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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 13954
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:42 pm    Post subject: Hartech oversized engine testing with 911&Porsche World. Reply with quote

Baz Hart recently contacted me and asked if I'd like to come over to Hartech for a day of road testing & comparing their latest oversized engines vs. standard units. 911 & Porsche world would be there to do some testing, take a look at the figures, interview owners who'd been invited and also do a photo shoot. Well......how could I resist! Drive

The cars:

996 Carrera 2 coupe 3.4 with manual gearbox bored out to 3.7
996 Carrera 2 cab 3.6 with tiptronic box bored out to 3.9
987 Cayman S 3.4 with manual box bored out to 3.9

The comparisons:

My 996 Carrera 4 cab 3.4 with manual gearbox
996 C4S 3.6 with tiptronic box
987 Cayman S 3.4 with manual box

The plan was to let owners of standard cars and Steve Bennett from 911 & Porsche world test drive the standard and modded cars back to back, do a photo shoot, brief interview with each owner and then some motion snaps of the modified cars.


After a brief meet at Hartech Towers we set off out in the sticks to Delph sailing club who kindly allowed us to use their facilities to host the event with both Grant & Tobias on organisation duties. Once the photo shoot was done I quickly jumped into the driving seat of the 3.7 996. I'd been in one before but it hadn't been mapped to suit the increase in displacement, unlike this one.

Both Steve & I then went for a reasonable drive in each cars to feel the difference. I'm impressed!! Similar to what I reported last time - more torque! Felt like much more torque than the last one I went out in but that was still on the standard map. This felt more like the 3.9 Tobias took me out in last time. Imagine lowering what a 3.4 does above 4.5k rpm down to 3k rpm. I noticed the first time I progressed through 3rd gear after only a couple hundred yards. Then when we swapped motors and I drove my 3.4 the 4 miles back to sailing club, what a let down. Felt like i was trying to drive back with the handbrake half on.......flat.....just flat.

The other guys who attended then also went through the same process with Steve in one car and them in the other. Quick report back to Steve from all of us on what we thought and then a spot of lunch.

Once fine refreshments had been served and devoured I had to help out with the motion shots. Roof down on the car, our cameraman hanging out the back whilst Steve followed in each Hartech car......that was fun, good job nothing came the other way Surprised Grin

Before heading back to base I just had time for a blast in the star of the show - the 3.9 987 Cayman S

What a car!!!!

I soon realised why the other guys were grinning like Cheshire cats after their spin it. Talk about fun! and responsiveness! and Torque! and Power! and more Torque! Ignore everything I've said above, go out and buy yourself a Cayman S, then get these lads to work their magic on it......nothing else in life matters! Laughing

Within seconds I was addicted as my right foot instantly fell in love with that point and press accelerator pedal. I don't think I took it past 5k rpm, I didn't need to, all the fun I wanted was right there, between 2.5k & 5k. ......and I think Grant will confirm I wasn't at all taking it easy Smile

I think everyone else there will also tell you what's now top of their Christmas present list to Weihnachtsmann. Talk about fun!

I'll not waffle on anymore about what a great day today has been......and as usual what a fantastic operation and show Baz & the lads have put on. Grant & Tobias did a flawless job of looking after us all and showing us what a great time you can have if you bunk off work for the day and bob over to the best in the business Porsche specialists.

thumbsup

No doubt the multi-page spread in November's issue will cover a lot more detail than I have here and there should be plenty of wizzy photos too (if the motion shots are blurred - sorry Embarassed ) so don't forget to order yourself a copy.

Also great to meet everyone today - what a great set of guys!! Thumb

Just a few I managed to snap in between all the excitement:















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Daniel
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 11964
Location: Not where I want to be!

2000 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk1

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would love a 3.9 Cayman...

That good, yeah?

Any ideas on cost the rebuild a cayman to 3.9?

Thumb
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 13954
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never driven a Cayman before so can't comment on the handling, but the power delivery was just spot on. I reckon performance wise is probably somewhere between the GT4 & GTS.

I think Grant was telling me though it was more costly than the others as it has a larger crank. May be wrong though. Dont know
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ragpicker
Estoril


Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 3627
Location: North East England


PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Delph eh?

Its taken 22 years since I left for something decent to happen there...

Thumb
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FZP
Indianapolis


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 2470
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice write up Alex. Handling wise, a Cayman is superbalanced. Great fun to drive
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Gazc2
Albert Park


Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 1697
Location: Scotland


PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you get booked in for an upgrade then Alex Very Happy
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 13954
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My wallet said not yet Grin

Still buzzin about that Cayman. Shame Grant's nails are now imprinted in the dash.
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HSC911
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 5323
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You lucky bu66er! Grin

Envy
 
  
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14219
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great write up Alex, When I was talking to Baz about my poorly car thats sitting at Hartech towers he was telling me about this 3.9 cayman and what a beast it was , am I a bit envious that you got to drive it nooo well Grin Thumb Thumb Thumb
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bazhart
Approved Trader


Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 891
Location: Bolton Lancashire


PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad you enjoyed your day with us Alex and appreciate the write up - very well written - a hidden talent!


Just to point out though that in a way - allowing you all to drive the Cayman S - has taken a bit of the focus off the others - which is a bit if a shame because the 3.4 to 3.7 and 3.6 to 3.9 - both showed immediately noticeable improvements and much better performance over standard (something I hope will come out of the editorial). Perhaps we should have saved that for another day?


The Cayman S 3.9 being lighter than a 911 variant and with a capacity increase of 500cc compared to 300cc with the others (and with different gearing) is a very quick car but so are the others now.



You are right that the Cayman S requires a different crankshaft as well as pistons and cylinders - so will be more expensive than the others. However the 3.2 Boxster S to 3.7 (currently in build) retains the std crankshaft and is also a 500cc increase in a light car - so might be very quick as well (and they are less expensive to buy)


It has cost us a lot to develop these conversions especially involving so many cars - but we will try and retain ownership of them all and may be able to arrange that serious prospective customers already owning their own 3.4, 3.6, 3.8 or Cayman S can drive them at some future date - but I am hopeful that the editorial will do the job for most as we will not have time for all and sundry to go out in them.

It was really enjoyable to spend a day with you and our customers and the enthusiastic journalists and photographer from 911 and Porsche World - as well - a nice change from the daily grind churning out rebuilt engines.

p.s. Grant has had a change of underpants now!



Baz
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Last edited by bazhart on Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:29 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 13954
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Embarassed Grin apologies to Grant.

Sorry Baz, I didn't mean to dub down the excellence of the bored out 3.4 996 - it is a great improvement performance wise over the standard engine.

Just one other thing I failed to mention - the sound improvement! Suppose the best way to put it is they all sound like an M97 3.8 instead of the 3.6 engine. Very nice and deeper, thicker sound. Thumb
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bazhart
Approved Trader


Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 891
Location: Bolton Lancashire


PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No apology needed Alex and Phil, I think that if we do what we are considering to your 3.8 Gen 2 - you will not be envious anymore of the Cayman S and anyway you can have a drive in it when you visit!

Baz
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coullstar
Suzuka


Joined: 15 Sep 2015
Posts: 1198
Location: Aberdeen/Torphins


PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like the sound of a Boxster S with extra oomph. Always felt mine a little lacking.

Might be a silly question but do the cars sounds noticeably different? The noise is an important thing for me and just wondering if these capacity increases change the sound overall?
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 13954
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you hear the difference between a 2.7 and a 3.2? If so, apply that difference to a 3.7 vs. 3.2
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BHZ661
Suzuka


Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 1138
Location: Milton Keynes


PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantastic write up Alex, sounds as tho it was a great day , look forward to seeing the full article
 
  
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14219
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bazhart wrote:
No apology needed Alex and Phil, I think that if we do what we are considering to your 3.8 Gen 2 - you will not be envious anymore of the Cayman S and anyway you can have a drive in it when you visit!

Baz


Hi Baz, I always enjoy reading your posts, but that last post of yours had me
Dance Tap Yahoo Clap Dance
catch up soon ,and I get to have a go in the cayman worship worship
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spongebob squarepants
Estoril


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 3977
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baz,

Any ideas on pricing yet?
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bazhart
Approved Trader


Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 891
Location: Bolton Lancashire


PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We will be ready with pricing soon -sorry for the delay.

It will be different to a normal std rebuild because we tend to re-coat existing useable pistons (with new rings) wherever possible but they will have to be new for this conversion and have been especially manufactured for this application with volumes influencing prices - so anticipating public response and likely order quantities will influence the prices.

We are also reluctant to supply cases or engines initially preferring to build the whole car up to make sure our reputation is maintained. We may change that after successful rebuilds establish their reliability.

If you need a rebuild anyway it.will probably be between £1500and £2000 extra from a full rebuild for the additional performance and when you see the results I am sure you will agree that is a small price for such an all round increase in overall performance.

The Cayman 3.9 will also need a different crank but then there maybe some discount for a good old std unit (and for pistons).

All this makes fixed pricing difficult until we get further down the road.

Owners with undamaged cars will,be put on a list and cars will be rebuilt as batches (since they can still have use of them while they are waiting) but owners with failed engines that need fixing will,take priority over existing stock.

I will provide more information after the article is published (don’t want to steal their thunder after they have been taking such a lot of trouble to produce a comprehensive story over several pages) and anyway we are not ready for production just yet.

Once enough examples have expressed their satisfaction at the performance we may consider selling the test cars although we may also then start to add hotter inlet and exhaust systems and even cams etc although for normal road use the change in all round torque should satisfy most people.

I can tell you that Alex is right about the power though -somewhere between the GTS and a GT4.

Baz
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Hamster75
Trainee


Joined: 07 Sep 2017
Posts: 98
Location: Chester


PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice one Alex you lucky man, will read the write up when it comes out & like the idea of a Gen 2 upgrade when the day comes.
 
  
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kurlykris
Watkins Glen


Joined: 30 Jun 2014
Posts: 2163
Location: Warwickshire


PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice write up Alex, and what a lucky boy you are Grin

I can just imagine my 987 Boxster S with a 3.9 Cloud 9

I`ll be going the 996.1 3.4 to 3.7 conversion route next year Baz, my 3.4 is on 109K and I want to catch it before the mains give up, adding more to the costs. Would be good to have a drive of your "demo"..........things like that always seem to open my cheque book for some reason Very Happy

Some idea of timescales and availability would be most useful, along with ball park costs.

I must get up to one of your Northern Boys meets, maybe next month Thumb
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