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Stotty
Silverstone


Joined: 17 Dec 2009
Posts: 141
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:31 am    Post subject: 200 Cell Cats Reply with quote

Anyone got any experience of these?

I've read some stuff about improvements in sound and performance.

Top Gear have a couple of options (with or without X pipe) that look reasonably priced.
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2000 996, C2, manual, arctic/metropole, sunroof delete, Koni shocks, H&R -30 spring, Cup wheel, 170k miles. 2018 Touareg RLine Plus
 
  
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Thefinn
Österreich


Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 954
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had the TG cross over CATS on two different cars now and you will notice straight away that your car performs and breathers better, making this probably one of the best mods with regards to gains on an NA car. When it comes to the sound both times i have fitted them i have changed the headers at the same time so this will change the noise as well but if you read the many threads everyone seems to like the improvement, straight through's are not as loud as the cross over but both will make your car louder!
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Stotty
Silverstone


Joined: 17 Dec 2009
Posts: 141
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had new headers and back boxes last year (Dansk), so this would be an add on to that. I've also done the helmholtz bypass/silicon intake as well.
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Thefinn
Österreich


Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 954
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The CATS will be the last peace of the puzzle then on the exhaust and for me the CATS were defiantly a worth while mod giving noticeable gains.

When you changed the intake did you get yourself a new BMC filter, this will help things breath a bit better and improve sound? you might want to look at larger plenum and TB as that will your next step on the mod list
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coullstar
Barcelona


Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 1307
Location: Aberdeen/Torphins


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They will make the car louder, not massively but a noticeable amount.

One thing to not with the x-pipe is that is smooths out the sound so you do loose a little of the flat six noise however they do sound great at higher rpms. Thats for x-pipe in general.

Ive got the Topgear ones and value for money is there, wasn't quite happy with noise to start with but they have changed after a few miles and I like it.
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Stotty
Silverstone


Joined: 17 Dec 2009
Posts: 141
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've looked at filters, but stock at the moment.

Plenums and TB's are not on the agenda - trying to keep the mods to a reasonable price!
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Thefinn
Österreich


Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 954
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The filter is worth looking at as its a cheap mod and is cleanable so doesn't need replacing, i am not saying it gives massive power gains but you car will just feel as if it breathing easier and sound a little better as well. CP4L have a performance parts sale on at the moment so you can get one for under £80 you might even find one cheaper on ebay.

I will also PM you a link as i have seen some cheap TG 200 cel cats for sale that i was going to take a punt on but you have me feeling generous so i will send it over Thumb
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Stotty
Silverstone


Joined: 17 Dec 2009
Posts: 141
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Smile

Ordered a BMC filter.
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PHS
Trainee


Joined: 03 Mar 2018
Posts: 64
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As others have said, the 200cell Cats are a part of the 3-piece puzzle. I fitted them alongside new manifolds and boxes, so I couldn't say for sure what different they make on their own, but the full exhaust makes a huge difference in pick-up, sound and overall performance.

Definitely worth doing, but also budget for new O2 sensors as there's a risk they'll be stuck to the old Cats.

I should add that my overall economy improved dramatically when I had all mine done Cool
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2004 996 C4S Manual
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Added: Rennsport semi-solid engine mounts, 997 shifter, Full TopGear s/s exhaust system
 
  
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14527
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have nothing to add its all been said Grin now just go and get yourself some 200 cell cats Grin Grin Thumb
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911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1909



PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the 200 cell X-pipe, it made a big difference to the sound, all for the better in my view. Performance is subjective, but it did feel like it revved more happily. That may, however, be down to the fact that it sounded so good at higher revs I held it in gear longer than I had done before, of course.
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maldren
Österreich


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 940



PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are the pros and cons of the X-pipe vs straight through. Noise is obviously different but is the X-pipe less efficient because of the bends?
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Mike
2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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coullstar
Barcelona


Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 1307
Location: Aberdeen/Torphins


PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it just shifts the torque band slightly towards higher rpm.
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Martin996RSR
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 281



PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did a lot of research on it before buying the non-X-pipe cats. It was because there was slightly less power to be had from the X-pipe and for me, that performance mattered more than the more refined sound you get.
 
  
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Stotty
Silverstone


Joined: 17 Dec 2009
Posts: 141
Location: Surrey


PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not really bothered about a relatively small power increase (if there is a real one, rather than just a subjective improvement)... I'm more interested in the sound... and I don't want my car to sound refined Smile
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crash7
Montreal


Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 517



PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which of the two designs is the quietest? from a db level perspective?

Does anyone know the cell rating of the standard Cats?
 
  
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1909



PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martin996RSR wrote:
I did a lot of research on it before buying the non-X-pipe cats. It was because there was slightly less power to be had from the X-pipe and for me, that performance mattered more than the more refined sound you get.


I did a fair amount of "internet research", which of course should be taken with a pinch of salt. Opinions varied as to what was better, with some dyno's showing non-X, some showing-X. Do you have definitive data on this?

I was thinking this morning of dyno'ing my car as-is, really to provide a baseline against which to judge the new engine when it arrives next year.
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Thefinn
Österreich


Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 954
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taken from 9e's website regarding Kline system which answer a few questions in the thread

"The first point that stood out, was the catalyst design. 600 cell oem cats, and absolutely no balance present in the factory exhaust. replacing this unit for a 200 or 100 cell sports catalyst we were able to achieve some moderate power and torque gains. the second design alteration was to remodel the way in which the exhaust gases interact from opposing banks. Replacing the two piece design for a single piece with our trademark tight radius, laminar flow X pipe, we were able to alter the exhaust pitch, and smooth out the imbalance, this resulted in a far more high revving race car like sound. "
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Thefinn
Österreich


Joined: 11 Jun 2014
Posts: 954
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some interesting reading on these threads about dino readings after each of the different mods to this 997 including X pipe vs straight through all be it for de-cat x pipes. Unfortunately it looks as if time has removed the actual graphs from the thread.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/751040-got-an-x51-air-box-gt3-tb-and-plenum-before-and-after-dyno-s-3.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-forum/681272-dyno-comparison-catless-xpipe-vs-stock-pipe-cats.html
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Martin996RSR
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 08 Dec 2016
Posts: 281



PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dammit wrote:
Martin996RSR wrote:
I did a lot of research on it before buying the non-X-pipe cats. It was because there was slightly less power to be had from the X-pipe and for me, that performance mattered more than the more refined sound you get.


I did a fair amount of "internet research", which of course should be taken with a pinch of salt. Opinions varied as to what was better, with some dyno's showing non-X, some showing-X. Do you have definitive data on this?

I was thinking this morning of dyno'ing my car as-is, really to provide a baseline against which to judge the new engine when it arrives next year.


By all means do your own research. I did mine for the purposes of my own decision. My research was done over a year ago and I'm not going to track down my sources now to satisfy your chest prodding. Part of my research was probably the content linked to on the rennlist site, and another part was a paper on gas flow in tubes and the effect of bends of varying radius. There were probably other sources too. I studied aerospace engineering at uni and I'm used to thinking critically about engineering solutions and informing myself on the science behind the dyno charts. Given you're so critical of internet sources for information, perhaps you could tell me what non-internet sources you would use? I must admit to not having tried my local library for books on 996 empirical exhaust testing, maybe I should have done.
 
  
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