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Ericf
Newbie


Joined: 18 Jun 2018
Posts: 7



PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:48 am    Post subject: Elmstone Classics - Carrera 2 Manual Reply with quote

Hi All

Has anyone ever heard of/bought from these guys? They have an 03 Arctic Silver Carrera 2 manual for sale at 19,995. It's done 69,000 miles with new clutch, IMS etc.

Seems good to me, does the price seem in the right place?

I thought my sensible side had put this idea to bed for a while but it won't go away and I keep looking!

Thanks.

E
 
  
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6192
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would want to know what else it had had done in terms of suspension refresh, radiators, condensers. Sounds a bit pricey to me but if the condition is absolutely spot on it could be OK.

MC
 
  
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77szymon
Trainee


Joined: 14 Mar 2018
Posts: 97
Location: UK

2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I don't know dealer but price is massive 20k, there some nice cars now up for sale on ebay with engine rebuild.

I have learn a lot about porsches since I have one and as for today 996 if I will be looking to buy one it must be after hartech engine rebuild.


IMS RMS are not a problem as these are not expesive to do it.
_________________
2003 Porsche 911 996 c4s
1988 BMW 635csi Highline - waiting for full restoration
1999 BMW e36 328i Cabrio - still not finished project.....
2011 Mercedes S350L
2004 Audi a2 1.4 tdi - I can't stress enough how good these cars are
2012 Mercedes C220 cdi Estate AMG Sport Plus Pack - wife
 
  
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rdodger
Silverstone


Joined: 08 Apr 2018
Posts: 149
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have any experience of the seller, but I would want to know what work has been carried out in the last few years and what the warranty is.

As already mentioned at this age radiators & AC radiators are near the end of their life. Mine is also having a new front to back pipe, also common.

RMS I would imagine has been done with the clutch. AOS might be an idea?

Other stuff at this age would be shocks and suspension bushes are again going to be past their best.

Mine is 69000 miles and drives well on original suspension & bushes with no clunks or other noises. It will I'm sure benefit from a full going over and I plan to do that in the next 12 months or so.


Warranty wise if you are paying a dealer price I would want something comprehensive that covers everything for the first 3 months. A few specialists have their own warranty not what I got which isn't worth the paper it's written on.

A pre purchase inspection would be a good idea and perhaps pay for it's self if it gives you some negotiating power.

To give you an idea. I bought a "mint" 2004 C2 a couple of months ago and so far have spent approx 3k. Some I knew about some not.

Clutch, AOS, RMS, water pump, exhaust, low temp stat, coils, oil pressure sender, tyres, 2x ac condensor, AC pipe, steering wheel clock spring.

To be honest some of that work was for peace of mind but it soon mounts up.

Despite this I am still happy I bought the car. I love it and plan to keep it as long as I can still buy petrol. A 996 is still a great value car for what you get.

Good luck!
 
  
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sackerley
Silverstone


Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 113



PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

77szymon wrote:
Hi,

I don't know dealer but price is massive 20k, there some nice cars now up for sale on ebay with engine rebuild.

I have learn a lot about porsches since I have one and as for today 996 if I will be looking to buy one it must be after hartech engine rebuild.


IMS RMS are not a problem as these are not expesive to do it.


Sorry but are we really at the stage of suggesting a people shouldn’t touch a 996 unless it’s had a rebuild, that’s crazy! I do find this kind of ‘advice’ very unhelpful

OP get a ppi done and go in with your eyes open. As other have said check thouroughly the recent works done.

Mine looked a good one too and checked out ok and has largely been great.. it’s Still cost 5k in the last couple of years sorting bits and peices (some cosmetic to deal with my ocd!), servicing etc. Hasn’t put me off one bit though, I like to think of it as a project.

Good luck 👍
_________________
1998 Artic Silver 996.1 - manual - carbon interior - Momo Protopito
 
  
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rdodger
Silverstone


Joined: 08 Apr 2018
Posts: 149
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly sackerley.

These cars are at least 14 years old now and will need maintaining if you want to keep them as they were intended.
 
  
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Griffter
Monza


Joined: 22 May 2016
Posts: 209



PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some reason I can’t read the description. From the little I can see in the photos it’s a fairly basic spec. If that’s what you want and if it’s in genuinely good condition, I’d say for £20k from a specialist with 69k it’s good value. Any well sorted 996 is a £20k car these days.
A few things to bear in mind:
I’ve never heard of Elmstone Classics (which in itself means very little) - they do not seem to be one of the better know specialists. You’re already after testimonials. Check out their warranty if possible as well.
The 3.6 is one of the generation of engines more prone to bore scoring. Read up on the issues then buy with your eyes open and enjoy life.
 
  
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Ericf
Newbie


Joined: 18 Jun 2018
Posts: 7



PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Description is available on pistonheads but not their own website for some reason.

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-996/2003-996-carrera-2-manual-69k-miles-with-recently-fitted-ims-bearing-new-clutch-and-flywheel-09991-porsche-exclusive-car/8535404#/description

I have looked around and on the face of it thought price was there or thereabouts for a dealer car with that write up - but then I'm no expert at all.

Thanks for all comments.
 
  
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Gunscrossed
Silverstone


Joined: 01 Aug 2018
Posts: 115



PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been looking recently myself and I'd say £20k is ballpark for a car with Hartech rebuild.
Again, I'm a complete newbie but with this car you've got IMS, RMS and the addition of possible bore scoring. All probably not worth worring about dependig on what you read.
You can scare yourself silly researching theses cars Laughing
 
  
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GMG
Silverstone


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 129
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...personally a rebuilt car has to be worth at least £20k as only a brave,rich or foolish person buys one without the requisite engine work...it would seem that if they haven't broken then they are almost completely worn out by 100k miles or at least well on their way...

I would go further and suggest that in the near future only rebuilt cars are going to attract the decent money or sell without having to give them away...they are a very risky proposition bought sans engine work...
 
  
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sackerley
Silverstone


Joined: 16 Mar 2016
Posts: 113



PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GMG wrote:
...personally a rebuilt car has to be worth at least £20k as only a brave,rich or foolish person buys one without the requisite engine work...it would seem that if they haven't broken then they are almost completely worn out by 100k miles or at least well on their way...

I would go further and suggest that in the near future only rebuilt cars are going to attract the decent money or sell without having to give them away...they are a very risky proposition bought sans engine work...


Jesus are these cars built of butter and melt in a mildly hot sun too!

Mines tip top.... 1998 C2 manual... 80k miles, clutch, ims changed, rms, brake lines, AOS... etc etc all done recently... sparkling bill of health from OPC.... but alas no engine rebuild... So the question is... does anybody want my worthless piece of scrap metal That’s clearly about to explode!? Looks like I’m going to have to give it away reading some of the posts here!
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Ericf
Newbie


Joined: 18 Jun 2018
Posts: 7



PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, someone thought it was a decent motor/price as it's sold - engine rebuild or no.

Back to the subject, my understanding has always been that, the documented issues aside, the cars were meant to be used and weren't afraid of high mileage.
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 14514
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ericf wrote:


Back to the subject, my understanding has always been that, the documented issues aside, the cars were meant to be used and weren't afraid of high mileage.



And therein lies part of the problem. A lot of buyers of new/nearly new 911s only use them for round town/short commutes or at weekends. A lot of damage can be done in early life if engines never get up to operating temperature.

It's enthusiasts that own them several years down the line that inherit the issues - nooo

It's a sad fact only made more palatable that the original owners took an awfully bit hit, £££s wise in depreciation. Nowadays they're cheap to buy but, unfortunately at 14 years+ of age, they do need money spent to keep them going.
_________________
2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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GMG
Silverstone


Joined: 07 Jan 2018
Posts: 129
Location: Devon


PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...after removing my rose tinted glasses and reading articles posted by Hartech ,for example, crank bearings are toasted in most cases by 100k...valve guides will be worn etc,etc...

I love 911s and always have however the engines have significant and very expensive issues which is why I believe that higher mileage cars without engine work will suffer disproportionately value wise in years to come...

After my own experience...2 owner,full Porsche history,70k car which is genuinely immaculate condition wise suffered a £15k unpredictable engine failure I couldn't even countenance suggesting anyone buy one without it having had engine out work...why would anyone take this risk objectively?

However and respectfully, one pays their money and....
 
  
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segart
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 28 Jan 2015
Posts: 320
Location: Jersey - Britains South Sea Isle


PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GMG wrote:
...after removing my rose tinted glasses and reading articles posted by Hartech ,for example, crank bearings are toasted in most cases by 100k...valve guides will be worn etc,etc...

I love 911s and always have however the engines have significant and very expensive issues which is why I believe that higher mileage cars without engine work will suffer disproportionately value wise in years to come...

After my own experience...2 owner,full Porsche history,70k car which is genuinely immaculate condition wise suffered a £15k unpredictable engine failure I couldn't even countenance suggesting anyone buy one without it having had engine out work...why would anyone take this risk objectively?

However and respectfully, one pays their money and....

Yes i see your point. The only thing for peace of mind is to buy a marque with proven reliability. Like a Ferrari or Maserati or Lambo. Laughing
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997.2 Carrera 2S pdk
Ex 996 C4S Manual
 
  
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Gunscrossed
Silverstone


Joined: 01 Aug 2018
Posts: 115



PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP, there’s a nice looking early car in the classifieds here for £12.5k
Just needs ambers Smile
 
  
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spongebob squarepants
Estoril


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 3999
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: Elmstone Classics - Carrera 2 Manual Reply with quote

Ericf wrote:
Hi All

Has anyone ever heard of/bought from these guys? They have an 03 Arctic Silver Carrera 2 manual for sale at 19,995. It's done 69,000 miles with new clutch, IMS etc.

Seems good to me, does the price seem in the right place?

I thought my sensible side had put this idea to bed for a while but it won't go away and I keep looking!

Thanks.

E


OP the market is currently dead, as others have said 20k for a 996 without a rebuild is way over the top, especially in this climate.

Most will post based on their own experience, ie buying a 996 without a rebuild, and as yet having no problems, draw your own conclusions BUT when the recognized expert in the field says its not if but when, I (personally) would be buying with a rebuild only, and at 20k that's easy enough on a 996 Thumb Good luck with whatever you decide thumbsup
_________________
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea".



997.2 Carrera 4S PDK (Herman white)
EX 997.2 Carrera S PDK
EX 993 C2 manual in guards red
EX 997 C2 gen 2 PDK
EX 993 Targa
EX 993 Carrera 4 manual
EX 996 3.4 Cabriolet
 
  
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spongebob squarepants
Estoril


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 3999
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: Elmstone Classics - Carrera 2 Manual Reply with quote

Ericf wrote:
Hi All

Has anyone ever heard of/bought from these guys? They have an 03 Arctic Silver Carrera 2 manual for sale at 19,995. It's done 69,000 miles with new clutch, IMS etc.

Seems good to me, does the price seem in the right place?

I thought my sensible side had put this idea to bed for a while but it won't go away and I keep looking!

Thanks.

E


OP the market is currently dead, as others have said 20k for a 996 without a rebuild is way over the top, especially in this climate.

Most will post based on their own experience, ie buying a 996 without a rebuild, and as yet having no problems, draw your own conclusions BUT when the recognized expert in the field says its not if but when, I (personally) would be buying with a rebuild only, and at 20k that's easy enough on a 996 Thumb Good luck with whatever you decide thumbsup
_________________
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea".



997.2 Carrera 4S PDK (Herman white)
EX 997.2 Carrera S PDK
EX 993 C2 manual in guards red
EX 997 C2 gen 2 PDK
EX 993 Targa
EX 993 Carrera 4 manual
EX 996 3.4 Cabriolet
 
  
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Marky911
Kyalami


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 1787



PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, so the market is gradually being steered round to thinking "Only buy a rebuilt car", as it's a case of "when not if".

So if the only cars that end up selling are the rebuilt ones, who is it that ends up winning? The owners who spend £10k+ on a rebuild, maybe even a pre emptive one? The buyers who maybe pay a few grand more for a car as it's had the rebuild?

Or maybe the rebuilders doing the rebuilds.
Remind me again who is shouting the loudest about "when not if" and "pre-emptive rebuilds"....

Oh, rrriiiggghhhtt.

Some folk should just go and buy a nice new Golf R or something. Hassle free and with a nice safe warranty. Things are getting ridiculous. frustrated

I've owned 5 911s. 3 aircooled, 2 water. Which ones had rebuilds?
2 of the aircooled and the 3rd one was ready for one.

Porsche ownership costs money. Hang around these cars long enough and you'll get a big bill. It's pretty simple really.

Sorry for the hijack and rant OP.
 
  
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Marky911
Kyalami


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 1787



PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gunscrossed wrote:
OP, there’s a nice looking early car in the classifieds here for £12.5k
Just needs ambers Smile


No it doesn't. It needs a rebuild first. Keep up with what the people want man.
Grin

That car ain't selling. Along with the other 95% on the market. Very Happy
 
  
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