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TonyC911
Monza


Joined: 06 Jun 2016
Posts: 208
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks


PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:30 pm    Post subject: My Car Dilemma... help! Reply with quote

Hi Guys, here's my latest car dilemma... I would appreciate some thoughts / opinions, as I can be rather impulsive!

About 26 months ago, I finally realized a boyhood dream and bought a 911 and I am pretty hooked! Very Happy

It is the spec I wanted, it had an engine rebuild and new clutch fitted by an OPC about 8 months before I bought it and I have kept it under warranty. It is a Gen1 2007 997S Manual with a FPSH. It is my weekend toy and I am not interested in using it as my daily driver.

I am expecting to clear my loan on the car next month and now I am contemplating what to do next;

1. Do nothing... just celebrate!
2. Sell the car soon with warranty, take another loan and buy a Gen2
3. Sell the car, take another loan and buy a newer Aston Vantage or Maserati Gran Turismo... life is short!

My heart is saying buy a Gen2 for a few reasons:

1. Better future residuals
2. Less flakey mechanics
3. I would much prefer a PDK gearbox
4. Some more modern improvements and slightly better performance

In my head I am now trying to rationalize spending another circa £14k (my max budget), in order to buy pretty much the same car which is only 2 years newer! Or, do I just move on next year and experience some other petrol fuelled dreams? Question
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Geezer 911
Trainee


Joined: 14 Aug 2017
Posts: 57
Location: Essex Boy


PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Buy a Gen 2!

Amazing machine!

I test drove a Gen 1 tip which I thought was decent at the time, I then decided to up my budget and brought a Gen 2 PDK.

Who knows if they will hold their value long term but a Gen 2 has my vote.
 
  
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-- 997 --
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Jun 2015
Posts: 1071



PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive spent far too much money on my Gen1 to personalise it how i want it including a full engine build, i have a massive list of mods that i have done and only a few left to go before im satisfied.. in honesty yes the gen2 is great and as ive recently changed my rear bumper and lights to a Gen2 and looks like it!! Just the front bumper GT3 Gen2 to do aswell as the lowering and new suspension etc. Could have gone for a Gen2 by now with the money i spent but as for a 997.1 if i decide to upgrade ill go straight for a 991 !! Another year or two maybe and i think ill upgrade but still enjoying my machine for now!! 😀👍 picture below of recent rear transformation!!!
 



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Scholester
Suzuka


Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 1030
Location: South West


PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:47 pm    Post subject: Re: My Car Dilemma... help! Reply with quote

TonyC911 wrote:
Hi Guys, here's my latest car dilemma... I would appreciate some thoughts / opinions, as I can be rather impulsive!

About 26 months ago, I finally realized a boyhood dream and bought a 911 and I am pretty hooked! Very Happy

It is the spec I wanted, it had an engine rebuild and new clutch fitted by an OPC about 8 months before I bought it and I have kept it under warranty. It is a Gen1 2007 997S Manual with a FPSH. It is my weekend toy and I am not interested in using it as my daily driver.

I am expecting to clear my loan on the car next month and now I am contemplating what to do next;

1. Do nothing... just celebrate!
2. Sell the car soon with warranty, take another loan and buy a Gen2
3. Sell the car, take another loan and buy a newer Aston Vantage or Maserati Gran Turismo... life is short!

My heart is saying buy a Gen2 for a few reasons:

1. Better future residuals
2. Less flakey mechanics
3. I would much prefer a PDK gearbox
4. Some more modern improvements and slightly better performance

In my head I am now trying to rationalize spending another circa £14k (my max budget), in order to buy pretty much the same car which is only 2 years newer! Or, do I just move on next year and experience some other petrol fuelled dreams? Question


You have the weekend car of your dreams. It's mechanically sound and is soon to cost you nothing. Keep it, Enjoy it, and save what you were paying out for a very rainy day.
Newer, more tech, larger and the latest is not always The brief.
Save, save, save and retire early! Grin
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msaif996
Trainee


Joined: 08 Dec 2010
Posts: 56
Location: 997.1 Turbo Conv. 6MT


PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are too many unknowns such as age, work industry, family, general risk taking, other expenditure etc ... to advise but I will tell you once thing, once you pay off your car and you actually own it you will look at it differently. It’s a good place to be if you can and you’ll soon experience the feeling. I suspect you’ll know what to do then. Best of luck with whatever you decide, any of the options will give you enjoyment.
 
  
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PGD
Trainee


Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Posts: 72



PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think enjoy the car for another year at least. Save while you do that. Then go scratch that Aston itch!

Changing what you have for a gen2 seems too small of a step to me, and Astons sound amazing!
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robbie1400
Newbie


Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 18
Location: Biot and Beccles


PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was in your position - perfectly content with a 997.1 but curious about the Aston experience. One week after swapping for a V8 Vantage I realised I'd made a horrible mistake. I am now in a 997.2 and couldn't be happier.

However, I think if I had kept the 997.1, I would now be getting a bit tired of the old fashioned GPS etc and the worries about reliability might be getting worse but I would have saved a bundle of cash.

The Aston was beautiful though.....
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PGD
Trainee


Joined: 18 Jul 2018
Posts: 72



PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

robbie1400 wrote:

However, I think if I had kept the 997.1, I would now be getting a bit tired of the old fashioned GPS etc and the worries about reliability might be getting worse but I would have saved a bundle of cash.


So Tony, spend £400 on upgrading the stereo unit and keep the 997.1 even longer Very Happy
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TonyC911
Monza


Joined: 06 Jun 2016
Posts: 208
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks


PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

robbie1400 wrote:
I was in your position - perfectly content with a 997.1 but curious about the Aston experience. One week after swapping for a V8 Vantage I realised I'd made a horrible mistake. I am now in a 997.2 and couldn't be happier.



Thanks for the responses so far guys! Much food for thought Question

Robbie, can you elaborate on why you didn't like the Aston compared to 911? Strong residuals are also key to any decision for me, are they on a par with the 911?

Thanks again!
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spongebob squarepants
Estoril


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I wouldn’t go for the gen 2 it’s too similar to what you’ve got. Actually I would buy a GTS! Job ✅ done
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14282
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony, heres my 2p for you to contemplate. I had an Aston Martin theres no doubt they are pretty but they are much more expensive to maintain and IMO the 911 is a better drivers car.

Now we move on to gen1 or gen2 this comes from someone who had a gen1 and now has a gen2 put aside my issues with the gen2 and lack of issues with the gen1 as thats just indavidual cars. the gen1 is a more focussed drivers car than the gen1 its more linier in the same way as guys with 996 say when compared to a 997.1 the older tech DOES make for a great drivers car less aids etc. theres a ton of stuff you can do easily to upgrade the gen1 tech and also to make it an even more fun driving car eg lowering it semi solid engine mounts etc. its only got another year before you cant warranty it any more so a few mods would then be appropriate. its got a new motor so no reason why it wont go on for years. the gen1 will not owe you a penny soon and that will be a great feeling why bog yourself down with more finance when you already have one of the best driving cars ever made. there are numerious times I regret changing from my gen1 , so much so that when it came up for sale recently at a dealer I went to look at it but just couldnt get my head round paying 6k more for it than I sold it for 18 months ago. but someone else liked it and brought it very quickly. but it just shows that these cars are still holding the price and slowly moving up. the Carreras are holding price better than the flagship cars due the the hugely overinflated prices of the GTs and Turbos when it went mad over the last couple of years and I think we will see an adjustment in the flagship cars whereas the Carreras didnt they just trickled up slowly. So in Summery IMO hang on to the gen1 and enjoy relativly cheap 911 ownership in a car thats done its depreciation Thumb Thumb
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TonyC911
Monza


Joined: 06 Jun 2016
Posts: 208
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks


PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
Tony, heres my 2p for you to contemplate. I had an Aston Martin theres no doubt they are pretty but they are much more expensive to maintain and IMO the 911 is a better drivers car.

So in Summery IMO hang on to the gen1 and enjoy relativly cheap 911 ownership in a car thats done its depreciation Thumb Thumb


Thanks Phil, that is a really interesting take on my situation!

Wise words! Thumb

On reflection, I think what does mar my driving experience is that I find my cars gearbox very notchy (especially from cold) and not as slick as I expected. Perhaps I should investigate that further, before I make any rash decisions??
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segart
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 28 Jan 2015
Posts: 320
Location: Jersey - Britains South Sea Isle


PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony that box is indeed notchy from cold, but in my experience at any rate is a work of art once the oil is a bit warmed up. I would echo some of the comments above. You have a debt free machine and one of the best. Enjoy it, at least for another year or two. Then if you feel the need go for something else.

I had an Austin once. It wasn't the Martin (it was a Maestro if memory serves) and it was rubbish. Stick with the Porsche!
Cheers Rick
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nigel99
Barcelona


Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1250
Location: Berkshire

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't want to run a Gen 1 without warranty and I believe that opc warranty is available for cars up to 15 years old so if that's correct you're good for another 3 years or so. After that it only takes a sooty tailpipe and that's £10k gone, either from your savings or the value of your car.

It might be easier/more profitable to sell your car now with some warranty left Question

The PDK on the gen 2 is very good, the dfi engine less prone to implode and the PCM3 more modern looking with some good features (sat nav is crap). To the untrained eye it looks identical to your gen 1. Are these differences worth the upgrade costs? Personally, I think so for the PDK, however I must admit that I have never driven a gen 1 tip.

One of the downsides of the gen 2 is that it doesn't sound as good as the gen 1 so you should look for cars that already have PSE and then get a center muffler bypass (approximately £600 fitted) to bring it up to the same as the gen 1 PSE.
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14282
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TonyC911 wrote:
Phil 997 wrote:
Tony, heres my 2p for you to contemplate. I had an Aston Martin theres no doubt they are pretty but they are much more expensive to maintain and IMO the 911 is a better drivers car.

So in Summery IMO hang on to the gen1 and enjoy relativly cheap 911 ownership in a car thats done its depreciation Thumb Thumb


Thanks Phil, that is a really interesting take on my situation!

Wise words! Thumb

On reflection, I think what does mar my driving experience is that I find my cars gearbox very notchy (especially from cold) and not as slick as I expected. Perhaps I should investigate that further, before I make any rash decisions??


Tony, the thing with the tip box is it learns your driving style so unless your hooning everywhere it adopts a lazy style ,this can be reset by a quick kickdown but it soon releans the lazy town driving style ,I fitted a sprint booster to my tip gen1 it was the older 3 mode type and the controller was small enought to hide in my unused ashtray but this cheap devise fools the tip into thinking your driving more aggressivly and keeps the tip box in a more alert mode . the other thing to consider is changing the gearbox fluids do a bit of research and look at some of the racing fluids I used a gulf performance fluid this may well remove some of the notchiness as would semi solid engine mounts . and poly transmision mounts (but they do add some NVH) but its a bit of a trade off and does make the car feel more GT like. lastly I did read that you can have the tip box tuned but I didnt do this as the changes I made were enough for me. Thumb Thumb if you can't face radical mods just yet then try replacing your engine mounts and maybe transmission mounts with new OE and then report back on the tip box ,I think you will be surprised .dont forget the engine doesnt sit on the mount like most cars it hangs from the mount and its been hanging on those mounts with all that weight since 2007 no wonder they have stretched a bit and perished and as such the gearbox is now not as smooth as it was when new. Thumb
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Les
Österreich


Joined: 03 Mar 2014
Posts: 896
Location: East Sussex

2008 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From my experience, as long as it's not an early model, the Aston is much more reliable than a Porsche. The engines are good for at least 250K, and the average long-distance fuel consumption is surprisingly close to a 911.

Having had a couple of PDK Gen2's and an Aston, I can say they are very different. On a twisty mountain road, the 911 is king, on the other hand, the Aston makes you feel like a king.

If you love out and out performance driving then go for a Gen2 911 with a PDK - it's superb. Get a centre bypass and a gundo (or let Paul at PCW modify your centre box whilst he does the gundo) and it will sound as good as it drives.

But if your the type who occasionally drives like a hoon, but must of the time has the 'fast enough for points but too slow for prison' style then its worth looking at an Aston - you only live once - or twice Wink

Also if you're a bit shy, or like to fade into the background then I'd also go for a 911, as the Aston gets a lot of attention.

People will come up to you in the petrol station and talk about your car, they will shout 'nice car' all the time, women with give you a cheeky smile and a wink, and you will get lots of people taking photos or driving along beside you videoing you - which is embarrassing when you are picking your nose.

Alternatively, you could just keep your car and the cash.


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Last edited by Les on Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:20 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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robbie1400
Newbie


Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 18
Location: Biot and Beccles


PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As has been said above, the Porsche is the "drivers' car" and the Aston is a "feelgood car".

My problem with the Aston was its relative lack of sophistication - sure it is beautiful and beautifully made but it feels like a big clumsy lorry to drive compared to the 997. And they do feel big. Manoeuvring in tight spaces was always a heart in mouth experience - if you go for the Sportshift version you will need to master left foot braking. Other things to annoy you are the instruments which are illegible in sunlight and the even more archaic satnav. Also as mentioned before, the costs of maintenance can be eye watering. Check the price for shock absorbers (the fronts will be leaking) as an example.

The 997.2 I have now feels so much more complete and is unbeatable on a fast cross country run. Of course there are things that are not perfect and they are way more common than a Vantage if such things matter to you.

As Les says the attention you get in an Aston comes as a bit of a surprise. There is a lot of love for all things Aston Martin and people never stop telling you so. Each journey becomes an occasion. I never used it to pop to the supermarket for example whereas the Porsche is used all the time.

It is a difficult decision.

Incidentally a friend who has the Maserati says "never again".




[/quote]
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Les
Österreich


Joined: 03 Mar 2014
Posts: 896
Location: East Sussex

2008 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

robbie1400 wrote:
more archaic satnav.


Anyone with a Gen1 can sympathise lol.

You can get it upgraded to a touchscreen voice-activated Garmin unit with wifi updates for £599 which, when you compare it to the £230 Porsche charge gen2 owners just for a map update is not bad. The standard Aston map update is £29.

https://astoninstallations.com/accessories/garmin-navigation-upgrade/
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TonyC911
Monza


Joined: 06 Jun 2016
Posts: 208
Location: High Wycombe, Bucks


PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
TonyC911 wrote:
Phil 997 wrote:
Tony, heres my 2p for you to contemplate. I had an Aston Martin theres no doubt they are pretty but they are much more expensive to maintain and IMO the 911 is a better drivers car.

So in Summery IMO hang on to the gen1 and enjoy relativly cheap 911 ownership in a car thats done its depreciation Thumb Thumb


Thanks Phil, that is a really interesting take on my situation!

Wise words! Thumb

On reflection, I think what does mar my driving experience is that I find my cars gearbox very notchy (especially from cold) and not as slick as I expected. Perhaps I should investigate that further, before I make any rash decisions??


Tony, the thing with the tip box is it learns your driving style so unless your hooning everywhere it adopts a lazy style ,this can be reset by a quick kickdown but it soon releans the lazy town driving style ,I fitted a sprint booster to my tip gen1 it was the older 3 mode type and the controller was small enought to hide in my unused ashtray but this cheap devise fools the tip into thinking your driving more aggressivly and keeps the tip box in a more alert mode . the other thing to consider is changing the gearbox fluids do a bit of research and look at some of the racing fluids I used a gulf performance fluid this may well remove some of the notchiness as would semi solid engine mounts . and poly transmision mounts (but they do add some NVH) but its a bit of a trade off and does make the car feel more GT like. lastly I did read that you can have the tip box tuned but I didnt do this as the changes I made were enough for me. Thumb Thumb if you can't face radical mods just yet then try replacing your engine mounts and maybe transmission mounts with new OE and then report back on the tip box ,I think you will be surprised .dont forget the engine doesnt sit on the mount like most cars it hangs from the mount and its been hanging on those mounts with all that weight since 2007 no wonder they have stretched a bit and perished and as such the gearbox is now not as smooth as it was when new. Thumb


Thanks again to everyone for your opinions and even better your real world experiences!

Phil - thanks for your comprehensive response, however I should point out that my 997 is a manual Embarassed
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tom_nieto
Monza


Joined: 08 Jan 2017
Posts: 187



PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Option 1! If your car has had an engine rebuild and is a good example then I wouldn’t change it to a 997.2. Concentrate the cash on making it a great gen 1 with better ICE/satnav, subtle upgrades and freshening the paint or interior leather. Invest in a SSK to really make the manual shine. If it’s a weekend toy I wouldn’t upgrade it to a gen 2 for extra performance as unless you’re timing laps I doubt the difference would be so obvious on the road between the two... especially a well sorted gen 1.

If however you’re wanting to explore something other than Porsche then go for it! Aston’s are amazing but crazy expensive to run in terms of servicing. The Maserati makes an amazing noise, but it comes with expensive servicing too.
 
  
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