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Chester J Lampwick
Monza


Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 182
Location: Up North

1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject: Stuck starter (1985 3.2) Reply with quote

After a long hot drive to Classic Le Mans (the fourth year running that Iris has been) we parked her up for three days in the heat.

Ready to set off home I was mortified to find that the starter motor had stuck.

It is a Hi Torque lightweight one that I fitted, the solenoid clicked but nothing. The battery wasn't flat, and an attempted jump start from a passing Turbo didn't help.

A quick tow start got us going, I later pulled over on a hill and cut the engine, same thing, I had to bump start. When we arrived at Calais, via Dieppe (ferry canceled) I let the people behind me in the queue know that I may need a push start, but it had miraculously fixed itself, and has been working fine all the way home.

What to do you think? Could it have just got stuck due to the heat making the aluminium expand and something bind? If it was dirty it seems a big coincidence that this is the only time it has happened.

I guess its going to have to come off and apart before I can trust it to go to the Silverstone Classic.
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6783
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It can be the earth lead on the gearbox to the bodywork is corroded .

It can also be the starter .. its a bad contact in the solinoid on the starter motor .. at the end of the day its nothing more than 2 bolts with a copper strip thats jammed against them to allow the current to flow to the motor .

You get arching of the current over time which burns the contacts , this causes a poor connection and reduces the current flow so that the starter wont spin over ... heat will make a difference as to wether it will or wont start sometimes .. hence it can be a little intermitant.

one thing i have come accross in the past ..

Some of the "new" starters need a higher current draw for the solinoid .. ive fitted new motors and then had to wire up a seperate relay to give a larger current to the solinoid .

This is usually mentioned as a possible fault with the instructions though .
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Chester J Lampwick
Monza


Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 182
Location: Up North

1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera

PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply. I spoke to an old friend last night who is an ex rally mechanic and retired police fleet service manager.

He suggests remove the starter and get it tested or replaced, it could be something obvious but probably isn't, and if I leave it alone sods law says the next time it plays up it will be at the one time or place that failure is not an option.
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Chester J Lampwick
Monza


Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 182
Location: Up North

1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I think I've found the problem, though I don't know why it happened, I presume it got too hot:




Those three gouges go deep into the segments, plus there is heat damage to the insulation arond the area. I can only assume they were caused by extreme arcing. There is no sign of contact or arcing to the coils or magnets.

New one to order tomorrow, lets see if it comes in time for the Silverstone Classic.
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6783
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well ive never stripped a starter on one of these but the grooves are there to balence the rotor , the insulation i cant really say .. the colour is wrong compaired to a modern one but its only there to insulate the windings... it looks rather uniform where as melted and it would have pooled in the case you have removed.

Its still the starter imho but i think the problem is in the solinoid part .. would be interesting to see if you could strip that part and what conditions the contacts are in ... if you can then it might save you a few pennys.
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Chester J Lampwick
Monza


Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 182
Location: Up North

1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops! Just found out from my mate Sparky, (you guessed it, he used to be an electrician) that yes, the grooves are for balancing, so I came on here to sneakily edit my post, only to find that deMort got here first! Embarassed

I'll see whats in the other part of the motor next...

BTW, what happened to Impact Bumpers, I'm just getting a message to say that it isn't there...?
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6783
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol .. dont worry , it sounds very much like a starter to me but more the solinoid part of it .

Impact bumper i dont know but Impact is a bodyshop next door to were i work .
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Chester J Lampwick
Monza


Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 182
Location: Up North

1985 Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok the solenoid part came apart easier than I expected, as you can see, signs of arcing but not gummed up with carbon or anything.





What now?

1) Try and clean it up with fine wet and dry, then put it back on?

2) Just move the disc round so there is a fresh contact patch?

3) Stop being such a tightwad and just buy a new one, for peace of mind?
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Gazc2
Kyalami


Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 1925
Location: Perthshire


PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its another forum Ian for air cooled cars, seems to be working now

https://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/

I`m sure there was a batch of these starters that were not engaging properly a couple of years ago. The boys on IB will know
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1990 964 C2
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1986 944 2.5 (later fitted with a 2.7 after wife went scuba diving in a flood and popped a piston through the block)
 
  
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6783
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aghh i see .. strange i work next door to an Impact .. had me confused that did lol . Thumb

i think number 3 atm .. there is no obvious signs of something that can be repaired .

It can be the gearbox earth strap so a qhick check would be a jump lead and if possible to the battery but a basic rule of thumb .. if a starter solinoid clicks but the car doesnt turn over then its a starter motor fault .. and thats 991 gen 2 as well .

I am wondering what that copper tab on the left actually does though .

Unless its a power take off for another spade terminal on the outside of the solinoid .

Btw if you are going to clean it up and refit just to check .. make sure the comutator is sanded down .. the pretty black bit in the first picture , also make sure the brushes there are makeing a good contact .
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