997 Questions

Robert SausageTrousers · 27 Jun 2018

Hi all, after a disastrous start to 911 ownership and a written off 996, i'm biting the bullet and am actively searching for the right 997.

I just wondered if someone could outline the differences between the earlier and late models, and outline whether there are any year/engines with issues to watch out for etc, or any year/engine that I should be trying to buy in particular? just to try and arm myself with as much info as possible, I got fairly clued up with the 996 before buying one but know next to nothing about the 997 pitfalls.

Also, can someone tell me if the entertainment system that comes as standard in the 997 is bluetooth compatible for phone and spotify? and if not, is it easy to replace the unit with something more modern? my 996 had a touchscreen bluetooth unit in place of the original and it looked great and worked a treat, I'd need both phone and music bluetooth compatibility in whatever car I buy.

T8 · 27 Jun 2018

Have a good read of the 997 sub forum and especially the FAQs. Also, try a combination of words in the 'Search Forum' function.

The questions you've asked have been asked many times before.

For the answer to your which year query have a read of the post linked below.

=> http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=123995&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=later+bearing

Personally if considering a 997 I'd always go for an early Gen2 car over any Gen1. they cost a bit more but it's worth it for the extra peace of mind.

Good Luck :thumb:

MaxA · 27 Jun 2018

You're going to provoke a vigorous debate on the respective merits and demerits of 9971 vs 9972.

You need to decide if you want the 1 with the older more sensitive engine and risk of IMS failure and scored bores, or the 2 with the later, more powerful direct injection engines. The issues with the 9971 were much teh same as the 996 as I understand.

If you're in the market for a manual there's no issue, but I would say there's a significant difference between a Tiptronic and a PDK, if you want auto.

Clearly it will all depend on your budget, appetite for risk (real or perceived), appetite for power, gearbox, and above all, history and condition.

I don't want to get into a spec discussion, but I'd say you need proper sports seats, PSE for noise, the latest PCM possible, and that the Sport Chrono Pack + would be vital on a PDK, less important on a manual.

I can't comment on the PCM in the 1 but the PCM v3 in my 9972 works fine with the phone via Bluetooth and there's an aux-in socket in the centre armrest. I added the latest navigation software (with all of Europe) and it all works very well in my view, even if the she-computer talks to me in American.

easternjets · 27 Jun 2018

The Gen 2 997's have Bluetooth but as for any web based 'apps' you'll need to upgrade to an after market system. The Porsche entertainment systems are a bit clunky, sat nav inevitably needs a £300 upgrade just to recognise a full UK postcode! I tend to use google maps instead.
The Gen 1 system is very basic, no Bluetooth but there is a sim socket to plug into.
My Touareg has a brilliant set up, you can watch DVD's when parked, plug in 2 Sd cards and it has a H/Drive to load music onto, Sat Nav works on full postcode and there are adaptors provided for iPhone and Samsung, why Porsche couldn't do the same is a mystery especially as there cars are double the cost!
As for mechanical issues it depends on the model, early gen 1's, 2005 and before non turbo had ims problems so if your buying make sure they're address, as for the turbo's they are pretty strong cars but obviously need regular maintenance but nothing major, rusty bolts and brackets seem to be the main problems.
Whatever you buy get a pdi done, check over revs and any other gremlins that the ECU will throw up, also check the mileage this can be verified on the ECU check and is straight forward.
As with all cars buy with your eyes and ears and not your heart.
At present 997 prices seem to be softening so you can probably have a haggle and get the price down. I know this as I've just been looking at another car and got a value on my car which was down on what I thought it would be!

resigner · 27 Jun 2018

Read up about these 2 issues. Bore Score, and IMS failure.

IMS is simple, get a car which has either had it replaced, or is after late 2005 (it's actually down to engine number, read the link in the post above for the ranges with old and newer) IMS failure is horrific. It will basically result in a blown engine and a £10,000+ rebuild.

Bore Score is, we think, in about 3% of cars, possibly slightly higher, but is nowhere near as prevalent as most internet non specialist forums (or people with Gen 2 cars

) will tell you. Don't thrash the car until it's properly warmed up (I don't go over 3000rpm until oil temp is moving upwards and usually don't until its up to 90 degrees) and bore score should be avoided. Either buy from a decent dealer (we can tell you which ones!) or get a car PDI inspected and Boroscoped to check for Bore Scoring. Again, if the bores are gone then we in the serious engine rebuild territory. Difference is, there can be some bore scoring, but managed it should never get any worse and can easily not actually be a problem.

You want a well looked after car, high mileage can easily be no problem, and low mileage can cause problems from lack of use.

I suspect from the fact that you had a 996 then you are looking at Gen 1 cars. Gen 2 cars are better from an engine perspective, so stretch if you can.

A manual, nicely spec'd Gen 1 car is an incredible machine. They don't cost the earth to keep on the road and in good condition. A set of tyres (MP4S) will come in around £800 to £900 fitted. Brakes with discs about £1000. They use some oil, so make sure you keep it topped up.

The best bet is a Gen 1 car which has already had an engine rebuild from one of the good engine rebuilds like Hartech (other good engine rebuilders are available) and there are cowboys out there. Again, we can advise, and Baz of Hartech is on here and likes a chat!

Now the stereo. Gen 1 has PCM2.1, and it is totally useless. Upgrading to a newer unit should be done if you like your tech. I am about to do my 2nd upgrade so I get full android auto, DAB, etc. It gives me the ability to have a google button on the stereo, so I can just press it and say "navigate home" with my phone connected and off we go. PCM2.1 doesn't even support an ipod........ You can sell a PCM2.1 for about £350 though, so it's not an expensive upgrade overall. There are plenty of threads about it. Have a look at the Pioneer avh z5000dab. Great unit. I currently have a Pioneer SPH DA120 which is good, but doesnt have DAB or Android Auto, but does have Apple Carplay, so overall is still a good unit if you use Apple.....

Don't be afraid to walk away from a car. It must feel completely right. Any doubt's, don't buy it, there are plenty out there.

Enjoy

rabbitstew · 27 Jun 2018

With regards to the PCM on the gen 1 cars, mine has that. I fitted a mobridge box to it which gave it bluetooth capabilities. As soon as I start the car my phone automatically pairs with it so all the phone works as it should via the car. I can also stream music from my phone through the PCM. This is perfect for me as i use Waze on my phone for all my navigation and only really use the stock PCM for the audio.

Robert SausageTrousers · 27 Jun 2018

Excellent stuff, thank you for the posts so far.

I have a budget of around £25k, looking for a tip, preferably a C4 - what sort of money do the Gen2's start at?

Robert SausageTrousers · 27 Jun 2018

rabbitstew said:
With regards to the PCM on the gen 1 cars, mine has that. I fitted a mobridge box to it which gave it bluetooth capabilities. As soon as I start the car my phone automatically pairs with it so all the phone works as it should via the car. I can also stream music from my phone through the PCM. This is perfect for me as i use Waze on my phone for all my navigation and only really use the stock PCM for the audio.

Excellent, does it allow you to play music through an APP like Spotify, or only music actually stored on your phone?

Counter Of Beans · 27 Jun 2018

Robert ST, I can only offer you my thought process when I bought a 997 a few weeks ago - it is my first Porsche. Put simply, I did not consider gen 1's due to the bore score issue. No-one knows what % of cars are affected, but I knew I couldn't drive around thinking "it's a ticking time bomb". Not least because I used to own a BMW 335i with the infamous N54 engine; never drove it because it's such a fragile engine - or so the interweb told me.
Then there's budget. £25k to £30k will get you a very nice gen1, another £10k puts you in gen2 territory although high mileage cars will be cheaper in both cases. Gen2 starts around 2009 I believe.
If you do find a Hartech rebuilt gen1 make sure it's had the full monty done - expect to see an invoice for over £10k.

Anyway, as Motorhead would say "the chase is better than the catch...."; not quite, perhaps, but it's good fun finding the right car. Good luck!

tom_nieto · 27 Jun 2018

There isn't much point in outlining the differences between the 997.1 and 997.2 without knowing your budget! There is beginning to be a crossover of the .1 and .2 at the mid-high £30k's, but you'd be nuts to spend high £30k's on a 997.1 IMO. A high mileage facelift might also create ownership problems, so you have to know what your budget is and stick to it.

Most would suggest that if you've got the money to buy a half decent 997.2 you should do that and don't look back. If like me you've got nowhere near that money, the 997.1 is a fabulous car and I've really enjoyed mine for the 18 months that I've owned it. There wasn't any prospect of me finding the £10k that I would have needed to buy an equivalent facelift car, so I plumped for a pre-facelift and have enjoyed actually owning a 911! You'll get a slightly more interesting discussion regarding spending your money on a 997.1 Carrera S vs a 997.2 Carrera at the same price, but I think the newer car wins just about every time there too.

Don't get people started on the options list either... TBH if it's got a flat 6 in the boot you're probably going to enjoy owning and driving it

Robert SausageTrousers · 27 Jun 2018

OK, so it'll be the Gen1 if Gen2 came in in 2009, and especially if they start in the £30k bracket, I can budge up to about £28k at a push but really no further than there.

HSC911 · 27 Jun 2018

Robert SausageTrousers said:
OK, so it'll be the Gen1 if Gen2 came in in 2009, and especially if they start in the £30k bracket, I can budge up to about £28k at a push but really no further than there.

Man maths :grin:

Just pull out another £2k and get a Gen 2 :wack:

:thumb:

rabbitstew · 27 Jun 2018

Robert SausageTrousers said:
rabbitstew said:

With regards to the PCM on the gen 1 cars, mine has that. I fitted a mobridge box to it which gave it bluetooth capabilities. As soon as I start the car my phone automatically pairs with it so all the phone works as it should via the car. I can also stream music from my phone through the PCM. This is perfect for me as i use Waze on my phone for all my navigation and only really use the stock PCM for the audio.

Click to expand...

Excellent, does it allow you to play music through an APP like Spotify, or only music actually stored on your phone?

Any music you want. I use Google Music which is similar to Spotify and stream it down through 4G and through the OEM headunit.

Using my phone like this has the advantage that I can be streaming music and when Waze wants to give me a direction it fades the music out whilst the woman is telling me to turn left at the roundabout, then fades music back in.

It also knows what song you were playing last and picks up where you left off when you get back in your car etc..

resigner · 27 Jun 2018

When I got my car it had a dension/connects2 unit which gave an ipod connection. But the PCM2.1 still meant it was terrible. Just awful useability and couldn't handle anywhere near the volume of music I have on my ipod.

Please, don't listen to the scare mongering about Gen 1 Bore Score. We will never know exactly what the percentage is, but the clever money says its close to 3% at the moment. Also, now we know about it, it is manageable. If you are going to worry about it going boom, a 911 is not for you. Or, get a warranty from either Porsche (cars up to 15 years old) or warranty direct (or is it wise?) some of them are useless though, like RAC and AA!

Great Cars. Whereabouts are you?

BenB91 · 27 Jun 2018

I too started off with a budget of around 25k and was very close to buying a Gen1 Carrera S manual. In the end, the risks were too high for me and I "found" another £8k to buy a 2008 Gen 2 Carrera PDK with 66k miles.

I've owned the car for 6 weeks now and have no regrets.

997 Questions

Robert SausageTrousers

Nurburgring

T8

Super Moderator

MaxA

Magny-Cours

easternjets

Paul Ricard

resigner

Barcelona

rabbitstew

Imola

Robert SausageTrousers

Nurburgring

Robert SausageTrousers

Nurburgring

Counter Of Beans

Hockenheim

tom_nieto

Montreal

Robert SausageTrousers

Nurburgring

HSC911

Sebring

rabbitstew

Imola

resigner

Barcelona

BenB91

Nurburgring

Similar threads

Latest posts

New Threads

Porsche Model Range

Porsche 911

Porsche Hypercars

Other Current Porsche Model

Porsche Legacy Models

Forum statistics