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mark pearce
Approved Trader


Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 2725
Location: Nationwide


PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just arrived and being inspected at Porsche
https://www.stirlings.co.uk/Cars/For-Sale/2012-Porsche-911-991-Carrera-S-PDK-Coupe-11-300-Miles-Great-Spec/30

And of course all my cars have a full paint correction Zymol detail as part of my preparation process
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911Time
Newbie


Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Posts: 39
Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a lovely looking car Mark - if only it was closer to the spec I'm after and wasn't black Sad
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I'm not a perfectionist - I just want everything done 'Right' Wink
 
  
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MattyR
Montreal


Joined: 21 Sep 2015
Posts: 552
Location: Somewhere Nr Tunbridge Wells, Kent


PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:18 pm    Post subject: What level of prep would you expect from a dealer? Reply with quote

I ask because I am looking for a Gen2 997. I’ve looked at a couple from the higher end of the dealer spectrum (not naming names but, gentlemen, you’d be bloody shocked, I can tell you) and I have come away feeling rather deflated about the whole affair. I have a good budget of £35k - £37k, my preference is for a standard NB Carrera.

I gave fair warning to one dealer that I would visit (5 days notice) and the car was just not popping. Lots of swirl marks and scratches, peeling lacquer on wheels, centrecaps bubbling, grubby interior with coffee droplets on knobs (these guys are supposed to be one of the best!).

Now I am not a hugely fussy chap. I mean, I can put up with a few scratches on a ten year old car. But items like wheels, centre caps? Easy, cheap fix. Kinda grubby interior? Give it a wipe FFS. Messy engine bay with coolant droplets on header tank? 20 min detail! tops! Sort these things and one particular dealer would have had my 35 large today but I’ve been left with a bitter taste in my mouth.

Mechanically the car I refer to above seemed great but it does leave one wonedering; if the fundamentals such as presentation aren’t addressed then there can’t be much hope for what I can’t see.

Am I just being a picky git? I know dealers have margins but I run my own building company, and I have my projects professionally cleaned on handover. The dealer today even suggested that I can titivate the car at my leisure when I suggested the interior should be cleaned better prior to purchase. Almost spat out my espresso Rolling Eyes
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Richtw
Silverstone


Joined: 27 Feb 2018
Posts: 105
Location: Winchester


PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can only give my own experience of 2 dealers. I was amazed at the level of prep on my own car from RSJ, was perfect when I picked it up, literally perfect and again I am very fussy! The prep and finish was better than I have had on new cars from BMW, Mercedes and Audi! I have also been mighty impressed with the prep at Harbour Cars.

Want to name and shame? I am curious now!!
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HSC911
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 5553
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone asked this just the other day...I will look for the thread Thumb
 
  
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HSC911
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 5553
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found it Thumb

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=130361

MOD COMMENT: Threads have been merged.
 
  
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MattyR
Montreal


Joined: 21 Sep 2015
Posts: 552
Location: Somewhere Nr Tunbridge Wells, Kent


PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the linky. Most informative.

Rich, I can’t say who the dealer is because we are only taking prep and that can be highly subjective Thumb

I’m just a bit miffed because when I restore a property for my business it’s tip-top. Any snags are sorted without question. When it’s comes to a car it’s okay to leave something you know is a bit pants and only sort it if the customer asks? It saddens me.
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14429
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt, my view is these guys sell cars and have no idea how we want them . a PPI will tell us if the important stuff is good , your eye will tell if its basically ok but poorly prepped if thats good negotiate a fair price. I then spend a few hundred getting a detailer to sort the paint etc this is his job and he knows best what to do, I would rather my guy do it, the the dealers use some back steet numpty whos cheap to hide bits . same with alloys a refurb by your trusted guys will be a few hundred quid . Last car I brought I actually told the dealer not to clean or prep it as all he would do was push a grit covered rag around and make it worse, picked it up and took it straight to my detailer lol. Dealer said he pays £25 to get dents out FFS you just know the numpty thats going to turn up, I pay £75 a dent but they are the best at what they do. I want the interior as it is for me to sort really dont want some idiot applying leather paint to hide wear marks thats going to come off on my clothes I would rather get it done properly and even panels retrimmed if it needed it.
We must accept that apart from the few known and trusted car dealers the rest will use the cheapest method to cover stuff up , I have talked to guys I know dealers come in with a damaged wing etc want to pay £50 blow it over punt the car on and its your problem when it goes flat or the filler sinks in 6 months time. better to see the car as it is in the raw and be able to access what it will take to make it what you want and use it to negotiate the price. Thumb Thumb Thumb
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DynoMike
Barcelona


Joined: 25 May 2012
Posts: 1485
Location: The Cotswolds

2003 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richtw wrote:
I can only give my own experience of 2 dealers. I was amazed at the level of prep on my own car from RSJ, was perfect when I picked it up, literally perfect and again I am very fussy! The prep and finish was better than I have had on new cars from BMW, Mercedes and Audi! I have also been mighty impressed with the prep at Harbour Cars.

Want to name and shame? I am curious now!!



Yep, mine was presented like a brand new car by RSJ when I picked it up, I was literally stunned into silence, Joel had to ask me what I thought, but my mouth wouldn’t operate properly to answer! I was so shocked at how good it looked. Awesome dealer Thumb
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rakerone
Newbie


Joined: 26 Dec 2007
Posts: 17



PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly give RSJ a visit I’ve brought 2 911s from them and both were amazingly prepared and don’t forget the in-house aftercare they offer
 
  
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Clanky
Österreich


Joined: 24 Aug 2012
Posts: 920
Location: Scotland

2007 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to expect pristine condition, but sadly that's not the case.
I think most sales staff are not enthusiasts & therefore don't look at them the same way.

I know my local Audi use a drive through "Scratch O Matic" which has caused arguments in the past. I can't speak for my OPC though, as I've never had it washed by them.
I do remember before they changed premises, there was one guy going around washing the cars in the mornings with just a bucket of dirty water & a sponge...

Surprised
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911Time
Newbie


Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Posts: 39
Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having never bought from an OPC before, I had imagined that being Official Porsche Centres there would be a minimum standard of presentation and that this would naturally be quite high - in essence a paint condition element of the 111 point check that would have covered paint chips, scratches and swirl marks.

I've viewed cars at a number of OPCs over the past few weeks and not only does the standard of presentation vary massively but I've been amazed that paint defects that I would have expected to be rectified before putting a car on sale have not been attended to - if I were buying an everyday motor from some back street garage that might be acceptable but not when spending £££s on a Porsche and knowing that you're being asked to pay a premium to buy one from an OPC.

Last weekend I viewed another car at an OPC which was overall in very good condition save for some very obvious stone chips, which were highly visible as they were in prominent places. To be frank they stood out like a sore thumb on what was otherwise good paintwork. No-one would have bought that car without wanting those chips repaired, so why not just do it to the best standard possible before showing the car?

I'm sure not all OPCs are the same but generally it seems the independent dealers, who properly prepare & detail their vehicles before sale, have a much clearer understanding of the standards we expect, than a lot of the main dealers do - I had expected better from the OPCs.
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Mark


I'm not a perfectionist - I just want everything done 'Right' Wink
 
  
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Counter Of Beans
Silverstone


Joined: 10 May 2018
Posts: 112
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I have to agree with you 911Time, I suspect that some OPC's have become lazy due to their local monopoly and the popularity of the brand. Incidentally, I used to have a Range Rover, and it's exactly the same story at JLR main dealers. I'd go further and say that some JLR dealers (yes that's you, Stratstone) are utter clowns who are shamed by good independents - the latter actually know how to fix the product (vital with Rangies) whereas the main dealers haven't got a clue. And that incompetence extends to the prep of used cars.

I went to see a 2014 Range Rover priced at £60k and described as "in exceptional condition inside and out". Well, even Stevie Wonder could tell that was a lie! Paintwork swirls, scratches, a couple of small dents and a stain on the driver's seat. So it's not just Porsche.

If you really want a car in genuine mint condition you need to buy privately from a proper enthusiast, or someone like Stirlings/RSJ/Harbour, in my opinion.
 
  
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isysman
Zolder


Joined: 22 Apr 2011
Posts: 5721
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I collected my 911 Turbo from Wilmslow the prep was flawless.
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Frenchmeister
Suzuka


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 1227
Location: Beautiful Cumbria.

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO Porsche OPC' s and a lot of the "specilaists" are not enthusiasts and the cars are just metal money, most punters won't notice anyway, it looks shiny and this a posh showroom so it must be okay ?
Even some of the respected specialist just polish in profit, I saw a car that had just been px to them asked how much they would retail it for and I was gobsmacked, it would go for a full mechanical check and a top end detail and would see thousands profit, I was there to buy a car with a mate, the car was great but not perfect some deep scratch marks that would not polish out and it turned out some of the mechanical work done by their specialist was of dubious quality, they had changed the tandem pump and used bolts that were in the spares tin two of which were too long and never fastened the unit correctly obviously"...........ffs nooo
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Sweet
Silverstone


Joined: 02 Jun 2015
Posts: 126
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire911 wrote:
I noticed at Wilmslow OPC that cars were not detailed - the salesman said they would all be fully prepped by Road & Race or a local independent detailer prior to a sale. But who wants to start talking a sale on a car full of swirls?


I went to look at a Black GTS a few months ago at Wilmslow and it was in a shocking state,didn’t even bother speaking to the salesman about it never mind thinking of buying it.
 
  
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911Time
Newbie


Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Posts: 39
Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about anyone else but I've always viewed Porsche as something special - in the same vein as Ferrari, Aston Martin, Lamborghini etc but with the particular brand attributes that Porsche has always stood for. In my head buying a Porsche should be a special experience and it seemed reasonable therefore to expect a certain level of presentation befitting the marque.

Obviously a used car with more than a few thousand miles is likely to have picked up some marks but whether they are swirl marks, light scratches or stone chips most people would expect them to have either been dealt with by the owner during their time with the car or by the dealer prior to sale however it seems that with the exception of some of the independent specialists and one or two OPCs our expectations as enthusiasts aren't being met by the majority of Porsche retailers.

Perhaps what we have here is a perfect storm of circumstances - cars increasingly being bought on lease by people who aren't enthusiasts (in the traditional sense) who, knowing they will be handing the car back in 2-3 years don't have quite the same vested interest as we do in maintenance/body care AND car retailers who are perhaps part of a larger dealership group, especially those that include the sale of more run of the mill brands, whereby what is deemed an acceptable condition in which to retail a Ford/Vauxhall etc is also deemed acceptable for a Porsche? Question
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Mark


I'm not a perfectionist - I just want everything done 'Right' Wink
 
  
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911911911
Newbie


Joined: 19 May 2018
Posts: 3



PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately some official dealerships act like box shifters or are about as honest and up front as estate agents (sorry to any reputable estate agents out there - quite a rarity). Caveat emptor always. Some dealerships merely patch and plaster. I could mention names but probably best not.
 
  
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Speedy
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 307
Location: West Yorks


PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it depends on the franchise dealer. When I was buying year and half old porsche Macan for my wife I noticed rubber round the window was going slightly green. Clearly car was not garaged and it was rain. I pointed it out and they rectified it and I bought it. Just wondered if it was me, as a dealer, I would not have represented the car like that, only needed small correction. I guess they take the chance, save labour and cost, they sell as is or they put it part of sale agreement to address. Not best practice though! Question
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MJA911
Magny-Cours


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
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Location: Berkshire

2012 Porsche 991 Carrera

PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree

...although it’s surprising that Porsche UK don’t have pre-sale prep standards that OPCs have to sign up to and implement in order to be an OPC that’s allowed to sell approved used cars. It’s their brand the OPCs are representing after all, maybe they do and some OPCs (and franchises) wing it and some do it as they should, it would exlpain why it seems random.

The indies obviously decide for themselves, the one I’ve bought serveral cars from seem to have a pragmatic approach whereby they rectify cosmetic issues that detract from the car (e.g. front end paintwork, dinged wheels) before presenting for sale, but final prep, including mechanical inspection and anything noticed when viewing is done after sale is agreed. It’s always worked well for me, and them, as I always go back 👍
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