does really look nice at least to my eyes). the plan with this car is to keep it at least 5 years and for it to hopefully not depreciate too much. I guess that wont make much odds in the future if I do decide to sell it as long as I factor in that it will be slightly harder to shift, and that it will need to be the same percentage under normal market value.
This is exactly the mind-set you need to have if you decide to proceed.
You need to get the car for 30% less than an equivalent un-recorded car. _________________ 2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
......... its at least £5k under the market value of a C4s, maybe more.. and it puts a much nicer spec of car in my price bracket (no offense to the non wide bodies but the turbo body does really look nice at least to my eyes). the plan with this car is to keep it at least 5 years and for it to hopefully not depreciate too much. I guess that wont make much odds in the future if I do decide to sell it as long as I factor in that it will be slightly harder to shift, and that it will need to be the same percentage under normal market value.
This is exactly the mind-set you need to have if you decide to proceed.
You need to get the car for 30% less than an equivalent un-recorded car.
You need to get the car as cheap as possible
The recorded cars I have sold on I managed to sell for somewhere between 15-20% less than equivalent, never a Porsche but other performance cars.
Most dealers will not deal with Cat C, limiting your options when selling. _________________ 996 C2
Hertsdriver Trainee
Joined: 12 Nov 2018 Posts: 68
Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:31 pm Post subject:
Update, have decided to walk away from this one...
Dealer seems sketchy...they say they are in Chesham, Bucks, but phone number is a london 020 8 number.... He doesnt know what was done to the car or what the damage was... the repair certificate is a duplicate, car was damaged in 2004 not at 5 months old...
checked the MOT history and got this gem:
Date tested
5 February 2010; FAIL
Mileage
45,352 miles
MOT test number
8915 7613 0031
Test location
View test location
Reason(s) for failure
Nearside Headlamp aim too low (1.
Offside Headlamp aim too low (1. Nearside Rear Subframe mounting prescribed area is inadequately repaired (2.4.A.3)
Advisory notice item(s)
Nearside Rear Exhaust has a minor leak of exhaust gases (7.1.2)
Nearside Front brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)
Offside Front brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)
Nearside Rear brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)
Offside Rear brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)
they then just went to another MOT place and got a pass instead 5 days later...
Date tested; 12 February 2010
PASS
Mileage
45,352 miles
MOT test number
9224 8314 0076
Test location
View test location
Expiry date
11 February 2011
Advisory notice item(s)
Nearside Front brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)
Offside Front brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)
Nearside Rear brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)
Offside Rear brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)
shame, but as they say if it seems to good to be true....
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