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Hertsdriver
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Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 17



PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject: Cat C car - would you or wouldnt you... Reply with quote

Heres the scenario... plenty of nice looking C2 and C4's around for £15k, but theres also a high spec low miles '02 C4s for the same price.... BUT its Cat C...

lets just say that they are all well maintained, well serviced and with good provinance, and the Cat C car has an inspection repair certificate post fixing (was apparantly cat C at 5 months old which does raise questions about how much damage was done to what would have been a £60k car then)

WWYD? Question
 
  
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Martin996RSR
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 283



PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't, for the sole reason that it would be that much harder to sell when the time comes. There is no technical/safety reason not to, provided the car passes a thorough inspection and has all the relevant documentation. I probably would consider a Cat C or D car if it was a forever car that I wouldn't ever intend to sell on.
 
  
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Grey996
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 24 Jan 2017
Posts: 252
Location: Sheffield


PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't rule it out but for me I'd have to know exactly what was repaired and 100% that it was repaired properly.

Then you've the sale price when you sell, if it's a keeper then no problem but if you do sell you won't lose either so to speak, just remember you bought it cheap so you'll have to sell it cheap.
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Hertsdriver
Newbie


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 17



PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

have been having the same thoughts... its at least £5k under the market value of a C4s, maybe more.. and it puts a much nicer spec of car in my price bracket (no offense to the non wide bodies but the turbo body does really look nice at least to my eyes). the plan with this car is to keep it at least 5 years and for it to hopefully not depreciate too much. I guess that wont make much odds in the future if I do decide to sell it as long as I factor in that it will be slightly harder to shift, and that it will need to be the same percentage under normal market value. Then in that time ive got to drive a much nicer spec of car (a bit like a PCP plan Very Happy Very Happy )

hmmm
 
  
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Robertb
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 6718
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cat C means that it has had structural damage, so probably quite a big shunt. Inspection repair certificate is a plus. As said above, if it all checks out and is a keeper for the right money, then proceed with eyes open, but be ready to accept a discount come sale time.

I took a similar view with my 4S is as much as it was relatively high mileage when I bought it, albeit in well above average cosmetic condition and from a dealer I knew well and trusted. But it will always be a higher miles car if I come to resell.
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Last edited by Robertb on Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Hertsdriver
Newbie


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, a big enough shunt to write it off when 5 months old.... head is saying walk away..
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X51 996
Trainee


Joined: 14 Nov 2016
Posts: 89
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regards values - yes it’s cheaper and yes you’ll sell it for less in the future.

Maybe take it for a 3D 4-wheel alignment check as part of a PPI, check ride heights and measure wheelbases etc - should show itself if it’s a straight car or not.

Funny thing is you could spend £20/25k on one privately and the engine could go pop 2 months later.

Downside is it will cost just as much to fix/maintain a lower-value/categorised car.

IMHO it would be less of an issue on a 15/20 year old car like a 996 today than say a 5 year old car. Most 996s are pretty much rolling restorations of sorts nowadays anyway and even straight cars will have had paintwork, new radiators/condensers and stuff over the years.

Go and see the car and if you really like it just have it inspected first would be my advice. It’s obviously been in use for some time if it was damaged at 5 months old?
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1916



PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Friend of mine just had his 4 month old S90 T8 written off for damage to the paint - a concrete sealant in use on a site was sprayed over the car and has put indelible circles in all the glass and the paint on every panel.

I have no idea what the cost of replacing every window would be, but I do know what a repaint costs, and it strikes me that it's an interesting decision to write this car off - but I'm not an insurance company.

Properly repaired I'd have no issues with a cat-C, problem is, of course, knowing whether it has been properly repaired - hence why I skipped any advert that said either cat C or D when looking for my car.
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wasz
Magny-Cours


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2639


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would not put me off.

You need pictures of damage
Pictures of repair
Receipts

Needs to be 20% cheaper than equivalent. Personally I would only buy it if its bolt -on -off parts.

You will not have trouble selling it on, but no trader will take it.


Robertb wrote:
Cat C means that it has had structural damage, so probably quite a big shunt..


frustrated

No it absolutely does not mean that. The old cat c and cat d were financial measures of the total claim value (Inc hire cars and claims management fees) Vs the cars value. C was more than cars value, d something like 60%.

A damaged nearly new 996... hmmm what is the cost of renting a new 911 for a month or 2 whilst this one is repaired? plus "claims management" plus everything else.. might fairly easily write it off.

The new cat N and S do however mean exactly what you describe, they are not financially based, simply non structural (N) and structural (S). They changed specifically to avoid the confusion above.
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HSC911
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 5717
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's worth a shot I think Judge

It's been ok for the last 14/15/16 years Dont know

My first thought was as above, take it to CofG for an alignment check Thumb
 
  
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Slutters
Monza


Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 223



PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 100% yes for me if it all checks out ok, pay less for the car, sell it for less, seems fair to me, you get a lower millage, higher spec car for less money, no one can tell when your driving along...
 
  
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asterix_the_gaul
Suzuka


Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 1125
Location: Cheshire

1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many people won't touch a cat write off, but there's no reason not to essential as long as you go in with open eyes, just check with prospective insurers if they have any issues insuring it, they probably won't, but quote on an identical not cat write off car to compare: you just need a valid registration number and ask for quotes on two cars you are looking at
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wasz
Magny-Cours


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2639


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

asterix_the_gaul wrote:
Many people won't touch a cat write off, but there's no reason not to essential as long as you go in with open eyes, just check with prospective insurers if they have any issues insuring it, they probably won't, but quote on an identical not cat write off car to compare: you just need a valid registration number and ask for quotes on two cars you are looking at


Yes the pool of potential buyers when you sell is smaller. But I've had a few recorded cars and sold for a suitable discounted asking within 1 month. You do seem to get more texts saying as a recorded car its worthless and you should sell it them for 50p, but just ignore and stick to asking price.

Never had an insurer mention it. If you write it off they might value it lower given its a recorded car, but that is fair enough and should be inline with what you paid.
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baldguy
Montreal


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 519
Location: Berkshire & London


PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some insurers wont touch CAT registered vehicles, so check first.... Personally I'd rather buy a cherished example, plenty out there and pay the small extra amount....
 
  
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wasz
Magny-Cours


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2639


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

baldguy wrote:
Some insurers wont touch CAT registered vehicles, so check first.... Personally I'd rather buy a cherished example, plenty out there and pay the small extra amount....


Any evidence for this? I've never been refused insurance by any company on 3 or 4 recorded cars.

A recorded car just means it wasn't financially viable for the insurance company to repair the car on a whole claim basis. It's nothing to do with the extent of type of damage. Lots and lots of cars are repaired every day by insurance companies,, would you not touch these either? How would you ever know?
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Slutters
Monza


Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 223



PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

baldguy wrote:
Some insurers wont touch CAT registered vehicles, so check first.... Personally I'd rather buy a cherished example, plenty out there and pay the small extra amount....


Never heard of any insurance company doing this, got any examples at all?

Difference in a recorded/un-recorded Porsche is likley to be £5-7000 as it is in this example so hardly a 'small' extra amount.
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 14698
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hertsdriver wrote:


......... its at least £5k under the market value of a C4s, maybe more.. and it puts a much nicer spec of car in my price bracket (no offense to the non wide bodies but the turbo body does really look nice at least to my eyes). the plan with this car is to keep it at least 5 years and for it to hopefully not depreciate too much. I guess that wont make much odds in the future if I do decide to sell it as long as I factor in that it will be slightly harder to shift, and that it will need to be the same percentage under normal market value.



This is exactly the mind-set you need to have if you decide to proceed. Thumb

You need to get the car for 30% less than an equivalent un-recorded car.
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wasz
Magny-Cours


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2639


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
Hertsdriver wrote:


......... its at least £5k under the market value of a C4s, maybe more.. and it puts a much nicer spec of car in my price bracket (no offense to the non wide bodies but the turbo body does really look nice at least to my eyes). the plan with this car is to keep it at least 5 years and for it to hopefully not depreciate too much. I guess that wont make much odds in the future if I do decide to sell it as long as I factor in that it will be slightly harder to shift, and that it will need to be the same percentage under normal market value.



This is exactly the mind-set you need to have if you decide to proceed. Thumb

You need to get the car for 30% less than an equivalent un-recorded car.


You need to get the car as cheap as possible Thumb

The recorded cars I have sold on I managed to sell for somewhere between 15-20% less than equivalent, never a Porsche but other performance cars.

My cars have always been very good examples and "cherished".
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LOJO
Österreich


Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 961
Location: Bucks


PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most dealers will not deal with Cat C, limiting your options when selling.
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Hertsdriver
Newbie


Joined: 12 Nov 2018
Posts: 17



PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Update, have decided to walk away from this one...

Dealer seems sketchy...they say they are in Chesham, Bucks, but phone number is a london 020 8 number.... He doesnt know what was done to the car or what the damage was... the repair certificate is a duplicate, car was damaged in 2004 not at 5 months old...

checked the MOT history and got this gem:

Date tested
5 February 2010; FAIL
Mileage
45,352 miles
MOT test number
8915 7613 0031
Test location
View test location
Reason(s) for failure
Nearside Headlamp aim too low (1.Cool
Offside Headlamp aim too low (1.Cool
Nearside Rear Subframe mounting prescribed area is inadequately repaired (2.4.A.3)
Advisory notice item(s)
Nearside Rear Exhaust has a minor leak of exhaust gases (7.1.2)
Nearside Front brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)
Offside Front brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)
Nearside Rear brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)
Offside Rear brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)

they then just went to another MOT place and got a pass instead 5 days later...
Date tested; 12 February 2010
PASS
Mileage
45,352 miles
MOT test number
9224 8314 0076
Test location
View test location
Expiry date
11 February 2011
Advisory notice item(s)
Nearside Front brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)
Offside Front brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)
Nearside Rear brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)
Offside Rear brake disc slightly pitted (3.5.1h)

shame, but as they say if it seems to good to be true....

Unless anybody knows this car? Reg is BN02YHW
https://www.themotoringteam.co.uk/used-cars/porsche-911-3-6-996-carrera-4s-awd-2dr-london-201811082253440?at_source=autotrader&at_medium=desktop&at_campaign=website-visit&_ga=2.85222160.806988456.1542377275-49557289.1539344502
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