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hopeydaze
Silverstone


Joined: 06 Jan 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Wargrave, Berkshire, UK


PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:25 pm    Post subject: 993 gear change when cold Reply with quote

I ventured north to the PCGB trackday at Oulton Park yesterday. I stayed at a local hotel the previous night and woke up to a cold morning and a gearbox that refused to go into gear, and when I eventually found 2nd it stayed there until I got to the track. Once warm, the gearbox was flawless, and the car was great on track.

I haven't heard of this problem before and have never seen it mentioned on the various 993 forums...and then I did a search on here to find it was widely discussed 10 years ago with the famous Baz from Hartech advising on changing gearbox oil and not to use additives. Others recommended letting the engine warm up for 10 minutes.

Presumably, the reason I haven't heard of this issue is because no-one drives their 993 in winter?javascript:emoticon('Laughing')

P.S. loads of 991 GT3s on track - and they are too fast
P.P.S. - instructor asked if I had considered M030 sports suspension. Any thoughts?
 
  
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Robertb
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 6649
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't remember my 993 ever being that problematic when cold. A little stickier as all manual cars generally are, but all gears available. A gearbox oil change certainly won't do any harm.

Best practice generally is to start and drive off straight away (but driving gently) as the engine and transmission will warm up faster and hence wear less. Presumably if the car is not moving then the gearbox oil won't warm up.

M030... have a drive of a car with it. What works well on a track may not be ideal for road use. Default advice is to get along to Centre Gravity and have them fit recommended parts set the car up for you, based on what you want.
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Tobesetc
Barcelona


Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 1436
Location: West London, UK


PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slightly off topic, this reminds me of a question I had: We are commonly advised not to let the car warm up standing still, but to drive it, as the oil pump doesn't circulate oil until the engine is warm and fires the thermostat. But the same is true regardless of whether the car is moving or static. Is the advice solely based on the idea that the motion of the car circulates the oil?
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kas750
Reims


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 4062
Location: Chorley lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tobesetc wrote:
Slightly off topic, this reminds me of a question I had: We are commonly advised not to let the car warm up standing still, but to drive it, as the oil pump doesn't circulate oil until the engine is warm and fires the thermostat. But the same is true regardless of whether the car is moving or static. Is the advice solely based on the idea that the motion of the car circulates the oil?


The engine will warm more quickly when under load being driven rather than sat idling and hence not under as much strain.
 
  
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Albionmuz
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 28 Oct 2016
Posts: 355
Location: West Sussex


PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine needs very sympathetic changes from 1st to 2nd until it warms up in the winter, it’s fine in all other gears though. Once warm no problems in any gear.
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Endoman
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 1134
Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The spigot bearing may be dry, that's the bearing in the middle of the flywheel not an easy job to replace.
When the clutch is engaged the input shaft to the geaxbox is still spinning with the engine, making it stiff to engage 1st and 2nd or even stick ingear.
One of those while the clutch is changed jobs.
When you are rolling it's a lot easier to get in the higher gears, on a bike you can change gears without the clutch when moving and I've done it in a car when the clutch slave cylinder failed (not recommended).
Porsche recommended transmission oil is supposed to improve gearchanges but it's very expensive.
A slave cylinder bleed would be the first thing to look at though, if the fluid looks like treacle then a fluid change may help.
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decgraham
Suzuka


Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 1235
Location: Spain


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh the joys of the Tiptronic S, no gear change issues for me, smooth as silk Very Happy

ATB Smile
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Will Statt
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 474
Location: Derbyshire


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tobesetc wrote:
Slightly off topic, this reminds me of a question I had: We are commonly advised not to let the car warm up standing still, but to drive it, as the oil pump doesn't circulate oil until the engine is warm and fires the thermostat. But the same is true regardless of whether the car is moving or static. Is the advice solely based on the idea that the motion of the car circulates the oil?


Ha... our engines wouldn't last long if that was the case! The oil pump works whenever the engine is turning. The only difference is that when cold, it only circulates the lesser amount of oil in the crankcase, and the full volume of oil is only circulated when the engine warms up a bit and the thermostat opens the valve to the oil reservoir. That way the engine warms up quicker, as it's only initially 'warming' a small amount of oil!

Smile
 
  
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jonttt
Zolder


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 5099
Location: Liverpool

2014 Porsche Boxster 981

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something is not right you should be able to change gear easily in all temps Thumb
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Cameltoe & Heel
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1170
Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes oil pump works all the time as driven directly from the crank, otherwise a huge issue.

So first port of call here is your gearbox oil, do you know what's already in it?, and when it was last changed?, this is a basic question to everyone that owns a 993 and if you don't know the answer then you NEED to change your gearbox oil, i know and have had the great expense of dealing with the results of not changing the oil enough (not me but previous owners). Your gearbox is incredibly complex an if it wears or worst fails then you have a problem.

Porsche quote something silly in our service book for gearbox oil change, something like 50k miles and doesn't mention time. Like I say care for your box, your wallet will thank you for it.

Trev
 
  
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hopeydaze
Silverstone


Joined: 06 Jan 2012
Posts: 126
Location: Wargrave, Berkshire, UK


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read on the posts from 10 years ago about fully lifting the clutch pedal by hand and that somehow this makes it easier to change gear from cold. I tested it this morning (very cold and had to scrape ice off windscreen). Gear change was easy.

Agree with Endoman about bleeding the clutch.
 
  
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Will Statt
Nürburgring


Joined: 28 Aug 2003
Posts: 474
Location: Derbyshire


PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They do seem to vary a lot, and it's not unique to Porsche to be 'stiff when cold' Very Happy Other agricultural vehicles... tractors, land rovers etc are the same!
I'm lucky... mine is easy cold or warm. Part of the charm of these 'old' cars!
 
  
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johne
Monza


Joined: 07 Apr 2008
Posts: 160



PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:32 pm    Post subject: 993 gear change when cold Reply with quote

I had a problem with my gear shift on some of the long bends at Silverstone .I hadn't had the car long .and perhaps I was trying to rush the gears .after putting fresh gearbox oil in ive never had the same problem
 
  
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nickjonesn4
Nürburgring


Joined: 10 Aug 2017
Posts: 414
Location: Edinburgh


PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there

I had exactly the same issue with my car. When it went in for a diff to be fitted RPM found the gearbix oil was filthy and various bits and pieces were worn as a result and needed replaced. You can see what I am talking about here http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=124270&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

Cheers

Nick
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