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BingB
Silverstone


Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 138



PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:22 pm    Post subject: Car data shows 1 ignition in RR4 incorrectly - Help PLZ Reply with quote

Hi all,

So went to get a warranty added to my 997.1 Turbo and the dealer is saying there is recent activity in RR4; in all the time I've had the car (5 years) it's never hit the limiter.

It does occasionally 'rev flair up' when you start the car to around 3500rpm rather then 1500rpm, this has been reported to OPC in the past but never resolved. Can the rev flair up be logging a non existent RR4?

Problem is I am worried when I come to sell the car that it's a bad example due to the incorrect RR4 data.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6119
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would start by asking to see the full report.

MC
 
  
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Mezgerite
Silverstone


Joined: 02 Nov 2016
Posts: 128



PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nothing you can do. The RR data is grossly inaccurate and should be ignored. It's caused by noise from the crank sensor.

M
 
  
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Magic919
Imola


Joined: 05 Jun 2013
Posts: 792
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it’s a single ignition, then sensible folk will ignore it as spurious.
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jonno_
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 267
Location: Oxfordshire

2005 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree with all the above.
Get full rev range report and if serious, consider cross check against mileage when you had it serviced, if you don't trust the dealer. Surprised
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BingB
Silverstone


Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 138



PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers guys,

Ok so just came back from dealer they can't get any previous readings so can't tell me if the recorded item in RR4 is 1 single ignition.

Problem is I've not added these they seem to only be appearing in RR4, but I'm still getting the start up flare ups, reading some of the US forums this seems to be a common occurance.

So OPC want an extra 800 for a compression and leak down test, plus the price of a 111 check plus the warranty cost.
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
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Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are the results in RR2,3,4. When did they occur? Obviously you can't have a RR4 without 3 and 2.

MC
 
  
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BingB
Silverstone


Joined: 14 May 2013
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MisterCorn wrote:
What are the results in RR2,3,4. When did they occur? Obviously you can't have a RR4 without 3 and 2.

MC


Yes there are some BUT we don't know if they are the same as before or new ones, there csn't be any new ones as I've not been near the limiter.
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jonno_
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 267
Location: Oxfordshire

2005 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you need another OPC.
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jonno_
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 267
Location: Oxfordshire

2005 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you might ask them is what are the current overrev events and how long ago for each rev range.
If they can't do that, try elsewhere.
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Magic919
Imola


Joined: 05 Jun 2013
Posts: 792
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Show them the service bulletin that covers the problem. This is it I think https://rennlist.com/forums/attachments/997-turbo-forum/914630d1424919228-high-rpm-when-starting-wm-287315-adjusting-pulse-sender.pdf
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Ptabi
Trainee


Joined: 12 Nov 2016
Posts: 62



PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i take it you’re car is a manual car?
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Last edited by Ptabi on Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5023
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok .. this is somewhat strange .. im well used to reading off Rev ranges both at OPC and Indy ...

Range 1-6 is displayed , the amount of ignitions in each range is displayed and the operateing hour counter of the LAST occurence is displayed for each rev range .

You have some in range 4 soo .. your list should look something like this ..

range 1 1378 1800 hrs.
range 2 978 1880 hrs
range 3 275 1700 hrs
range 4 45 950 hrs
range 5 0
range 6 0

Thats a typical rev range .. but there are spurious ones which Porsche list as software errors and to be ignored ..

range 1 500 995 hrs
range 2 49 1100 hrs
range 3 1 1200 hrs
range 4 1 1200 hrs
range 5 1 1200 hrs
range 6 0

Bear in mind the operateing hrs can be higher or lower depending on when the largest over rev was recorded .

Anytime ranges of 1 are recorded in more then one rev range and its a spurious reading .. thats just one example .

Basically the OPC can give you a print out of the ranges as i showed in my first list .. if you can get that and post it here we can comment better Smile
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DaveH911
Hockenheim


Joined: 24 Jan 2014
Posts: 650
Location: Derby

2006 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have spurious over revs on mine too but they appear to be just 1 ignition. Over the last 12 months mine has apparently picked up another over rev in ranges 4 and 5 and I know for a fact that my vehicle has been nowhere near these rev ranges. I have the occasional blast but never find the need to exceed 5000 rpm and I have never down changed incorrectly to cause a reading. If I am understanding correctly, one ignition in rev range 5 is something like 0.002 of a second which is impossible.
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5023
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much .. yes ..

A range with just 1 in it can be considered spurious but it also depends on the amount of ignition over revs in the range before ..

Something like 56 range 3 and 1 in range 4 could also be considered as normal over revs .

All we used to do was send the details to Porsche .. they then decided whether or not to give a warrenty or ask for compression / leak down tests .. 3 hours at OPC rates and then Porsche decides one way or the other .. its not cheap im afraid .

Its also down to what the OPC thinks , they may not contact Porsche .. they may just say no .. Dont know

What i can tell you .. an over rev in the range 4 and to a degree in range 5 if more than 200 operateing hours ago will be considered ok and a warrenty granted .

Range 6 and they get a bit cautious , even if above 200 hours since last occurence they may well still say no .... it depends on the amount but rule of thumb and more than 5 and you aint getting a warrenty.

But .. lets be fair here .. range 6 is 1200 or more past the limit .. the chance of engine damage is huge .. i wouldn,t warrenty the car with those odds .. so i agree with Porsche there im afraid .

FYI . i have seen 2 , 3 and 4 in range 6 and these were genuine over revs .
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rabbitstew
Montreal


Joined: 21 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magic919 wrote:
Show them the service bulletin that covers the problem. This is it I think https://rennlist.com/forums/attachments/997-turbo-forum/914630d1424919228-high-rpm-when-starting-wm-287315-adjusting-pulse-sender.pdf


Thats interesting. My car does this very occasionally. Was this a recall or something which an owner would be expected to pay for, as it doesnt sound like a cheap adjustment if transmission has to come out!
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deMort
Zolder


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 5023
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabbitstew wrote:
Magic919 wrote:
Show them the service bulletin that covers the problem. This is it I think https://rennlist.com/forums/attachments/997-turbo-forum/914630d1424919228-high-rpm-when-starting-wm-287315-adjusting-pulse-sender.pdf


Thats interesting. My car does this very occasionally. Was this a recall or something which an owner would be expected to pay for, as it doesnt sound like a cheap adjustment if transmission has to come out!


It was a TSB so not a recall and if not under warrenty then you would have to pay for it.

It also doesnt always work , i seem to remember Kam had it done but it didnt fix his fault ... but i belive a new starter motor did .

Link here ..

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=115541&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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BingB
Silverstone


Joined: 14 May 2013
Posts: 138



PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deMort wrote:
rabbitstew wrote:
Magic919 wrote:
Show them the service bulletin that covers the problem. This is it I think https://rennlist.com/forums/attachments/997-turbo-forum/914630d1424919228-high-rpm-when-starting-wm-287315-adjusting-pulse-sender.pdf


Thats interesting. My car does this very occasionally. Was this a recall or something which an owner would be expected to pay for, as it doesnt sound like a cheap adjustment if transmission has to come out!


It was a TSB so not a recall and if not under warrenty then you would have to pay for it.

It also doesnt always work , i seem to remember Kam had it done but it didnt fix his fault ... but i belive a new starter motor did .

Link here ..

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=115541&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


Yes I had this looked at on mine and it doesn't work, as mine still occasionally does it. OPC have no ideas what to do with it. I didn't know about the new starter motor, I may have to chat to them about that.
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jonno_
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 267
Location: Oxfordshire

2005 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BingB - what was the outcome of the rev range issue?

Did they give you the results of the overrevs and logged operating hours?
Simple to work out approximate mileage from that data.
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rabbitstew
Montreal


Joined: 21 Aug 2015
Posts: 617



PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BingB wrote:
deMort wrote:
rabbitstew wrote:
Magic919 wrote:
Show them the service bulletin that covers the problem. This is it I think https://rennlist.com/forums/attachments/997-turbo-forum/914630d1424919228-high-rpm-when-starting-wm-287315-adjusting-pulse-sender.pdf


Thats interesting. My car does this very occasionally. Was this a recall or something which an owner would be expected to pay for, as it doesnt sound like a cheap adjustment if transmission has to come out!


It was a TSB so not a recall and if not under warrenty then you would have to pay for it.

It also doesnt always work , i seem to remember Kam had it done but it didnt fix his fault ... but i belive a new starter motor did .

Link here ..

http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=115541&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0


Yes I had this looked at on mine and it doesn't work, as mine still occasionally does it. OPC have no ideas what to do with it. I didn't know about the new starter motor, I may have to chat to them about that.


Hmm... mine has already had a new starter motor!

EDIT: Just read all the other threads and very interesting reading. Ive got a duramatic pro so will check my rev ranges to see if its causing anything there. And whilst my car did have a new starter that was 3 years ago and 35000 miles back. Its got a bosch battery on it, but maybe the replaced starter is getting a bit worn. The car seems to turn over and start fine tho.
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