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High mileage engines

maldren

Well-known member
Joined
7 Oct 2016
Messages
1,741
Baz has argued that 996 engines wear out like any other engine and need rebuilding from time to time. He sees a lot of them and has far more experience here that the rest of us as well as deep tech knowledge.

His view is that engines probably need a rebuild at about 100k and a lot of us are around that point. I, like several others, acknowledge that the suspension needs a refresh at a similar mileage and I'm putting a lot of time and money into that now. The trouble with the engine is that, unless they go bang, they still run very well at 100k.

Apart from PPBB's car, is anyone here running on much higher mileages than 100k without a rebuild?

Mike
 
Coincidence I just mentioned in the 997 section ,That I think we will start to see cars going for a hartech rebuild even if they dont actually need it yet as owners will want to have bulletproof cars to enjoy. and as the cost of a rebuild is only the same as most other marques lose in depreciation over 4/5 yrs which the 996/997s dont it makes sence . especially this will be the case with the higher mileage cheaper cars . I can see the maths working on a 997 eg buy a high mller for 17/18k rebuild 10k and worth more or less the 27/28k spend but do those maths work on the 996 eg buy for 12k spend 10k worth 22k :?: :dont know:
 
143k, running thicker oil now, but recent service revealed no issues.

car has other issues of course, mostly electrical :lol: :lol:
 
maldren said:
Baz has argued that 996 engines wear out like any other engine and need rebuilding from time to time. He sees a lot of them and has far more experience here that the rest of us as well as deep tech knowledge.

His view is that engines probably need a rebuild at about 100k and a lot of us are around that point. I, like several others, acknowledge that the suspension needs a refresh at a similar mileage and I'm putting a lot of time and money into that now. The trouble with the engine is that, unless they go bang, they still run very well at 100k.

Apart from PPBB's car, is anyone here running on much higher mileages than 100k without a rebuild?

Mike

This is a good question Mike and look forward to the answers, but I don't think that Baz actually said the engine 'needs' a rebuild, but said this a good mileage point at which to carry out a 'pre-emptive' rebuild. Many people will carry on running their engine past 100k.

The point is that a rebuild around the 100k point will be the most cost effective way of ensuring your engine runs into the future. Running past this point, and most will run successfully past this point, 'begins' to wear some of the high cost (Crank) and structural components of the engine. Replacing a crank that has worn through its hardening will be a costly and as time goes by, more difficult (availability) thing to do. I believe the car will continue to run past 100k well enough, but you are simply storing up a much larger bill in the future while increasing the risk of crank and other component failure.

:thumb:
 
Phil 997 said:
Coincidence I just mentioned in the 997 section ,That I think we will start to see cars going for a hartech rebuild even if they dont actually need it yet as owners will want to have bulletproof cars to enjoy. and as the cost of a rebuild is only the same as most other marques lose in depreciation over 4/5 yrs which the 996/997s dont it makes sence . especially this will be the case with the higher mileage cheaper cars . I can see the maths working on a 997 eg buy a high mller for 17/18k rebuild 10k and worth more or less the 27/28k spend but do those maths work on the 996 eg buy for 12k spend 10k worth 22k :?: :dont know:

This is the boat I'm in

Have a 2001 3.4 which cost me £12k, in good nick but 109k on the clock. Just had a major service at Northway with no major issues reported, and and just got me to Le Mans and back without missing a beat

If a full rebuild (I would either use Northway or Hartech) costs say £11kish, and the car is a long term keeper, which is currently my plan, then this outlay seems acceptable to give the car a much longer life when I'm ready to do it.

After all it was no doubt over £60k when new and we all know how much a new Merc or BMW will depreciate from new over 3 years. I can justify it when the time comes (though will need to do justify the man maths to SWMBO!)

The dilemma I have is to do a pre-emptive rebuild (and include items such as crank bearings etc, having spoken to Hartech) or wait for a possible major failure which will no doubt cost more to fix (but may never happen?)
 
There was a massive thread looking at this end of last year.

Just get your oil analysed everytime its changed and check the filter. That way you can try and pre-empt any serious wear before it happens (crank etc) by seeing wear metals steadily increasing or increasing exponentially.

Until that happens Im just going to use and enjoy.
 
My '00 996 is on 169k.

It has FSH (last 10/120k years at Indy's), it uses no oil between services and still pulls really well. I had the bores scoped 15 months ago, and they were clean.
 
Obviously I've already made my views clear on this before. :grin:

I will NEVER, EVER, take a perfectly good running car off the road for weeks or months, to spend almost the value of the car again, on having the engine rebuilt.

I like my 996 and have zero plans to sell it unless I come into an £80k budget for a replacement anytime soon, but at the same time do I like it enough to say I categorically will never part with it? Unfortunately not. I'll be back in a GT3 or something aircooled when the funds become available again.

So I think it depends on your ownership plans.
My car is on 75k miles. If I do 3k-5k per year, I have ten years use before I hit 105k-125k. If I get to that without a rebuild then happy days.
I'll know by then what my long term plans are with the car.

I've posted this one before. My Indy has looked after it for years. Run on an absolute shoestring yet still on original everything.







As I also said at the time, imagine the owner had coughed up for a preemptive rebuild at 100k. He'd have sold himself short by 73k.
This was a year ago so probably past 180k now.

The preemptive rebuild is another example of forum hysteria, for people with more money than sense. Rebuilding healthy engines "just incase" ??
Lunacy. :frustrated:
These cars aren't rare or special. Nice, yes, but nothing special. I'll save my funds and make some amazing experiences/memories on holidays and other aspects of life.

All just my 2p though. :thumb:
 
My '98 3.4 is on near 140k it's getting ready for a couple of coil packs again but the only major work it's had was a clutch and flywheel at 85k
 
Marky911 said:
The preemptive rebuild is another example of forum hysteria, for people with more money than sense. Rebuilding healthy engines "just incase" ??
Lunacy. :frustrated:

These cars aren't rare or special. Nice, yes, but nothing special. I'll save my funds and make some amazing experiences/memories on holidays and other aspects of life.

All just my 2p though. :thumb:

Agree completely.

Unless 996 suddenly double in value, I'll run mine until it goes pop, then I'll either source a 2nd hand engine, or stick a £5k +vat rebuild in it. Cannot see the point in spending £10-12k on a 20 year old car when you could simply buy another one for not much more than that.
 
coullstar said:
There was a massive thread looking at this end of last year.

Just get your oil analysed everytime its changed and check the filter. That way you can try and pre-empt any serious wear before it happens (crank etc) by seeing wear metals steadily increasing or increasing exponentially.

Until that happens Im just going to use and enjoy.

Hi Coulstar,
Yes I saw that thread. What I'm trying to quantify is how many high mileage engines there are out there. Baz sees those that don't make it but I'm interested in how many he doesn't see - rather like Alex's thread on IMS issues.

There are a lot of us around 100k on this forum, I'm interested in those who have done rather more miles......
 
Can I just make the point that it really makes little difference to me if we repair an engine that has a crankshaft that is still reusable or have to charge the customer more because his failed - our information is only based on the failures we see and those all show wear at around 100K and many failing at a similar mileage. We have also had engines fail at lower than 20K and some to rebuild that have covered 150K (but crank still OK).

This is the main reason we have developed the larger engine alternatives - since it provides an incentive to those that might like a rebuilt engine, peace of mind and improved performance.


The crankshafts have very little case hardening depth so minute differences in tolerances between the crank journals, shells and rod eye's can make a big difference in how long they last, as does the oil used and mainly the way they are driven.


What we are saying is - if you have a keeper - and you can afford to have it rebuilt - and you like the idea of a reliable engine for many years ahead and don't want to have to nurse the engine for fear it may pack up - then perhaps a preemptive rebuild makes sense around 100K and while you are about it how about a performance increase (something many owners spend thousands on for a few measly bhp or prettier wheels or spoilers etc).

Those of you that seem really offended by this suggestion as to appear angry in your replies simply ignore it and carry on driving your cars. Some of you will get away with it - some of you will not - but none of you will have a rebuilt engine with imporved performance - we all have choices to make and we have no axe to grind.


However I think it would be wrong of us to keep quiet about what we find and our conclusions - they are just opinions like everyone is entitled to but there is one slight difference - ours are based on actual experience repairing hundreds of engines whereas some others are based on hope and never having had to shell out for a repair.


Information is always beneficial - and what you do about it is entirely your choice but ignorance is never a better position to be in.

We rae going to be flat out fixing failed engines anyway - for many years to come - and just wanted to offer some small incentive to those on the brink of having a preemptive rebuild (because they want to and can afford it) and never expected our information to influence those dead against the principle or cannot afford it anwyay!

Baz
 
I can understand pumping £10k into an otherwise unusable car if the engine had died and you intended to keep it as you'll lose at least say two thirds of that selling it as a non runner, you'd also get the benefit of the fresh engine and increased resale value etc.

What I would be more considerate of is if you had a perfectly running but say 100k miler 996 worth say £10-12k or whatever, unless it had just been fully restored in all respects you'd then be £20k+ into a 100k miler with the usual worn suspension bits, tired interior and paintwork etc. If you then spent a few £k more on improving the rest of the car (and you'd probably want to if you'd spent that much on the engine!) you'd soon be up to £30k+ before you know it. That opens up a lot more choice in cars than a 996 Carrera, and I doubt most people who buy a £10-12k base car intend to spend that much?

No disrespect to the guy, it's a personal car that is clearly loved 8) but the guy on here with the early C2 cabriolet has said it owes him £40k or something now and AFAIK that doesn't include an engine rebuild! :eek:

How much are 997.2s nowadays? :?:
 
Nice reply Baz and I had forgotted about the bigger engine option certainly for the 996 and hopefully a 4ltr option for the 997.1 and .2 mmmm wonder what the BHP would be of a 997.2 4ltr Hartech engined car. I must have spent half the cost of a rebuild on bolt on power bits to achieve less than a 4ltr Hartech option would give me. Now thats food for thought for those of us not looking at a broken engine but that are chasing power but dont have the budget for a GT car. :grin: :grin: :thumb:
 
I'm sure everyone will agree it's very valuable information and helps people make up which way they wish to go so everyone is glad of the contribution you guys have.

Better to be informed than make a decision based on no facts. It all comes down to how much we love our cars, how long we intend on keeping them and what the value is IMO.
 

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