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maldren
Imola


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 818



PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 12:58 pm    Post subject: CG suspension rebuild with Ohlins Reply with quote

Just had may car completely rebuilt at CG.

Having ridden in Dammit's car, I decided to replace the M030 kit with Ohlins and since I was going to that trouble, I thought I would replace all the wearing parts, happeth of tar and all that.

CG advised that drop arms are easy and cheap to replace later if required and rear dog bones are expensive and rarely fail (although they do fail on Turbos) so I didn't get them.

Even though everything was being replaced, Pete started with a drive assessment and geometry check. He immediately picked up on the slight pull to the left (which I knew about) and the various rattles which he attributed to wear in various components, particularly tuning fork ball joints which apparently can't be felt in place but have a characteristic rattle.

Pete was pretty quick as dismantling everything, they've done loads before and it shows. The track rod ends were a bit tight and notchy and the fork ball joints were worn, exactly as picked up on the drive. One of the rear links was also a bit bent so that explained the bad geo on one side. The front drop arms did need replacing, ECP delivered. The rear roll bar bushes that I had been supplied were the wrong size, 26mm rather 25mm, we ordered ECP replacements but they delivered 24mm. The originals were ok so that's a job for another day.

My car came apart really easily, at 96k it's still very good underneath, the only tight part was one of the rear anti roll bar bush bolt which sheared, Pete drilled it out and cleaned up the thread.

The old dampers were not too bad and the front top bearings and mounts were ok but I had new parts. Pete quickly built up the Ohlins, he knew what settings to use to get the ride height and also had spare rubber spring seats that Ohlins don't supply. There are various awkward nuts and bolts etc and Pete knew exactly what sequence to do everything. He also had the special offset angled torque wrench to tighten the eccentric bolts and a home made deep socket to do the inner track rods (apparently Porsche take the rack off!)

They are meticulous, lots of care, all new lock nuts and copious ally grease (they think coppaslip is not a good idea with ally/steel interfaces) so that it will come apart in future if ever required. The whole lot is finally sprayed with Wurth wax, apart from general corrosion preventation, Chris recons this helps preserve the coffin arms by stopping corrosion delaminating the rubber parts.

So how do I want it all set up? Well for me, it's standard mixed road driving, no track days. I was happy with the ride height that I had (worn M030) so we settled on X71 which is very similar. We also decided to stick to the standard Ohlins springs rather than going for the softer 'S class' ride that Steve Bennett of 911&Porsche World went for. With the dampers on 13 clicks (out of 30) from fully hard, the handling is superb and the ride is much improved. All the rattles have gone.

Having done a couple of hundred miles since, I'm delighted, just need to sort out all the trim noises that are more obvious now!

Photos to follow when I get home on Sunday and download from my camera.

Mike
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Mike
2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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iceboy
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 351
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice write up Mike.

My Turbo S is very low mileage and I often wonder whether a trip to CG is worth it, Maybe next year when I have more time on my hands.

You mentioned S-class ride......any more information on this? did you manage to ride in one of the cars with this set-up.

I have an S-class (old low mileage example) and boy do I love the ride...but in the Turbo S....it may be too woolly?!

I'm guessing the dampers are fully adjustable as you mentioned clicks, any more information on this? Can they be done in situ?

IceBoy
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Paynewright
Newbie


Joined: 17 Apr 2018
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was there with Mike on Wednesday with my 996.2 C2 and agree with his comments about Chris and Pete. Their knowledge and expertise is immense, and unlike some vendors are happy to explain everything they’re doing and why - no trade secrets here!!

I too went for a road set up as not planning any track days. The drive home down twisty B roads was a real joy and made me realise how much I was fighting the car previously to make it go where I wanted.

The car arrived with many settings away from where they needed to be as well as disparity between sides. It left with near perfect symmetry and all settings suited to how I plan to use it (which can be different to factory settings)

Overall very pleased with their services and would recommend them highly.

Regards
Ian
 
  
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maldren
Imola


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 818



PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="iceboy"You mentioned S-class ride......any more information on this? did you manage to ride in one of the cars with this set-up.[/quote]

The Ohlins are adjustable form 0 (hard) to 30 (soft). CG told me the Steve wanted the best possible ride due to British roads and they put softer springs all round, there's a series of P911World articles, IIRC the final setup was in the Feb issue but I'm not at home to check.

Although I was keen for a better ride (than on old M030 suspension) Chris and Pete suggested that the supplied Ohlins springs would give me an improved ride while handling like and improved version of the Porsche setup and so it has proved.

As with Ian, CG found all the detailed faults in my car, explained them clearly and then fixed them.They're not cheap but I think they offer excellent value and you can take your car in for an assessment before committing to more expenditure, they really will tell you what needs doing. They've done more than 50 996s so they have lots of experience.

I had everything done because I was spending a lot on the Ohlins and I knew a lot of parts would need replacing at 96k, I thought it would be daft to spend a lot and then find another part failed in the next year or two.
I sourced parts carefully to keep the costs down (Spyder Performance are good for Coffin arms and forked arms).

Mike
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2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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FZP
Watkins Glen


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 2177
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great write up. Customer satisfaction stories are far more interesting than Dodgy Bros stories Thumb
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Jamesx19
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 321
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice thread Mike.

Great feedback as always for CG. The Ohlins appear to be the dampers to have. It would be great to do a back to back comparison between Ohlins / Bilstein / KW coilovers and Koni / Bilstein fixed rate dampers. Road use only.

Having played with the geo settings a bit, I wonder if Geo is the Big difference in handling, or whether the dampers have a bigger effect on the feel of a car?

A vote for Martin at 9excellence by the way. Does a good Geo if you live "daaan sarff" and don't want to go all the way to CG.
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maldren
Imola


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 818



PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a toss up for me between 9E and CG, 9E are my local Indy but CG are the suspension specialist.

I'm not too far from Brighton, drop me a pm if you fancy seeing what the Ohlins are like.

Mike
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Marky911
Albert Park


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 1584



PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice write up Mike.

Glad you're happy with the Ohlins and I'm pleased to see someone sticking with the standard spring rates. We fitted Craig's a few months ago and were slightly worried that a few sources were saying the springs were too firm.

I must admit I thought the rears felt a bit firm when I drove it but Craig is very happy with them. To be fair it hasn't been properly set up yet.

I personally don't think there's much in it between Ohlins and KWV3s. Craig's car drove beautifully on the rebuilt KWs. It really rode bumps well.
The main benefit with the Ohlins is that you can adjust the ride height without altering the spring tension. The KWs can't. So in theory you could end up having the ride heights spot on but the corner weights out, or having to have slightly different ride heights to get the corner weights bang on.

No such issues with the Ohlins. Thumb
 
  
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Dammit
Albert Park


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1559



PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CG swapped my springs as the cabriolet bodyshell isn't as stiff as the coupe - and what they didn't want was the shell itself to become part of the suspension which might be the case if the springs themselves were too stiff.

Which means I've got a set of Ohlins springs, taking up space in the garage if anyone wants them?
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maldren
Imola


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 818



PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've spent today playing on the North Yorks moors. The rear is definitely too stiff, great handling but rather jiggly on broken sufaces.

I'll try softening off a couple of notches on the Ohlins, what settings do others use?

Hi Dammit,
They did have a softer set of springs in house that they had in for Steve Bennett, I possibly should have tried them, I'll see how the dampers go first.
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2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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rob_p
Imola


Joined: 20 Oct 2013
Posts: 865
Location: Leicester


PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had basically the same as you done - ohlins at centre gravity.
Pete initially set mine about half way in terms of stiffness.
In the end i got them set to maximum softness because i wanted the best ride possible on B roads. I am happy with it and no desire to make it stiffer.

I would be surprised if you find this too soft but be interested to hear your comments.
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maldren
Imola


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 818



PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My concern with going fully soft is that the spring is still stiff. the other issue is balance, the front feels ok with the dampers set fairly stiff.

I'll try gradually softening the rear and let you know. If roads were better things woudl be different, it's great on smooth roads!

Perhaps we need to get CG to join a group of us on a setup day!?!?
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2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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DynoMike
Barcelona


Joined: 25 May 2012
Posts: 1416
Location: The Cotswolds

2003 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mike

Great write up! As mentioned by Manic996T, the ohlins seem to soften and run in with miles. The rear on mine feels fairly good at 17 out. The front was too hard at 15, which manifested itself as being 'pumped down' over a series of bumps, so have just softened to 18 to see if it fixes that problem.

The spring rates feel about right to me, not overly firm. My turbo has the stock springs that come with the kit.

I spoke to Matt at Fearnsport who fitted and set mine up wrt the bumpy road behaviour, he basically said that this may end up being the trade off vs stock suspension. I occasionally track mine and the stock suspension was wayyy too soft for track use. The ohlins are just a little too firm for a very bumpy road, but 85% of the time they are perfect. I'm happy with this trade off. I simply can't wait to try them on track sometime food food
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Jamesx19
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 10 Jul 2015
Posts: 321
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Planning to meet up with Mike sometime after August for a comparison with my Bilstein B8 and H&R lowering springs. In theory the Ohlins should be the better compromise (?)
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Dammit
Albert Park


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could join that test - I believe I'm in roughly the same place as you chaps geographically.
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Jamesx19
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 10 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perfect. Mike?

Dammit - have you thought of moving Benchrace2000 into this forum? Its a great fantasy thread!
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Dammit
Albert Park


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I warn you now, I'll sneak that manifold into your car when your back is turned.
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maldren
Imola


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks like 13 is too hard anyway. I'll try 15 or 17 next, the front seems ok, even at 13 but that may change if I alter the rear. Looks like fun ahead.
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2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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DynoMike
Barcelona


Joined: 25 May 2012
Posts: 1416
Location: The Cotswolds

2003 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maldren wrote:
looks like 13 is too hard anyway. I'll try 15 or 17 next, the front seems ok, even at 13 but that may change if I alter the rear. Looks like fun ahead.


Don’t be worried about going softer, have just run 18 front with 17 rear and the car is fantastic. I may go back towards hard by one click or so, but for our atrocious roads this set up delivers.
Ohlins now better than M030 for 96-97% of the time. Turn in is ferocious! Love it!
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Dammit
Albert Park


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For reference I believe I’m on 14 f/r.
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