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911Time
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Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Posts: 39
Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:15 pm    Post subject: When buying from dealers what condition do you expect? Reply with quote

Hi All,

Went to have a look at another couple of cars at the weekend (in my search for a nice 991.1) and despite appearing to be well sorted mechanically, I was quite surprised at the poor condition of the paintwork on both cars - especially given their asking price.

Both were only a few years old, with low miles but presented with noticeable swirl marks and some deeper scratches that wouldn't be capable of being buffed out Surprised Surprised to be frank my 55,000 mile Merc was in far better condition when I sold it and a lot less money!

Having viewed a number of 997 and 991 models now at OPCs, I'm starting to wonder whether I'm going to find the sort of car, in the sort of condition I'm after through the official network. I know some owners simply don't care for their cars but I'd expected the standard of presentation to be much higher at an official dealership - is it me? Dont know
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cableguy
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Joined: 10 Sep 2007
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Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd guess the majority of 991's in OPC's are part exchanges from high flyers, Company Directors etc. hence they have usually been cleaned down the local car wash or supermarket car wash which results in the poor paint appearance.

Obviously these cars are usually serviced regularly and looked after by their local OPC, however the downside is they'll need a damn good detail to look their best again. I would have thought that the OPC would sort the aesthetics side of things if and when a customer was satisfied with everything else.
No point in the OPC detailing the car if it could be stood on a windy and wet forecourt for a few weeks...

C.
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Rhodris-dad
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Joined: 28 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe they are trying to save a few quid Dont know

My recent purchase..... before buying, I looked around it and noticed some blemishes/scratches (black car), so I pointed them out to the salesman.

When I picked up the car it was perfect.

There is no excuse for them not to have the car perfect.

Next time you see a poorly prepped car, point it out to someone!
 
  
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Norfolk & Idea
Barcelona


Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 1346
Location: South Yorkshire


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Condition of Cars at OPCs Reply with quote

911Time wrote:
Hi All,

Went to have a look at another couple of cars at the weekend (in my search for a nice 991.1) and despite appearing to be well sorted mechanically, I was quite surprised at the poor condition of the paintwork on both cars - especially given their asking price.

Both were only a few years old, with low miles but presented with noticeable swirl marks and some deeper scratches that wouldn't be capable of being buffed out Surprised Surprised to be frank my 55,000 mile Merc was in far better condition when I sold it and a lot less money!

Having viewed a number of 997 and 991 models now at OPCs, I'm starting to wonder whether I'm going to find the sort of car, in the sort of condition I'm after through the official network. I know some owners simply don't care for their cars but I'd expected the standard of presentation to be much higher at an official dealership - is it me? Dont know


No, I don't think it's you. We all like to see a flawless finish on our P&J.

When I viewed my current 997.2 turbo at the OPC I noticed light swirls all over the shop. Flawed paintwork really shows through under showroom down lights. But I knew it wasn't a show stopper and could easily be sorted by me with a decent machine polish.

I wouldn't really consider this neglect by a previous owner. It's very easy to dull your paintwork if you don't clean it properly using the correct techniques.
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Slayer
Indianapolis


Joined: 29 Dec 2010
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Location: United Kingdom


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One 'proper ' wash from an OPC is usually enough to wreck the paintwork.
Learnt it the hard way...
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chicb
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Joined: 01 Jun 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When my cars go in for service, I tell them not to wash it. I also stick a post it note on the steering wheel & dash stating do not wash. This usually works, however on two occasions from the same dealer they left me a nice present of oily handprints on the light coloured seats. The second time the Service manager delivered the car back to me proudly saying "we didn't wash it". When I pointed to the oily handprints it was "oh never noticed that, suppose you will want me to take it back then" Question
 
  
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MJA911
Magny-Cours


Joined: 10 Dec 2013
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Location: Berkshire

2012 Porsche 991 Carrera

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems to me paintwork finish is hit and miss with OPCs, they don’t seem to include bodywork detailing in their sales prep, unlike top independents like 911v, Stirlings, RPM, Harbour Cars. I’d want it done or I’d walk, they may have the Porsche brand behind them and the 2 year warranty, but their prices and trade in allowances more than reflect that.
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911Time
Newbie


Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Posts: 39
Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to clarify about the condition of the paint on these cars, I'm not talking about a few areas, I mean spider web swirl marks ALL OVER the bodywork, with quite a few areas showing deeper scratches that would definitely require repainting.

I'd gone to see both cars with a view to putting them on my shortlist (despite the fact they were above my original budget) but the paint condition on both left me with serious doubts and although I mentioned the marring to both sales people the overall response was 'it's a used car' - one has since returned to say the deeper marks would be attended to in order to seal the deal but that still leaves the rest of the paint to be corrected.

In years gone by, I would've considered breaking out my Porter Cable DA if a car weren't quite up to scratch Wink but nowadays I'm not up to that and have a good detailer local to me however, as good as he is there's only so much paint damage he can 'correct' without requiring fresh paint and that's not something I want or feel the need to get into on a car that's £££s and just a few years old.

I was just shocked to find vehicles in that condition at OPCs where I would have expected the cars to be 'the best of the best'...and wondered whether this was indicative of cars at other OPCs around the country?

As far as cars being washed at dealers is concerned, you're right - whatever the marque, most dealer valeters have absolutely no idea how to wash a car properly (snow foam, two bucket, grit guard??? Do Not Know) or they're paid peanuts and just can't be bothered: I'd always hang a sign inside saying 'please do not wash or valet' and would reiterate that to the receptionist - just saved the aggro.
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BChivs
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 02 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it depends on the franchise....From my experience they vary so much even though you would expect a standardised prep level. I have more experience with BMW than Porsche....
I bought a year old 3 series from Halliwell Jones and was really badly prepped with swirls everywhere...I bought it over the phone as I was assured the car was perfect. In the end I had it detailed after picking it up and sent them the bill! They paid so obviously couldn't argue!
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Gottans
Monza


Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 210



PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can kind of understand any dealer not wanting to spend money up front getting a car perfect but OPC's do charge a premium and customers do have an expectation.

I agree with the do not wash view, I am 'now' very firm on the do not wash request whenever the car goes into a dealer due to having a 'bad' experience.

What does irritate is the presumption that you want your car washed by the minimum wage, fastest valeter ever to touch a gritty wet sponge brigade, I don't.
 
  
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The return of Marty Wild
Suzuka


Joined: 04 Nov 2016
Posts: 1091



PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of issues to contend with here.

In my limited experience, you get better paintwork buying from an enthusiast. Never bought from OPC so cant comment on them directly, but recently on buying my other half a car, car dealers had cars presented badly and then when I brought it up, they said “well obviously we’d get that sorted as part of the sale”. Guess as stated, they don’t want to throw money at a car that might sit for a while. Furthermore, if the new buyer doesn’t mention it, they’re quids in.

Would expect more from OPC in fairness. Having dealt with Tom at 911v, I can only imagine everyone of their cars is in the condition stated.

As for why are the cars like this... I put a lot of it down to everyone having the cars on finance, knowing they’ll chop it in after 3 years tops. Hence you see tasty metal having its paint removed regularly at supermarkets.

As for me, I’m metalicous with my paintwork, no one else washes my cars. I leave notes if the car is in for anything. Promised myself I’d never have another black car, the upkeep is horrendous. Then got said other half a black car, taken me 3 weeks and I’ve given in to a back breaking detail session. Started only a few hours ago, I just can’t help myself.
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911Time
Newbie


Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Posts: 39
Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure there are many exceptions but as with other famous marques, access to easy finance has allowed a lot of non-enthusiasts to get into premium metal when they have no real interest in looking after the car.... it's just something to use/abuse and be seen in.

I hate it when people assume when they've opened their door into yours in a car park, it will all be fine because they think yours is on finance too and you aren't that bothered either... Wall
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Last edited by 911Time on Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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squelch
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Jun 2016
Posts: 335
Location: Bucks


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know there’s much love for the Indies here, but when I looked at a GTS at one of the aforementioned Indies, its condition was disappointing. It looked like it’d had a very hard life with multiple heavy stone chips requiring bumper, bonnet and wings painting and significant gravel rash on rear quarters. When I discussed this with a view to buying the car I was told “the car presents well and is highly retailable.” A couple of days later I went and bought a one owner, better spec’d car from OPC Bristol which was in far better condition for only a couple of grand more which felt like a bargain in comparison and of course had the 2 year warranty etc. On this occasion I felt more valued and respected at the OPC and their offering was far better prepared.

I have no particular preference towards OPC or Indy and I think all you can do is scour the classifieds and then scrutinise the ones that make your shortlist and try to achieve the deal that’s right for you. It’s worth persevering to find what may seem like a diamond in the rough, so good luck with your search. Just like dating, sometimes fun can be had checking out the wrong ones before you find the right one.
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Rhodris-dad
Montreal


Joined: 28 Nov 2013
Posts: 551
Location: RHYL


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

911Time wrote:
I'm sure there are many exceptions but as with other famous marques, access to easy finance has allowed a lot of non-enthusiasts to get into premium metal when they have no real interest in looking after the car.... it's just something to use/abuse and be seen in.

I hate it when people assume when they've opened their door into yours in a car park, it will all be fine because they think yours is on finance too and you aren't that bothered either... Wall

Respect other people's property or deal with the consequences. Gun Fire


In the 80’s, yuppies used to drive red turbos, they never bothered to wash them....they used to crash them instead Floor
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HSC911
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

squelch wrote:
Just like dating, sometimes fun can be had checking out the wrong ones before you find the right one.


Floor

Thumb
 
  
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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3743



PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I noticed at Wilmslow OPC that cars were not detailed - the salesman said they would all be fully prepped by Road & Race or a local independent detailer prior to a sale. But who wants to start talking a sale on a car full of swirls?
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Diggermeister
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 26 May 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not just used stuff, it's not just Porsche, and it's not just the UK.

I was working in Munich the other year and, as it was on the way to the hotel, I popped into the Mercedes boutique type store in Odeonsplatz one evening. They had a nice, brand new SLS GTR, with rather fetching metallic black paintwork which, on even rudimentary inspection, looked like it had been polished with a housebrick.
 
  
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911Time
Newbie


Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Posts: 39
Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire911 wrote:
I noticed at Wilmslow OPC that cars were not detailed - the salesman said they would all be fully prepped by Road & Race or a local independent detailer prior to a sale. But who wants to start talking a sale on a car full of swirls?


Thank you, that's my point precisely Thumb
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Mark


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911Time
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Joined: 25 Sep 2018
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Location: Staffordshire


PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggermeister wrote:
.... looked like it had been polished with a housebrick.


Floor like it Thumb

Maybe there's a pan-european approach then by all dealer valeters - 1 bucket, 1 litre of water, 1 squeeze of fairy & 1 bag of sharp sand Grin
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Mark


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911Time
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rhodris-dad wrote:
In the 80’s, yuppies used to drive red turbos, they never bothered to wash them....they used to crash them instead Floor


Floor

I thought they used to change them every day to match their braces... Wink
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