Those aerokit cars are worthless unless they've had a Hartech rebuild. Avoid.
Fact.
I had one once and it went bad. Now I'm on a one man crusade to steer people away from them. Unless they've had a Hartech rebuild, like mine.
Think of me as the Michael Night of car forums. A shadowy flight into the dangerous world of a man who does not exist.
And actually while you're on, add a bit of Chuck Norris in there for good measure.
Remember punks, I'm always watching from the shadows. Ready to pounce on anyone even remotely thinking about buying a non-Hartech'd car.
Remember that and we'll all get along just fine. Fact.
Oh great just what we need, another harbinger of DOOM!
HSC911 Long Beach
Joined: 23 Jul 2014 Posts: 6351 Location: Bedford
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:05 am Post subject:
GMG mk2 wrote:
Think of me as the Michael Night of car forums. A shadowy flight into the dangerous world of a man who does not exist.
And actually while you're on, add a bit of Chuck Norris in there for good measure.
Remember punks, I'm always watching from the shadows. Ready to pounce on anyone even remotely thinking about buying a non-Hartech'd car.
Remember that and we'll all get along just fine. Fact.
You related to George Eaton
GMG Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 07 Jan 2018 Posts: 346 Location: Devon
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:43 am Post subject:
...imitation;the sincerest form of flattery
Kingb4 Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 20 Jan 2018 Posts: 342 Location: Beds/Bucks
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:02 am Post subject:
It did make me chuckle and go on a little nostalgia trip (loved Knight Rider)....
Back on topic: When I was looking, I wanted an Aero. Would be very tricky to determine the quantum for the Aero element. All the cars I looked at varied in terms of condition/mileage/optional extras etc. I ended up with a non-Aero car, as I chose condition over Aero kit....thinking I could add the Aero later
Now I have my non-Aero, I cant see myself adding the kit, I like mine as it is..... _________________ 2002 996.2 C2 Cabriolet
g911omr Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 29 Sep 2009 Posts: 270
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:15 am Post subject:
Kingb4 wrote:
It did make me chuckle and go on a little nostalgia trip (loved Knight Rider)....
Back on topic: When I was looking, I wanted an Aero. Would be very tricky to determine the quantum for the Aero element. All the cars I looked at varied in terms of condition/mileage/optional extras etc. I ended up with a non-Aero car, as I chose condition over Aero kit....thinking I could add the Aero later
Now I have my non-Aero, I cant see myself adding the kit, I like mine as it is.....
Same here really.
I think the aero cars look nice. The rear spoiler is possibly a little OTT bearing in mind the relatively modest performance.
Sadly the reality is that aero or non aero, the engine will certainly go go bang pretty quickly and then you will be in a real mess.
Jobbo Newbie
Joined: 18 Aug 2018 Posts: 9
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:53 pm Post subject:
So the jist of what folks are saying (on and off various forums) is unless you have a spare £10-£15k to spend on the almost inevitable engine letting go issue, don’t buy a Porsche, stick to your Ford and keep enjoying them from a far.
I was going to ask about LSD/Traction control or lack of in certain cars but I have to be honest I am going off the idea of purchasing a 996 (Aero or non Aero and broadened my search to 997, which I have to say seems potentially even worse unless I look at a Gen2 car) as I really would like a car I can take out enjoy, do some shows and generally keep tidy and fettle with in the garage to keep me sane.
GMG Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 07 Jan 2018 Posts: 346 Location: Devon
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:12 pm Post subject:
...you could buy one and it be fine? However, there is very little way of knowing and I think this is the problem...if you have sufficient spare cash then you can buy one that you like the look of and if it fails then you can fix it and if it doesn't then you win...or why not buy a rebuilt one and remove the risk?
My view is that to buy without the resources to rectify a big problem (if one should occur ?) thinking that everything will be just fine is plain stupid!
But each to their own...
GMG Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 07 Jan 2018 Posts: 346 Location: Devon
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:12 pm Post subject:
...you could buy one and it be fine? However, there is very little way of knowing and I think this is the problem...if you have sufficient spare cash then you can buy one that you like the look of and if it fails then you can fix it and if it doesn't then you win...or why not buy a rebuilt one and remove the risk?
My view is that to buy without the resources to rectify a big problem (if one should occur ?) thinking that everything will be just fine is plain stupid!
But each to their own...
Marky911 Indianapolis
Joined: 04 Jun 2009 Posts: 2262
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:26 pm Post subject:
Jobbo, don't let our resident nay-sayer put you off.
Look at it realistically. If you buy a good 3.4 Carrera and have it inspected, then yes you could be unlucky, but if you are doing relatively low miles during summer for road trips and shows, like myself, you'd have to be very unlucky to experience total catastrophic failure.
It could happen but then just leave it in the garage until you save up for a repair.
You also don't have to go for a £10k Hartech rebuild. You can be back on the road for a third of that, if all you want is a working car, which at the end of the day is what you had before the breakdown.
People on here love spending other peoples money and GMG above has a real axe to grind because he's been on the receiving end.
As I've said to him he needs to sell it and move on. I've a feeling he won't stop there though and he's a mission to put everyone off these brilliant cars.
Anyone buying a 20 year old 911, who doesn't expect a bill or two is in for a shock. I paid £13k for mine almost 3 years ago and have spent that again I reckon. I could have spent about £1k if I'd wanted though, just for routine servicing.
You can go as intense or a light as you want regarding ownership, to a certain extent.
Don't listen to the broken record that is GMG. He's been stung and it sucks but some people just can't get over things. I wish I had his problems.
Oh, and I don't have £10k in an engine repair fund. I'm stupid according to GMG there, but I'm stupid and happy, as I'm flying about in an absolutely sublime handling, awesome sounding, great looking 911.
I'll deal with any breakages as they occur. If we all thought like GMG we'd never do anything in life.
Jobbo Newbie
Joined: 18 Aug 2018 Posts: 9
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:29 pm Post subject:
GMG wrote:
...you could buy one and it be fine? However, there is very little way of knowing and I think this is the problem...if you have sufficient spare cash then you can buy one that you like the look of and if it fails then you can fix it and if it doesn't then you win...or why not buy a rebuilt one and remove the risk?
My view is that to buy without the resources to rectify a big problem (if one should occur ?) thinking that everything will be just fine is plain stupid!
But each to their own...
Never one to go for the Stupid option, more of a play it as safe as I can kinda guy I won’t be looking any further unfortunately.
Thanks to all for their input though
crash7 Montreal
Joined: 28 May 2011 Posts: 584
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:23 pm Post subject:
GMG wrote:
...you could buy one and it be fine? However, there is very little way of knowing and I think this is the problem...if you have sufficient spare cash then you can buy one that you like the look of and if it fails then you can fix it and if it doesn't then you win...or why not buy a rebuilt one and remove the risk?
My view is that to buy without the resources to rectify a big problem (if one should occur ?) thinking that everything will be just fine is plain stupid!
But each to their own...
If I were the cynical type I would say that your talking up the failures and scare mongering to make your very expensive and recently rebuilt 996 seem like a good buy!
Jobbo, I drive mine hard, it did many trackdays this year, all with zero issues. - Yes you could get a failure, but you could get a failure on anything you buy, particularly if your buying a circa 20 year old car.
The failures are well documented, genrally by those whom have an axe to grind, however you rarely hear the praise, not because there isn't any but because people in general like to moan and complain.
As Marky said, don't be put off! The 996 is a great package!
HSC911 Long Beach
Joined: 23 Jul 2014 Posts: 6351 Location: Bedford
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:35 pm Post subject:
Jobbo wrote:
I won’t be looking any further unfortunately.
Life's too short to play it safe all the time...buy one, rag the pants off of it and sell it on before it melts at least
Don't let internet scaremongery put you off
GMG Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 07 Jan 2018 Posts: 346 Location: Devon
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:54 pm Post subject:
...just to be clear; I genuinely don't give a toss about how I am perceived on this forum; I won't be another keyboard sycophant...my experience reveals the potential risks of buying these cars, one that whilst a significant inconvenience for me isn't going to break my bank...I genuinely don't care if anyone from this forum buys my car or not as someone will and quite how anyone,other than those with their noses or sensibilities impacted by my comments and observations, can objectively state that a 70k miles 996 with FPSH and a complete engine rebuild is over priced at £23.5 k is beyond me but you pays your money ....other people's decisions don't affect me !
HSC911 Long Beach
Joined: 23 Jul 2014 Posts: 6351 Location: Bedford
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:55 pm Post subject:
a person who acts obsequiously towards someone important in order to gain advantage
Totally agree, go in with eyes open but don't let that distract from what is a fantastic car. You always hear about the issues as people like to complain more than they love to say things are all okay.
Saying that if your one that doesn't take risks then get down your nearest new car dealer and get in a new car as it's the only way your going to have piece of mind over an older sports car. _________________ 1999 C2 Coupe - http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=124107
Marky911 Indianapolis
Joined: 04 Jun 2009 Posts: 2262
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:17 pm Post subject:
GMG wrote:
...just to be clear; I genuinely don't give a toss about how I am perceived on this forum
That's the spirit...
Good job really as you don't come across too well. Every post is a whinge.
GMG wrote:
....other people's decisions don't affect me !
They do if it means you don't sell your car.
GMG Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 07 Jan 2018 Posts: 346 Location: Devon
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:38 am Post subject:
...you are right Mary911; Porsche 996s are the most reliable cars you can buy,they never break down or suffer catastrophic engine failure...ever.
If you buy one and it ,by some miracle,should explode without warning then worry not as the fixing fairies will appear and mend it for nothing.
If the fixing fairies don't appear then altruistic fixing companies like,for example, hartech will offer to mend it for nothing more than a few sycophantic thread lines as all they do every day of the week is generously repair engines that ,for no reason that anyone can fathom, have broken...
So the moral of Mary911s story is just buy one because they never,ever break,and if they do it's because they are old so what did you expect;and please don't try to offer any advice because this will be gratuitously perceived as whinging by someone whom despite having shelled out many thousands of pounds isn't a true enthusiastic because this person lacks the capacity to ignore or rose tint any of these cars failings...
Better?
jimC2 Newbie
Joined: 25 Jan 2009 Posts: 32 Location: Central Scotland
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 7:56 am Post subject:
Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit and doesn't add much credibility to your response. I've owned eight 911's over last 15 years. Three 997 and five 996. Never had a PPI and on average bought them about £1500-£2000 below asking price which I've then spent on them to get things sorted. Overall probably broken even on purchase/sales prices over the years. Never had any major problems although have obviously spent on maintenance and other improvements etc and maybe I've been lucky. However, if you want to mitigate the main IMS issue then get it upgraded for peace of mind. My current car has had this done by the previous owner, and I have had it done to two of my previous 996. On both occasions the old bearing was in fine condition but it gave me the peace of mind to drive them without too much worry. Some people just shouldn't go near old cars and I sometimes try to convince myself that I should avoid them but always come back to the fold. As said before if you want trouble free motoring buy a new car but its going to cost as much in the long term. I buy a new daily driver every 3 years and know that its not cost effective but I like to have a new car as well. However, my last A class was £31k and sold for £16k when 3 years old so go figure!!
Marky911 Indianapolis
Joined: 04 Jun 2009 Posts: 2262
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:48 am Post subject:
GMG wrote:
...you are right Mary911; Porsche 996s are the most reliable cars you can buy,they never break down or suffer catastrophic engine failure...ever.
If you buy one and it ,by some miracle,should explode without warning then worry not as the fixing fairies will appear and mend it for nothing.
If the fixing fairies don't appear then altruistic fixing companies like,for example, hartech will offer to mend it for nothing more than a few sycophantic thread lines as all they do every day of the week is generously repair engines that ,for no reason that anyone can fathom, have broken...
So the moral of Mary911s story is just buy one because they never,ever break,and if they do it's because they are old so what did you expect;and please don't try to offer any advice because this will be gratuitously perceived as whinging by someone whom despite having shelled out many thousands of pounds isn't a true enthusiastic because this person lacks the capacity to ignore or rose tint any of these cars failings...
Better?
Except I've never said anything of the sort. I've said get one inspected, maintain it well, and enjoy it. If the worst happens garage it while saving for a repair. A repair that doesn't have to cost £10k.
You're never going to convince me and I'm never going to convince you. I've had 911s since I was 25 and I'm 41 now. 2 out of 5 have needed engine rebuilds. It's par for the course when you're playing with 20 year old performance cars. If this one becomes rebuild number 3, yes I'll be mighty pee'd off but I'll get over it. I won't spend the rest of my days crying over it.
You obviously thought or hoped you could run a one on a shoestring and you've realised you can't. You've then got your knickers in a twist and feel the need to hang around on a forum spreading the word that they're sh*t.
We all know the cars and know what we are dealing with. Yes they can develop faults that they really shouldn't, but like I always say and someone has said above, if you're not comfortable with the risks, buy a brand new Golf.
You can't have your cake and eat it. If you want a 300bhp+ sports car in a pretty unique format, you have to pay or at least be aware you "may" have to pay.
There's offering advice and then there's bleating on like an old woman.
Just sell your car and move on. Honestly...
GMG Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 07 Jan 2018 Posts: 346 Location: Devon
Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:34 pm Post subject:
Ok...so your advice is to cross your fingers and hope that your car doesn't break? That,in your case for example, only 40% need a rebuild and apparently you can get a Porsche 996 engine rebuild for about£3k...
And I am the one who is talking nonsense? Really...
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