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911DG
Monza


Joined: 23 Nov 2008
Posts: 242



PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:27 am    Post subject: She’s in at Hartech getting the full £10k rebuild... Reply with quote

Hi guys

Borescoping - killed my 997s car at 40,00 miles. Total ***** and poor design fault but it is what it is (I bought a A4 run about for £1.9k and seems more reliable). Seriously how the Fkkk can that happen - joke!?! The fabled 911 is really not that rock solid is it. Thing is I love em so it’s gone from a 15 year love/love relationship to a love/hate.

Anyway - moan over, £10k bill coming - hey Ho. MY Question is, is there anything I should also get done while she’s there and the engine is taken apart ??? Don’t get this opportunity very often so I thought I’d ask you lot.

As usual I bow to your advise and it’s always appreciated.

Cheers

Dan
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Then:
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DrJimBone
Monza


Joined: 12 Oct 2017
Posts: 221
Location: Bournemouth


PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are getting all six cylinders lined, I take it? You could ask about going up a bit in cc Razz See if they have the 4.0 conversion ready yet... Very Happy
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Norfolk & Idea
Barcelona


Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 1368
Location: South Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hard lines mate, that's 5h1tty luck Evil or Very Mad

Whilst tucked away last night in my offshore bunk, I read an interesting article in 911 and Porsche World on this very subject with the 997. They were saying it's possibly the injector seals blowing by mixed with high ethanol content fuel... It was quite deep and not entirely conclusive.

I know it's of little consolation to you but such failures are quite rare. But if I were you I'd be wanting to know what happened and some reassurance it wont happen again after dropping 10 large.

Which model is it? Good luck with the rebuild and I'd be interested to know Hartech's root cause diagnosis.

Cheers, Paul.
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2012 997.2 Turbo Basalt Black. Bit of a 9E ing.
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DrJimBone
Monza


Joined: 12 Oct 2017
Posts: 221
Location: Bournemouth


PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norfolk & Idea wrote:
Whilst tucked away last night in my offshore bunk, I read an interesting article in 911 and Porsche World


Which Rig? I'm on Ensco 100 off Abz at the mo...

Thread Hijack
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6357
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hard lines is a good call. If the 997 is like the 996 then one of the brake lines runs over the engine, easy to change with the engine out, a pig otherwise. I am sure Baz will be able to advise very well on the engine side. More capacity if possible
Laughing

MC
 
  
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Norfolk & Idea
Barcelona


Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 1368
Location: South Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrJimBone wrote:
Norfolk & Idea wrote:
Whilst tucked away last night in my offshore bunk, I read an interesting article in 911 and Porsche World


Which Rig? I'm on Ensco 100 off Abz at the mo...

Thread Hijack


Oooh, bit further south by about 4,500 miles. On an FPSO off Nigeria. Lucky me... Home Tuesday night though.... Dance Tap
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2012 997.2 Turbo Basalt Black. Bit of a 9E ing.
2008 Ducati 1098R (Track)
2016 Macan GTS
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2018 Ducati Panigale V4S (Track)
 
  
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GMG
Monza


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 192
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...Crap design simple as that;shame Porsche didn't get Honda to do the engine and I am not joking!

I too am in the same boat but ims killed mine with a final bill that will be close to £18k so your bill is tiny!!

I had all six liners changed,pistons,rings,aos,low temperature thermostat,all oil pumps,all variocams,guides, New ims shaft and bearing with new housing,I had my heads completely stripped and rebuilt with new guides,refaced valves,stem seals etc.

My hard lines are in good condition; a corollary of a low mileage car that lived in a garage I presume?

Plugs and coils if they are tired ? Also get the exhaust fastenings changed , New engine mounts if yours are tired? Mine were changed...

My love for these cars has totally gone now I am afraid thus despite the huge cost and loss I am selling mine (it's on this forum) as can't forgive it sadly...stupid I know but there you are.

I wish you luck with yours...
 
  
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Robert SausageTrousers
Silverstone


Joined: 02 Apr 2018
Posts: 122



PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just bought a 997 that had a full engine build 1500 miles ago (bore scoring in 2016, 50k miles), in the pre purchase inspection Porsche noticed that one of the coolant pipes that runs from the engine to the front of the car had corroded on the bulkhead between the engine bay and cabin, to replace is an engine out job - not cheap!

So, I'd say if the engines out then it might well be worth replacing both of these pipes.
 
  
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GMG
Monza


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 192
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...these examples and the many others simply reinforces my view that I have expressed recently on the forum is that you are either rich,ignorant or brave to buy a 996/7 without it having had an engine rebuild...furthermore that the cars that have not been rebuilt will suffer disproportionately over coming years value wise...
 
  
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spongebob squarepants
Reims


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 4322
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GMG wrote:
...these examples and the many others simply reinforces my view that I have expressed recently on the forum is that you are either rich,ignorant or brave to buy a 996/7 without it having had an engine rebuild...furthermore that the cars that have not been rebuilt will suffer disproportionately over coming years value wise...


Do you own a tin hat! Grin Angry 996/7.1 owners coming soon... On the other side of the coin the large majority of owners have had no such issues, however no consolation to owners such as yourself :-(
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GMG
Monza


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 192
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...no tin hat required...I don't care what others think of my views...the fact is that they do fail frequently and that by by 70-100 miles they are worn out in most cases...so why on earth would one spend a chunk on one that hadn't been rebuilt? Makes no sense at all even if considering buying a cheap one....like I said they are gambling man's dream if unfettered!
 
  
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Albionmuz
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 28 Oct 2016
Posts: 364
Location: West Sussex


PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GMG wrote:
...no tin hat required...I don't care what others think of my views...the fact is that they do fail frequently and that by by 70-100 miles they are worn out in most cases...so why on earth would one spend a chunk on one that hadn't been rebuilt? Makes no sense at all even if considering buying a cheap one....like I said they are gambling man's dream if unfettered!


I clearly remember when I bought my 993 the indie telling me that he didn’t remember the last time a 993 came in on the back of a breakdown truck but they had 996/997 coming in regularly. I thought it might be a sales pitch but two years down the line I realise it wasn’t. Gutting for you at such a low mileage.

*waits for Zingari’s cutting garage queens comment*
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Last edited by Albionmuz on Sat Aug 18, 2018 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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rob_p
Österreich


Joined: 20 Oct 2013
Posts: 905
Location: Leicester


PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: She’s in at Hartech getting the full £10k rebuild... Reply with quote

911DG wrote:
Hi guys

Borescoping - killed my 997s car at 40,00 miles. Total ***** and poor design fault but it is what it is (I bought a A4 run about for £1.9k and seems more reliable). Seriously how the Fkkk can that happen - joke!?! The fabled 911 is really not that rock solid is it. Thing is I love em so it’s gone from a 15 year love/love relationship to a love/hate.

Anyway - moan over, £10k bill coming - hey Ho. MY Question is, is there anything I should also get done while she’s there and the engine is taken apart ??? Don’t get this opportunity very often so I thought I’d ask you lot.

As usual I bow to your advise and it’s always appreciated.

Cheers

Dan


Once they get it all apart Grant will advise you on any extra works required including preventative type stuff. You are in good hands....
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Plus some other stuff that wasn't very interesting....
 
  
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14527
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not going to get caufgt up in another borescore debate, but as you sadly seem to be one of the unfortunaite percentage .I would suggest as Robert sausage says the coolant pipes that go over the rear axle are only a £100 ish and it would save another £1000 engine drop in the future to get those done. have a chat with Baz or Grant about the extra cost to take yours to the 3.9 upgrade and see if you can justify it to yourself . As you sound like you have had Porsches for 15 years I would be interested in your thoughts as to your opinion of the ave maintanance costs of these cars pa over a 5 /10 yr period. My thoughts are we are at 2k to 2.5k pa ave which could be a regular drip feed or in some cases a few years of quite low costs maybe 1k to 1.2k pa and then a big hit maybe 6k/10k but when you work it back it still ave out at somewhere like 2k to 2.5k pa. whats your thought Thumb

I am interested as I have had a crap year since xmas with my 997.2 costing me 8k in that time on a gearbox rebuild , coolant pipes replaced , clutch and flywheel , window actuator , and a set of solonoids and sensors to try and rectify my current running issue. but as I had 4.5 years of very cheap running with my gen1 I am currently still only at just over 2k pa ave for my years of 997 ownership now if my current issue ends up a big bill that could pust it up to between 2.5k and 3k pa ave but that will come down if I hang on to the car for say another 3or4 years and would then end up at the same 2k to 2.5k ave pa cost. and I am talking about a big bill similar to yours . still would be an ouch moment at spending another 10k this year after already spending 8k so yes we could be looking at 18k this year in maintanance but add that to the low costs of my gen1 for 4.5 years and me keeping the gen2 for another 4 yrs ontop of the 18months I have had it so your ave it over 10 yrs so thats 25k avail to spend in maintanance well provided the next 4 were quite low and too be honest there wouldnt be much left to break over that period .I would still be in the 2.5k ave area.
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hermes
Newbie


Joined: 08 May 2017
Posts: 21



PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve had my C4S 18 months now and it’s cost me a fortune so far.

Just passed 70,000 miles and the last oil change did not look good, so doing another 500 miles before the next inspection. Conversation with Grant at Hartech for rebuild is already underway.

The car was going to be a stepping stone to a 996 GT3 (always wanted one), but looks like it’s now a long term proposition. So, Cargraphic exhaust system ordered, bucket seats paid for, and some chavvy Oz wheels fitted so the Turbo alloys can have a refurb.

Probably keep the car now until I can’t afford the petrol anymore (famous last words!)
 
  
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Norfolk & Idea
Barcelona


Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 1368
Location: South Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well mines champion thumbsup

Anyone got % figures. Come on Dammit, you must have some facts and figures on 997.1 versus 997.2 woes??
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2008 Ducati 1098R (Track)
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2008 Vito Sport- Household Star!
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GMG
Monza


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 192
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

% figures are pointless; more relevant is the plain truth that every single Porsche specialist that I spoke to before buying a 996 had engines ready to be rebuilt ,engines that they were rebuilding and long histories of the same...the specialist rebuilding my engine (RSR PORSCHA) is run by 2 ex Porsche formen and have the same story to tell...there are some businesses that exist on simply rebuilding these engines...

I know people don't want to accept the following but these engines are fundamentally flawed, don't wear well and can break without warning leaving owners with massive bills...

There are members on this forum that will say my 100k miles plus is running like a charm...the fact is that the engine will be really,really worn...
 
  
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rob001
Silverstone


Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Posts: 113



PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Based on all of this what I wonder which one will the “better” engine at the end:
-Gen 1 full rebuild (like Hartech, LN etc.)?
-Gen 2 DFI engine?

For the price difference you can rebuild especially when looking for a manual.
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Norfolk & Idea
Barcelona


Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Posts: 1368
Location: South Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GMG wrote:
% figures are pointless; more relevant is the plain truth that every single Porsche specialist that I spoke to before buying a 996 had engines ready to be rebuilt ,engines that they were rebuilding and long histories of the same...the specialist rebuilding my engine (RSR PORSCHA) is run by 2 ex Porsche formen and have the same story to tell...there are some businesses that exist on simply rebuilding these engines...

I know people don't want to accept the following but these engines are fundamentally flawed, don't wear well and can break without warning leaving owners with massive bills...

There are members on this forum that will say my 100k miles plus is running like a charm...the fact is that the engine will be really,really worn...


Well I for one don't buy into your pessimism. I'm fairly certain the numbers/facts will totally discredit your theory. There are many, many engine builders out there and it's not just Porsche ffs!

How many 996 or 997 engines out there that haven't gone pop? Quite a few I'd say.

I think you're basing your judgment purely on bitter experience. Get a grip man.
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GMG
Monza


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 192
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...actually I am not pessimistic; rather realistic unless people believe you know better than Hartech for example (revered) on here?

If I could be bothered I would dig out their threads that have discussed explicitly how the majority of these engines wear significantly, which can he seen when stripped down either for pre-emptive or remedial work...especially those up on miles which will be the majority on the market.

I'm simply attempting to use my experience and the original OPs experience to offer potential buyers an authentic insight into the risks...the sad thing is that you and many on this forum appear perversely unable to acknowledge this;rather naively peddling the same unhelpful rhetoric that most will be fine!
 
  
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