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Kbald
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Joined: 11 May 2018
Posts: 71
Location: West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:14 pm    Post subject: Centre radiator Reply with quote

Hi i have started working through my list of jobs detailed in another thread and todays job was to whip the front bumper off to fit mesh and clean out. The mesh is fitted (loosesly) but eill need to find a better fixing solution.

The two side radiators were fine and new but the centre one is worse ror wear and thr lower fixing bracket is totally rusted and falling aprt.

From the picture would this radiator be to keep as it dowsnt seem to be leaking and i can just replace the lower bracket or is it a new one needed?
 
  
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Kbald
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Joined: 11 May 2018
Posts: 71
Location: West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The photo!
 
  
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deMort
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Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5014
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cant see the photo .. if you cant post it then feel free to email me it and i will Smile

De.Mort@virginmedia.com
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Kbald
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Posts: 71
Location: West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks I will do I can't work out how to add it! Sad
 
  
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deMort
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Joined: 21 Mar 2015
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Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its a bit too big .. i used paint to shrink it..
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deMort
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Joined: 21 Mar 2015
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Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your answer is here Smile

https://www.deroure.com/diagrams.asp?MAK=3&MDL=25&TBL=2530&SMA=&SMO=0&ST=&SC=0
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Dammit
Albert Park


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1722



PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slight hijack, I was on track on Thursday and the temperature was just shy of the 100 degree line - would a third rad bring this back down?
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Kbald
Trainee


Joined: 11 May 2018
Posts: 71
Location: West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. Do you think the rad would still be OK though if it isn't leaking and if I just replace the bottom bracket holder?
 
  
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5014
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The higher the surface area of something like a rad would increase cooling so yes a third rad would , your car doesnt have one as standard but i suspect one could be retro fitted .. its all down to any body work fixings .

Something i would need to take a look at before giving a 100 % yes answer Smile

100 degrees though is not excessive , thats not far off stage 2 fan operation .. 110 and yes something more is needed .
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deMort
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Joined: 21 Mar 2015
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Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kbald wrote:
Thanks. Do you think the rad would still be OK though if it isn't leaking and if I just replace the bottom bracket holder?


If its not leaking then its fine ..

How long it will last is anyones guess though , i would go with a bottom bracket and a mesh grill and see how you get on .

Im not a fan of replaceing parts that are not broken though .
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Kbald
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Location: West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thumbsup thanks will just get a new bracket. Mesh is on and the rest is waxoiled under there so hopefully will be fine for a while! Saves draining the coolant down to replace it!
 
  
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Kbald
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Joined: 11 May 2018
Posts: 71
Location: West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also does anyone know what this wire is for? There seems to be one each side!
 



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Dammit
Albert Park


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1722



PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deMort wrote:
The higher the surface area of something like a rad would increase cooling so yes a third rad would , your car doesnt have one as standard but i suspect one could be retro fitted .. its all down to any body work fixings .

Something i would need to take a look at before giving a 100 % yes answer Smile

100 degrees though is not excessive , thats not far off stage 2 fan operation .. 110 and yes something more is needed .


It seemed perfectly happy tbh, I just get the panics when the needle isn't pointing straight up. I doubt I'll ever get it hotter - it was roasting at Brands on Thursday and I was having a lot of fun.
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5014
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Kbald .. that is part of a Tracker .. the antenna to be correct .. i doubt its active anymore and could well do with being removed .

The battery on it can fail and cause flat battery / discharge problems .

@ Dammit .. dont worry .. you have enough mods as it is Very Happy
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6104
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before running increased power I will be running a third radiator. I will have the flow to it controlled by either an electronically controlled valve or an inline thermostat though. Mine regularly sees just over 100 in slow traffic.

MC
 
  
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Dammit
Albert Park


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1722



PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting - I've never seen it over 100, and that's with stop/start traffic in London making 10 miles take over an hour.

I have actually priced up a third rad kit before, as it's part of the X51 kit - surprisingly affordable was my conclusion.

MC - I've seen some posts about Hartech and their view on an inline thermometer being a requirement for the third rad, do you have more info on this?

DeMort - the mods are going to continue I'm afraid
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6104
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had independently come to the same conclusion as Baz on this so agree with him 100%. On the 996 Carrera engines the temperature is controlled on the return to the engine, in a steady state situation the temperature drop across the radiators must equal the temperature rise across the engine. So if at low loads you increase the radiator area, you will increase the temperature drop in the coolant, the thermostat will start to close to keep the temperature correct and the outlet temperature on the engine will rise. So basically until the thermostat is in a fully open state you don't want extra cooling. A simple electronic valve with a suitable temperature control as used for radiator fans should do the trick, or use an output from the ECU if using an aftermarket ECU.

I monitor the temperature on my air con controls, the highest I have seen is about 103.

MC
 
  
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5014
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Dammit .. i have no doubt they will and i look forward to them as always Very Happy

As reguards over heating then i can only offer what i think ..

Stage 1 , a/c on or about engine temp of 95 , stage 2 and its about 104 .

104 and the car thinks its getting a little hot so fans are at full speed , the car expects these to run for a few mins then switch off .

Obviously the water pump circulates the coolant to the rads to cool and returns it to the engine to soak up more heat then return it to the rads to " loose " the heat .

More rads or a larger surface area and the cooling effect is higher , fan speed also.

What can effect the cooling ..

A worn water pump .. the impeller is not moveing the coolant fast enough.

Thermostate not fully opening .

Partially blocked rads .. normal ageing will do this .

Damaged fins on the rads .

The build up of dirt / debris between the condensor and the rad .. pretty common and restricts air flow .. pulling away the a/c condensor and clearing it all out can have a significant impact on cooling .

It is after all similar to putting cardboard in front of the rads like we used to do in winter !

So .. water pump , rads and blockages can impact cooling effect as can a low speed fan inop (resistor ).

For increased power then that will generate more heat .. its the nature of the beast .. so more power will mean more cooling is needed .

A third rad in this case is indeed warrented but the above also needs to be taken into consideration .

The temp gauge .. im not going into details but it will read higher on warming up so 80 degrees and its not actually reached that , above 80 and the gauge is slow to react .. it will be higher but not register that .. but in the event of an over heat the gauge will increse rapidly in line with the over heat .

@MC .. this isnt aimed at you , you know very well how it all works .. but many people read these posts .. now and in the future so i try to explain it as basically as possible.
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Last edited by deMort on Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6104
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Partially blocked by leaves....



MC
 
  
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bazhart
Approved Trader


Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 883
Location: Bolton Lancashire


PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue about the 3rd radiator isn't just theory - we tested it with temperature sensors inside the engine and proved it.

IF your engine is getting too hot because for the conditions you are in and use you are putting it to - then a 3rd radiator will definitely help cool it down more - there is no question about that.


So if on track on a very hot day your coolant is getting too hot and everything else about the car is perfect - then an additional radiator will help.


The problem with the 3rd radiator is all the times the ambient conditions and use do not require all the radiator area you had when there were only 2 - when what Alex says is also right - that the thermostat closes smaller and the temperature rise inside the engine is higher - so the temperature at the outlet is actually higher.


Bearing in mind that the notorious bank side 2 has the hottest coolant on the thrust side if the engine where scoring starts first - this should be avoided.


We made a thermostat housing to control the 3rd radiator to eliminate the problem under any circumstances.


This is available for early cars but later cars needed a housing that is too expensive to make manually and we are awaiting completion of a plastic version to make it affordable.


Baz
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