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pietrzj
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 274



PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:49 pm    Post subject: Loctite as well as a new gasket?? Reply with quote

Hi,

Located a new oil leak from my RHS Lower cam cover and have ordered a new gasket.

I was going to clean up the faces, install gasket and torque up to 9 or 10NM, but have seen some images of people adding loctite as well as the new gasket.

Any views on pros and cons?
 
  
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Endoman
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 1397
Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something I am considering as one of mine is still leaking after a new gasket and careful preparation and assembly (Rennline).
Lh is fine but rh is wet again and dripping on heat exchanger. I am not unique in this experience and can see no obvious problem in using an additional sealant.
Bloody frustatrating as is is not an easy job. In my case the oil is coming up the retaining bolts.
I did the chain covers with Loctite and they are dry.
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pietrzj
Spa-Francorchamps


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess your cover is quite old then. I have read there are unreplacable rubber inserts with sleeves in the original plastic covers that the alan studs run through which can crack and seep after time.

I think mine is coming from the gadket rather than the bolts (hopefully). Not looking forward to doing the job if I find it could still leak from somewhere else on the seal so it might be belt and braces with the loctite.

Also worried that disturbing the cover may cause the sleeves to leak - but I am a bit of a worrier

nooo
 
  
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Endoman
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 1397
Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am using Solid Aluminium covers on the lowers from Rennline. If the original aluminium spacers come loose on the originals then, yes, the clamping force is lost.
Many say there is no need for the billet covers, replica and oe are available considerably cheaper. I must say I was dissappointed to find the billet covers still leak. I will try a little Loctite sealer around the base of the clamping setscrews next time but not on the gasket face. I was very careful to clean the mating surface and tighten evenly, progressively to the correct torque figures to no avail.
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infrasilver
Fast & Furious
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2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would always recommend a little to any mating faces known to leak but use it sparingly as seepage to the inner part of the engine can drop off if you use excessive amounts (when torqued it squeezes inwards) and can cause oil way blockages once they find their way around the internals.
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pietrzj
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 274



PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks,

I will give the two suspect areas around the alan studs close inspection when I remove it. Worst case is that I will need a new cam cover nooo
 
  
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993Type
Silverstone


Joined: 23 Oct 2012
Posts: 138



PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Endoman wrote:
I am using Solid Aluminium covers on the lowers from Rennline. If the original aluminium spacers come loose on the originals then, yes, the clamping force is lost.
Many say there is no need for the billet covers, replica and oe are available considerably cheaper. I must say I was dissappointed to find the billet covers still leak. I will try a little Loctite sealer around the base of the clamping setscrews next time but not on the gasket face. I was very careful to clean the mating surface and tighten evenly, progressively to the correct torque figures to no avail.


I've had this too sadly Endoman.
I spoke to unit 11 and they reckon some of the billet covers they have seen have the seal channel milled too deeply into the metal so seal is defeated. They suggest either skimming the billet to make the seal channel shallower or reverting to the OEM plastic covers.

It's annoying as I switched all the bolts and took great care on cleaning everything properly plus used the loctite, but still see weeping both sides. I might put the billet ones on the upper bank and buy new OEM for lower as I expect seal to be less of an issue if gravity is not working on them also.
 
  
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Cameltoe & Heel
Barcelona


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is good stuff gents:



Trev
 
  
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pietrzj
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 274



PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It turned out the original cover had been botch repaired around 2 studs at some point in the past. I had to replace the cover too in the end. All good now though. I will post some photos.

Jan
 
  
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Cameltoe & Heel
Barcelona


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1338
Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pietrzj wrote:
I guess your cover is quite old then. I have read there are unreplacable rubber inserts with sleeves in the original plastic covers that the alan studs run through which can crack and seep after time.

I think mine is coming from the gadket rather than the bolts (hopefully). Not looking forward to doing the job if I find it could still leak from somewhere else on the seal so it might be belt and braces with the loctite.

Also worried that disturbing the cover may cause the sleeves to leak - but I am a bit of a worrier

nooo


This is wrong, the gaskets are rubber and each bolt hole is encircled by the rubber gasket, therefore the gasket has to fail first for oil to get the bolt aperture. On a Porsche factory cover the bolts go through ally inserts, this to my mind doesn't help as the bolts and inserts cause corrosion between themselves as they're made of differing metals. This type of corrosion seems to happen even in the presence of oil.

You can use additional gasket paste if you like but I would be very careful in only using a nice thin film, that stuff is no good in your oil galleries, I personally didn't bother.

More importantly you need to ensure clinically clean mating surfaces free from rubber, oil and any contaminants, ensure the rubber gaskets sit perfectly in your covers, check and double check. Always use Porsche gaskets, and use new bolts. Then ensure you torque the bolts from the centre moving outwards, use two passes, i.e don't just torque middle bolt to 9.2nm and then move on, go half way to say 5nm first then go round again to 9.2nm (I think that's what the manual says) this should ensure a nice even pressure across the cover.

I use torque seal on my bolt heads too, but that's not mandatory it's just for my own reference.

 
  
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Tobesetc
Albert Park


Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 1571
Location: West London, UK


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When mine were fixed, Steve at Jaz told me there's no point getting the ali covers as the "standard" ones now have a new design which seems to fix the issue.

Mine have not leaked since... touch wood! Mind you, all have been replaced during my stewardship (once each) within the last 4 years, so I cannot vouch for it being a really long-term fix.
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Cameltoe & Heel
Barcelona


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
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Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tobesetc wrote:
When mine were fixed, Steve at Jaz told me there's no point getting the ali covers as the "standard" ones now have a new design which seems to fix the issue.


I didn't know that thanks Tobes

Trev
 
  
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Endoman
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 1397
Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignore the corrosion just look at that excess sealer.
from a totally bonkers post on Rennlist
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pietrzj
Spa-Francorchamps


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cameltoe & heel. I was not strictly wrong and when I upload the photos you will see what I mean. The alloy cylinder that the Alan stud clamps down on had corroded and was botch repaired unsuccessfully. The result was that tightening the Alan stud could not put sufficient pressure on the cover and hence the gasket and therefore the gasket did not seal. The alloy tube had detached from the cover ( though not obviously). Therefore I got oil seeping out between the alloy tube and the cover even though the gasket goes right around the stud on the underside. Hopefully the photo will explain in less than 1000 words 🙂
 
  
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Endoman
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 1397
Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Replaced the o/s upper cam cover gaskets this aft. There was a bad leak from the rear lower corner. It's a bit tricky to get off and easier to remove the bridge piece that feeds the rocker shafts. Newbridge and o-rings fited as well. A bit of an experiment, I used Molykote on the lid side and Curil T on the gasket face just the merest smear. The old rubber gaskets were rock hard but all the aluminium inserts were secure. Fingers crossed.
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pietrzj
Spa-Francorchamps


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the problem...
 



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pietrzj
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 274



PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

after initial cleaning...
 



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pietrzj
Spa-Francorchamps


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Posts: 274



PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

close up inspection shows botch...
 



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pietrzj
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 19 Mar 2014
Posts: 274



PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

replacement cover (and new gasket) fitted...
 



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Endoman
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intersting to note the new bolts are no longer cadmium plated.
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