Ow this has thread has turned into a bit of a debate over the past few days. I am in the camp that understands and accepts things can go wrong with cars and clearly as I am ancient I won't start with my first car as we all know the Ford model B wasn't great new but here are a few
Rover SDI useless piece of crap forever breaking down
1977 Pontiac Transam (smokey and the bandit shape) constant oil leaks and tappet issues
Mitsubishi Starion turbo wide body very quick, no issues great little car.
1984 Pontiac Transam (night rider shape) T roof leaked constantly and lots od piggy electrical issues. other than that a nice car.
Nissan 300zx turbo great car no issues purple velour interior was a bit much lol.
2003 Merc CLK cab nothing special lost 20k owning it from new in 1 year
2004 Merc SL500 only 2 issues I has with it was the pano roof kept leaking and putting supermarket fuel in it caused a misfire that melted both the cats (done under warranty) and was the last time I ever put supermarket fuel in a car.
BMW 6 series cab no issues other than the sat nav needed to be sent away and repaired
2006 Aston Martin DB9 many electrical gremlins with the early DB9s kept the car 3.5 years and in that time it cost me 50k
BMW 6 series cab just a stop gap while I decided what I wanted no problems with this car.
2006 997.1 kept this car 4.5 years ,other than mods only money spent was a tandem pump and the ac lines replaced did 50k miles sold on 89k miles lovely car borescoped at sale clean as a whistle .
2009 997.2 4S had this car 18 months needed new coolant lines, new clutch , new flywheel, new disks and pads, gearbox rebuild , engine rebuild (although the engine was not a Porsche weakness and was due to a cheap Chinese aftermarket cats breaking up in getting ingested by the engine on overrun) total repair bills todate inc engine £25,000.
has it pi55ed me off. Yes a bit (thats a lot of bacon butties) do I accept it as what might happen if I drive this these types of cars, Yes 100%
but my point is I have driven these cars over the last 30 odd years and may have spent a bit over 100k in maintenance of them , but what a lot of fun they have been for an ave of just over 3k pa in maintenance . I honestly think we need to look at the ave cost of our driving over the years and not what one particular car or one particular year has cost us . and certainly not even ever consider that we could have paid for a house with what we have spent over the years and if we do accidentally consider this ,we should never ever repeat it within earshot of our wives or girlfriends _________________ 911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
Last edited by Phil 997 on Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
segart Nürburgring
Joined: 28 Jan 2015 Posts: 379 Location: Jersey - Britains South Sea Isle
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:45 pm Post subject:
Crikey Phil that 997.2 4s sounds disastrous. Just out of interest what sort of mileage did those problems occur at. And is that a manual or PDK?
Rick _________________ 997.2 Carrera 2S pdk
Ex 996 C4S Manual
Phil 997 Brands Hatch
Joined: 05 Dec 2015 Posts: 14949 Location: Bournemouth,Dorset
Crikey Phil that 997.2 4s sounds disastrous. Just out of interest what sort of mileage did those problems occur at. And is that a manual or PDK?
Rick
Hi Rick, It was a pain but in all honesty the coolant pipes also went on my gen1 at around the same miles circa 60k corrosion on the joints , the clutch and flywheel again may have been original so 60k isn't bad and if they weren't original I would have expected to have to do them at least twice over 60k miles. the gearbox went at 63k which is something you wouldn't expect as the Porsche manual gearbox is pretty solid but these things can happen at any time to any car. the engine well as I have said thats down to the previous owner using cheap nasty Chinese exhaust parts and TBH if I had known the cats were not cartographic like the rest of the exhaust I would have changed them when I brought the car ,as I avoid Chinese goods as much as I can due to many experiences of most Chinese goods used in all walks of life being substandard I have even changed toilets that were made in China for German or similar as even a toilet made in china won't flush very well . thats how they sell them so much cheaper .
So in summery Rick as much as its expensive and a pain, very little was down to premature failure from a Porsche component . _________________ 911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
maldren Österreich
Joined: 07 Oct 2016 Posts: 973
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:53 pm Post subject:
GMG wrote:
So just to be clear because I don't want the haters to worry unduly about my emotional state...I love Porsches , especially mine, Hartech are ace and I am over my engine failure...
It certainly doesn't seem like it from your numerous posts..... _________________ Mike
2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
You know, I have always wondered what a can of worms was _________________ Porsche Carrera 2S 2005 black fully Hartech'd!, BMW Z4 coupé 2007 blue, Mazda Eunos 1996 yellow, VW Passat 2014 black.
segart Nürburgring
Joined: 28 Jan 2015 Posts: 379 Location: Jersey - Britains South Sea Isle
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:29 pm Post subject:
Phil 997 wrote:
segart wrote:
Crikey Phil that 997.2 4s sounds disastrous. Just out of interest what sort of mileage did those problems occur at. And is that a manual or PDK?
Rick
Hi Rick, It was a pain but in all honesty the coolant pipes also went on my gen1 at around the same miles circa 60k corrosion on the joints , the clutch and flywheel again may have been original so 60k isn't bad and if they weren't original I would have expected to have to do them at least twice over 60k miles. the gearbox went at 63k which is something you wouldn't expect as the Porsche manual gearbox is pretty solid but these things can happen at any time to any car. the engine well as I have said thats down to the previous owner using cheap nasty Chinese exhaust parts and TBH if I had known the cats were not cartographic like the rest of the exhaust I would have changed them when I brought the car ,as I avoid Chinese goods as much as I can due to many experiences of most Chinese goods used in all walks of life being substandard I have even changed toilets that were made in China for German or similar as even a toilet made in china won't flush very well . thats how they sell them so much cheaper .
So in summery Rick as much as its expensive and a pain, very little was down to premature failure from a Porsche component .
A fair resume and yes 60k is something of a benchmark in terms of some of the more serious maintenance. Chinese product warning noted!
It reminds me of one or two failures i have exoerienced on Ducatis and TVRs where the failure was the after market component.
Atb
Rick _________________ 997.2 Carrera 2S pdk
Ex 996 C4S Manual
It reminds me of one or two failures i have experienced on Ducatis and TVRs where the failure was the after market component.
Reminds me..must sort out the cam followers and timing belts on my Ducati more £££s _________________ Present
Carrera C2S Manual-Full Hartech Rebuild
Mercedes CLK DD
Ducati 996
HSC911 Long Beach
Joined: 23 Jul 2014 Posts: 6110 Location: Bedford
Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:33 pm Post subject:
Counter Of Beans Monza
Joined: 10 May 2018 Posts: 201 Location: Hampshire
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:11 pm Post subject:
Well, quite a range of views expressed over the last three pages which makes for interesting reading. For me, the key comment was from Baz at Hartech saying that at 90k "most" crank bearings are nearing the end of their life; I'm inclined to accept his expert opinion.
If a friend said to me "thinking of buying a 996 / 997.1 with 90k miles on it, what do you think?", I'd respond "fine, great cars, but you need £10k to £15k in the bank as a contingency fund." Or maybe "find one that's had a full Hartech rebuild."
No wonder high mileage M96 / M97 cars are hard to sell.
Robert SausageTrousers Silverstone
Joined: 02 Apr 2018 Posts: 149
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:25 pm Post subject:
I drive mine with peace of mind, it's on 56k having been rebuilt at JAZ Porsche at 48k due to bore scoring. I know according to most on here the fact that the rebuild wasn't done at Hartech renders it meaningless but I'm quite happy that the rebuild was done to a high standard at a quality and reputable specialist.
GMG Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 07 Jan 2018 Posts: 276 Location: Devon
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:27 pm Post subject:
...precisely the point that I have attempted to make numerous times and one that is apparently rather challenging to reconcile
Phil 997 Brands Hatch
Joined: 05 Dec 2015 Posts: 14949 Location: Bournemouth,Dorset
I drive mine with peace of mind, it's on 56k having been rebuilt at JAZ Porsche at 48k due to bore scoring. I know according to most on here the fact that the rebuild wasn't done at Hartech renders it meaningless but I'm quite happy that the rebuild was done to a high standard at a quality and reputable specialist.
Robert, I think there are plenty of decent rebuilders around Yes Hartech have the rep of being the best, but as long as its been rebuilt by a known Porsche specialist and not a back street under the railway arches grease monkey shop I wouldn't be worried either. _________________ 911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
Counter Of Beans Monza
Joined: 10 May 2018 Posts: 201 Location: Hampshire
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:25 pm Post subject:
GMG wrote:
...precisely the point that I have attempted to make numerous times and one that is apparently rather challenging to reconcile
If it's any consolation GMG, I think some of the responses directed at you are a little unfair. There was one accusing you of a Porsche hate campaign or something which clearly isn't the case. Then again, internet "conversations" are a bit strange, they don't always come across quite how people intend.
Glad you're enjoying your car's new lease of life.
GMG Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 07 Jan 2018 Posts: 276 Location: Devon
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:32 pm Post subject:
...Thanks buddy and yes back in love with the car again...tbh just one drive in it is restorative...
Removed the original exhaust at the weekend in preparation for buying a Topgear one from another member on this forum...what a complete areshole of a job! Thank god for an angle grinder and reciprocating saw...ended up just cutting everything off...who's bright idea was it to install the two bolts on the mounting bracket so that you have to cut them off ffs!
Wheels being refurbished this week and just had front and rear pu s painted so car is being well treated despite it doing it's best to warrant an acrimonious divorce
Phil 997 Brands Hatch
Joined: 05 Dec 2015 Posts: 14949 Location: Bournemouth,Dorset
...Thanks buddy and yes back in love with the car again...tbh just one drive in it is restorative...
Removed the original exhaust at the weekend in preparation for buying a Topgear one from another member on this forum...what a complete areshole of a job! Thank god for an angle grinder and reciprocating saw...ended up just cutting everything off...who's bright idea was it to install the two bolts on the mounting bracket so that you have to cut them off ffs!
Wheels being refurbished this week and just had front and rear pu s painted so car is being well treated despite it doing it's best to warrant an acrimonious divorce
they do that mate , I have spent 25k this year on it and I still brought a set of RSS semi solids for it for when I get it back _________________ 911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
mikeluke Albert Park
Joined: 03 Jun 2014 Posts: 1584 Location: Hampshire
Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:15 pm Post subject:
Phil
Did you conveniently 'forget' the Bentley off that list?
I thought that had cost you a few £££ this year too.... _________________ Current:
981 Boxster S PDK
BMW X5 4.0d M Sport
BMW M140i (Mrs L's)
VW Polo Match 1.2 (the lad's)
Former:
996 Turbo S Cabrio Manual
996 Turbo Coupe Tip
968 Cabrio Manual
Phil 997 Brands Hatch
Joined: 05 Dec 2015 Posts: 14949 Location: Bournemouth,Dorset
Did you conveniently 'forget' the Bentley off that list?
I thought that had cost you a few £££ this year too....
No Mike it was only a couple of small things and all sorted by the dealer I got it from, with the exception of a couple of hundred quid spent at Bentley on bits that were not really down to the dealer oh and the huge amount of super unleaded the thing drinks think I need a tanker following me for on road mobile refuelling _________________ 911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
medmick Monza
Joined: 11 Jun 2016 Posts: 167 Location: Winchester-ish
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:14 pm Post subject:
Phil, were those Chinese parts put in by the Porsche indie that you bought the car from? _________________ My world is totally flat
Phil 997 Brands Hatch
Joined: 05 Dec 2015 Posts: 14949 Location: Bournemouth,Dorset
Phil, were those Chinese parts put in by the Porsche indie that you bought the car from?
It would seem so Mick , but at who's request I dont know, and I am sure they would never have anticipated what would happen mate . So I can't really blame anyone for being tight with the exhaust budget _________________ 911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
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do I accept it as what might happen if I drive this these types of cars, Yes 100%
