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peterzoom
Monza


Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Posts: 180


2001 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:49 pm    Post subject: M96 Porsche factory short engines, price reduction Reply with quote

I spotted a tiny little article in this months Total 911 magazine that might be of interest to anyone considering an engine build on their 996.
The article at the foot of page 10 suggests that Porsche have reduced the price of short motors by almost 50% Thumb Thumb Thumb

They are now available, according to the article, for £3,500 direct from Porsche.
At first glance this looks like a sea change in not only the cost of a rebuild but also a welcome boost for the future values of 996 cars as the spectre of failed engines making the car itself valueless is significantly lessened.

Thought it was a nice bit of news for 996 owners.
 
  
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maldren
Österreich


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 923



PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does this cover 3.4 and 3.6?

At that price, it's almost worth buying one as a spare! Certainly gives a cost effective option to the Hartech solution if you need a rebuild.

Apparently the short motors have revised water pumps and therefore, probably, revised cooling too.
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2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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peterzoom
Monza


Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Posts: 180


2001 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The article is a little light on specifics. Referring to "M96 generation flat sixes" rather than any particular capacity Dont know
 
  
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Marky911
Kyalami


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 1856



PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget that's exchange though, so it's not that easy to just get one and stick it on a shelf. Otherwise loads of us would be snapping them up.
 
  
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Rossi911
Suzuka


Joined: 06 Apr 2008
Posts: 1218
Location: England

2011 Porsche 991 Carrera

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plus VAT
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kas750
Reims


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 4061
Location: Chorley lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marky911 wrote:
Don't forget that's exchange though, so it's not that easy to just get one and stick it on a shelf. Otherwise loads of us would be snapping them up.


I bet you could buy a scrap unit from somewhere like Douglas valley for reasonable money depending on the surcharge for no exchange unit?
 
  
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911UK
Porsche Community
Porsche Community


Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9796
Location: 911UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there are always some condition requirements in the exchange
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kas750
Reims


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 4061
Location: Chorley lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

911UK wrote:
there are always some condition requirements in the exchange


I would think that as long as the engine was complete and there were no holes in the crankcases then you should be good to go
 
  
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6260
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a good reason to put my duff bottom end back together.

MC
 
  
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colt
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 272
Location: wiltshire


PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:50 pm    Post subject: short engine cost Reply with quote

I had one from Porsche at the start of the year and that was £5788 plus vat(retail) exchange for a m96/03 (3.6 variocam F1) the old core surcharge was £4300 plus vat if you didn't have an identical engine to give back in exchange. This is about half of a 3.4 cayman short exchange motor when I enquired in Feb. which if I recall was £10193 plus vat. clearly in Porsche mind the 987/997 owner has more money to spend! as the cost to produce what are essentially similar short engines must be equal.NB at the time feb 2018 a bare 3.4 cayman crankcase set was 5k plus vat(no pistons!)
Christian..............
 
  
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GMG
Silverstone


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 144
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...what parts do you get with a short block, exactly?

I phoned Porsche last week and was quoted £4700 plus vat for a 3.6.

My engine is being rebuilt and I was wondering if this would have been cheaper than having my bottom end rebuilt? The specialist doing the rebuild wasn't keen on buying a short block from Porsche?

Thanks
 
  
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bazhart
Approved Trader


Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 893
Location: Bolton Lancashire


PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is always welcome when Porsche reduce parts prices and this is no exception, but you must remember that you still have to remove and reinstate the engine and transmission, strip of all the auxiliaries and heads and probably recondition them, supply and fit all the new gaskets and seals, oils coolant etc, probably repair rusty or broken exhaust parts etc and at the end you have the same piston coating and bore finish that required a rebuild anyway.

So while this may very well help out those that can do work themselves it may be no less expensive if you have to rely on a specialist to rebuild it all and do not end up with a superior specification.


Furthermore although we have previously rebuilt engines using the Porsche bottom end - we have had a few problems with them (yes really - honestly - just don't want to go into details here). On those occasions it was difficult to deal with since we didn't build the bottom end and we realised that if there is a subsequent problem with the engine - it is very difficult to deal with who is responsible to strip it, find out what the fault is and agree who pay for everything and to to rebuild it afterwards.

If it did turn out to be the new bottom end had a fault Porsche would be unlikely to pay for the specialist to do all that work (if you could ever get them to agree responsibility) whereas with a Hartech full rebuild there would be no problem as the whole process is subject to our guarantee (not that we ever need to invoke it).

Where it could be worth considering is particularly where your own bottom end has crankshaft damage since the cost of a new crankshaft etc would probably make a Porsche bottom end a cheaper alternative.

By all means we support anyone finding a better way to repair their engines (they should never have had all these problems in the first place), but although I anticipate that this post will receive critical responses - I cannot shy away from making sure owners do not get swept up in a euphoria that prevents them from looking critically at all the issues and alternatives and costing them out thoroughly while also considering the warranty issues.

Baz
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GMG
Silverstone


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 144
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...helpful advice Baz, the specialist doing my rebuild (ex Porsche Foreman) was not keen to use a Porsche block; however he was very comfortable offering a 2 year, 20k mile transferable warranty (like you offer Barry) on the block being re- engineered with Westwood liners installed by Thurston Engineering because having used them and this solution on dozens of rebuilds he has never had any issues...

As always you pays your money...
 
  
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6260
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spoke with OPC Nottingham today and was quoted about £5.2k +vat for a 3.4l

MC
 
  
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colt
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 272
Location: wiltshire


PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject: ...what parts do you get with a short block, exactly? Reply with quote

You get , a complete bottom end , crankcases pistons, rods , crank. oil pump ,water pump , timing chains ,revised intermediate shaft with the big bearing and revised chain drive, oil level sensor,all the cylinder head timing chains and the guides, sump pan.knock sensors. just put your heads on and the major ancillaries and your on your way.
 
  
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bazhart
Approved Trader


Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 893
Location: Bolton Lancashire


PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK if you can manage that Colt - but you still probably will have snapped manifold bolts, head gaskets, some seals, and the engine has to go in and out and all be connected and working with fluids etc and if you do it yourself - no guarantee to fall back on.

You also will have Lokasil bores and plastic coated pistons some of which we have had in as failures under 20K (not many admittedly but what would you do if yours did fail?).

I do urge people to check the equivalent with other proces that fix the bore problem permanently (like us) into the bargain and compare equivalent build prices.


Baz
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6260
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would definately consider sending a new short block straight to Baz to be sorted.

MC
 
  
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Ghianightmare
Monza


Joined: 25 Apr 2017
Posts: 162
Location: Dublin


PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plenty of food for thought here. Good to have a perspective from Hartech.

The situation is similar to my experience in the commercial aircraft industry. Porsche isn't alone here.

Billions spent on jet engine development and problems straight out of the factory. A replacement new engine isn't always the solution as it will have the same issues.

If my engine blows and has a good core, I think I would opt to have it rebuilt and refitted etc by someone who has a lot of experience doing it and get a warranty. I like to have a warranty safety net in such circumstances...
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peterzoom
Monza


Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Posts: 180


2001 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

these guys make a rebuild look like a walk in the park Surprised Surprised Surprised

https://www.motor1.com/news/265961/watch-dragster-engine-get-rebuilt/
 
  
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mark pearce
Approved Trader


Joined: 06 May 2004
Posts: 2725
Location: Nationwide


PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought Porsche reduced the price of short 3.4 engines about 18 months ago?
I'm sure there was talk about it here then?
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