Should have hung on to it....

My old 968 cabrio is up for sale at Brookspeed...

We sold it 3 years ago for £10K less than it is up for - should have kept it!

Yep, my 994 s2 was up for sale at double the price I sold it for a few years back. I hate to think what my 993 would be up for on a forecourt today but you can't keep them all so keep the photos and the memories and move on!

Yep we all have our "one that got away". :frustrated: :grin:

I sold my 964T for £25k in 2012. It was up for £100k last year at RPM.
And I sold my GT3 mk1 CS for £42k in 2014.

I think I miss the 964T more as a road car and for looks.

Timely thread though mike as I'm constantly searching the ads following 968 cab prices and R129 Merc prices. Either of those would make a great everyday classic from March to October. I'm not serious for a year or two but they're my top two at the moment. :thumb:

My old 968 was a great introduction to Porsches - under-rated car and was a bargain when I bought it

Yes they're great cars. I couldn't stomach paying £25k mind.
It'd have to be a high miler or something and cost about £12k.

I remember when CS's were £16k. £40k these days. Crazy really.

I have a 968 that I have had for nearly 20 years and consider selling it most winters. I put very little mileage on it and it suffers because of it, even though it is stored undercover. I have had more niggles with it than my Alfa GTV!

I notice that although there are some very high priced ones being advertised, they don't shift very quickly. Some have been up for sale for a year or so.

Must be the most under rated Porsche out there, even 944s seem to be more desirable even though the 968 is a better car.

So few were made, they handle really well but seem to be under the radar
and plenty of people haven't got a clue what it is or how old they are now.

If it's not a Club Sport they don't appear to be that desired.

I think it safe to say that they are not considered very 'cool" by anyone but aficianados unless they are the vaunted Club Sport.

I would love a 968 but I disagree about it being the better car than the 944. The later 944 Turbo at least is a much better car IMHO and which is why they are so popular. As I understand it a lot of the 968s came with tiptronic which is also what puts off most potential buyers who want a fun weekend car / track car.

Dealer prices for anything Porsche are extremely exageratted and I've seen the same 968s, 944s and 928s for sale for 12 months+ at inflated prices. A more realistic view is to have a look what average cars on going for on ebay.

Had a look at a 928 S4 late last year where they wanted £16k, there were leaks everywhere, bits missing from the interior and little to no history.

One of the biggest puzzles in my job is pinning down what a car is worth, especially for Insurance valuations, where instead of market value, you need to price up the compensation value following a total loss, which really needs to be how much someone needs to spend to get a replacement car, plus what they would then need to spend to get it to the point where it is as good as their existing one.

The problem from the buyers perspective, is on the surface, you could have a car on ebay that is £14k, and another on pistonheads for £24k, which may look as good, the mileage may even be lower on the cheaper car, but it is amazing how easily you can spend £14k on a £14k Porsche, getting it up to spec and so it drives like a good one again.

The only real solution as a buyer is to be dedicated to driving all the ones you can find, read everything you can find on the subject, ignoring the prices until you find the right car, which drives really well, looks great and has had all the important things done in recent history.

From a sellers point of view, it is even harder, especially if you have a really great example of whatever model.

A few years ago (maybe 3 or 4), I had a really low mileage 944 2.7 Lux, which was an absolutely concours quality example with only around 60,000 miles from memory... And the question was, how much do I sell it for?

There were rough examples out there for £4k, at the time 944 Turbos were selling for 18k for a nice one and I spent a couple of months pondering on the subject.

I knew it was not worth as much as a really nice turbo, but I also knew it was so much better than anything I could find for sale as a straight non turbo 2.5 8v.

In the end I thought I would run a bit of an experiment...

I knew that when Porsche launched these cars, the sale price was not connected with the cost of manufacture, but how desirable they were, so I wondered if it could be possible to work out a desirability index or ratio and use a spreadsheet to work out the value of any one model, from a known regular sale value of another, using this desirability index.

So I put together the new prices for a 1989 944 2.7, 944S2, 944S2Cab, 944Turbo, with the turbo being the highest price, programmed the spreadsheet to work out a desirability ratio of the others, compared to the turbo.

I then extended it to work out the true "like for like" condition of any of the models, based on common sale price of a turbo.

Using this spreadsheet, the output would suggest that at the time, the 2.7 was probably worth £12k, which to be honest, blew my socks off.

Obviously the spreadsheet assumes the desirability of a 944 2.7, compared to a turbo, is the same today, as it was in 1989..

I then spent the next few weeks watching prices, and seeing that no 944 2.5 or 2.7 non turbo 8 valve sold for more than £7k.

Regardless, I thought sod it and advertised the 2.7 I owned for £12k

It hung around for a couple of months, which to be honest, if a Porsche I am selling sells within less time than that, I would probably think I had under valued it, but it sold to a really pleased chap who had been hunting for a 944 on and off for a couple of years.

Over the course of the following couple of months, I could probably have sold it again several times over, but that is what usually happens if the price is about right.

At the time a 944 Turbo, with sub 100k miles, would sell within a couple of months for about £18k.

The spreadsheet predicted a 944S2 was worth in similar condition £15k to £16k, and a 944 lux was £12k... But at the time typically an S2 was only selling for £9k and a lux for under £7k.

I have too many cars in my Porsche collection and am always saying I should sell some of them, but never get around to it.

Part of the problem is I look back on some of my cars I have sold in the past... My 88 911 turbo for £37k a few years ago, my 968CS for £14k about ten years ago, and my 993RS for £50k back 17 years ago.

They have all gone through the roof, and there have been times when they dipped, but they always recovered and gone up again.

But on the flip side, I hate to think how much my collection costs me every year... Not just the expected costs, but the daft things like fines for forgetting to MOT them, which causes the road tax to not continue, which then leads to a sorn fine if one month I am not on the ball with checking them.. Bit of a nightmare really.

I have sold a few cars in the past which I would have liked to have kept but I always think I sold it for a reason at the time and it was mostly to upgrade to something better so usually I have no regrets.

From the estimating a price point of view, I picked my 944S up for £2k around 3 years ago, prices have definitely hotted up for them being the second rarest to the 944 Turbo S in numbers left, I see prices from £4k to £14 for similar cars and I can't really put a price on mine as I have gone through it and done everything including a full engine rebuild/refresh which I hardly ever see on some of the other cars for sale.
I think for this model it mostly goes on mileage as this is one of those hard to price cars, I have seen them sell at £7k and I would hope mine would eventually sell for something similar or less but £7k being the top end but all dependent of where the market goes in the near future.

infrasilver said:

I have sold a few cars in the past which I would have liked to have kept but I always think I sold it for a reason at the time and it was mostly to upgrade to something better so usually I have no regrets.

From the estimating a price point of view, I picked my 944S up for £2k around 3 years ago, prices have definitely hotted up for them being the second rarest to the 944 Turbo S in numbers left, I see prices from £4k to £14 for similar cars and I can't really put a price on mine as I have gone through it and done everything including a full engine rebuild/refresh which I hardly ever see on some of the other cars for sale.
I think for this model it mostly goes on mileage as this is one of those hard to price cars, I have seen them sell at £7k and I would hope mine would eventually sell for something similar or less but £7k being the top end but all dependent of where the market goes in the near future.

Click to expand...

You are right about the 944S models being relatively unrecognised for their rareness.. But I also think you did well when you bought it, I have a customer needing an engine for one, and is currently looking at £2.5k to £3k for a used engine and has very few options.

I also agree about selling for a reason, my 993RS bought me a house when I moved the business back to the UK from Cyprus in 2002, and all of them in one way or another had massively increased in value over what I paid for them and I was very happy to turn them back into cash.

With pricing though, it is really tricky.. It all depends on how you want the sale to go, many 944's out there are priced to sell, and sell relatively quickly, where the buyer would probably not have actually been looking for that car, or had done their homework, but had bought it on the basis of "Wow I like that for that much money", rather than "That is the car I have been looking for".

Then others interested in selling one, looks at those prices, often on ebay, and sets their yard stick by the basis of what the other one sold or was advertised for, which kind of drives down the market.

Then on the flip side, there are highly priced cars which seem to be advertised for a year at a time. But some of these that I have then seen after someone has purchased them, have not been as golden as they seemed in the write up, needing lots spending on them. Which could be why they took so long to sell.

This last category is a bit of a shame, because it tends to mean that the really top notch cars, which should sell for those higher prices are marred as being "dreamers" with the comparison being "Well look at X car at Y dealer, that has been there for a year at that price"..

Combined with that is pricing a car, not to sell quickly to a bargain hunter, which sets a low bar, but pricing the car based on emotion, by putting yourself in a particular buyers shoes.

A lot of the enthusiasts, the kind of people you get in here I expect, own a Porsche because something triggered them to want one a while ago, maybe even decades ago when they were a child, or their boss had one when they were at the start of their careers.

It could have been a red 911SC, the buyer is now in his 50s, the mortgage is paid off, the kids have left home, and here is the first time he could justify and afford it.

This kind of buyer wants that car.. Not a blue one just because its nearer, or a less than perfect one, but a Red 911SC, Coupe and it needs to be like a new car, just as he remembered that one that got him excited 30 years earlier.

This buyer will travel, will pay more than the average more casual buyer would, but he wants it to be perfect.. Not with a cracked dashboard, not with old looking wheels, and not with squeaks when it runs over a bumpy road.

The problem is, that buyer might not even be out there and looking when you first advertise the car, I have known some of these to keep looking for a couple of years before they find "that car"... But sometimes, if the car is really awesome in condition, drives like a new one, has no faults that anyone can pick holes in, then that car can usually sell for a massive premium, but the seller might need to wait for 6 months or more for the right person to come along.

All of this makes it tricky... To catch that whale of a buyer, in reward for selling a great car, needs patience, conviction, and most importantly a perfect example of a car... But it works.

The hardest cars to sell are the rough ones, or the ones which do not quite meet the bar for condition.. You can often spend more than the premium buyer whale selling prices in trying to get the wrong car to be that right car..

So happy I am not involved in car sales, because the other problem from a business perspective, you are competing against some really sharp traders, who are experts at getting a rough one to seem like a great one... And you just cant compete with that.

JonMit said:

You are right about the 944S models being relatively unrecognised for their rareness.. But I also think you did well when you bought it, I have a customer needing an engine for one, and is currently looking at £2.5k to £3k for a used engine and has very few options.

Click to expand...

On a side note to this thread, I rebuilt mine as the bores were scored, a 944 2.5 8v bottom end is the same and everything else from the 16v 2.5 can be fit back on it, all depending what is wrong with his engine obviously, you can get used heads if this is the problem? Also with a rebuild you know the engine is refreshed and good for another good few years. The whole rebuild only cost me in the region of £600. PM if you need more info, or look at my 944 thread.

I've lost thousands & thousands on various sports cars throughout my obsession with nice cars, not so much on Porsches though, my wife recently asked me do you regret it?

The answer is a definite no, I would do it all again I loved owning them, driving them looking at them, there has been a couple of cars I should have bought that have sky rocketed in price, but hey ho all part of life.

The biggest mistake I ever made was not buying a tired out shabby Ferrari Dino 246 I was offered for £16.5K & I chose to buy a nearly new Vauxhall Calibra for £12.5K instead. :floor:

Albionmuz said:

I have a 968 that I have had for nearly 20 years and consider selling it most winters. I put very little mileage on it and it suffers because of it, even though it is stored undercover. I have had more niggles with it than my Alfa GTV!

I notice that although there are some very high priced ones being advertised, they don't shift very quickly. Some have been up for sale for a year or so.

Must be the most under rated Porsche out there, even 944s seem to be more desirable even though the 968 is a better car.

So few were made, they handle really well but seem to be under the radar
and plenty of people haven't got a clue what it is or how old they are now.

If it's not a Club Sport they don't appear to be that desired.

I think it safe to say that they are not considered very 'cool" by anyone but aficianados unless they are the vaunted Club Sport.

Click to expand...

Since posting the above I made the decision to start using the 968. Cost a few bob to get it running as it should but I have been using it as a daily driver for the last 6 weeks and have fallen back in love with the car I bought all those years ago. No intention of selling it now and it is running very well, every trip brings smile, it seems to like being used! Although my favourite car is still the 993 I feel the 968 is a much more user friendly car.

infrasilver said:

JonMit said:

You are right about the 944S models being relatively unrecognised for their rareness.. But I also think you did well when you bought it, I have a customer needing an engine for one, and is currently looking at £2.5k to £3k for a used engine and has very few options.

Click to expand...

On a side note to this thread, I rebuilt mine as the bores were scored, a 944 2.5 8v bottom end is the same and everything else from the 16v 2.5 can be fit back on it, all depending what is wrong with his engine obviously, you can get used heads if this is the problem? Also with a rebuild you know the engine is refreshed and good for another good few years. The whole rebuild only cost me in the region of £600. PM if you need more info, or look at my 944 thread.

Click to expand...

Blimey, you have my attention as that really should not have worked.

Did you use the 16v pistons or the 8v pistons?

New rings or reused rings?

And the original worn bore of the 8v bottom end?

You have my attention because in theory, or by the book at least, just about any combination of the above, should not have worked. I would love to hear more about this.

JonMit said:

infrasilver said:

JonMit said:

You are right about the 944S models being relatively unrecognised for their rareness.. But I also think you did well when you bought it, I have a customer needing an engine for one, and is currently looking at £2.5k to £3k for a used engine and has very few options.

Click to expand...

On a side note to this thread, I rebuilt mine as the bores were scored, a 944 2.5 8v bottom end is the same and everything else from the 16v 2.5 can be fit back on it, all depending what is wrong with his engine obviously, you can get used heads if this is the problem? Also with a rebuild you know the engine is refreshed and good for another good few years. The whole rebuild only cost me in the region of £600. PM if you need more info, or look at my 944 thread.

Click to expand...

Blimey, you have my attention as that really should not have worked.

Did you use the 16v pistons or the 8v pistons?

New rings or reused rings?

And the original worn bore of the 8v bottom end?

You have my attention because in theory, or by the book at least, just about any combination of the above, should not have worked. I would love to hear more about this.

Click to expand...

The 8v block had the same bore and stroke as the 2.5 16v engine, 100mm x 78.9mm I used the original 16v pistons with the valve cut outs in them and new 16v rings, I don't think there is much if anything different between the bare blocks.

Some info in my thread below of what I did but nothing too technical to show.

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=108492&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=200