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tyinsky
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 354
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:36 pm    Post subject: 150k looks like this Reply with quote

Was still running well. Interesting what it looks like when opened up Very Happy
 



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Endoman
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 1033
Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Difficult to see any major problems. Apart from the broken stud. What's the diagnosis?
Perhaps some light bore scoring and valve guide wear?
I've been checking out the HeadShop in Warringtom who K-line the guides which I'd never heard of. They seem to do a good job for very reasonable prices. 9m use them and I saw some heads done for Kev at Coppull.
I love rebuild stuff so keep us posted.
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Porsche 944 S2 Coupe Guards Red
Porsche 993 Coupe 9m RS Replica
 
  
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tyinsky
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 354
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Car was leaking from all the commonly known places including the bolts. Also had heavy leak down on #5 which is the one you can see close up with the burnt seat. 3.8 going in Very Happy
 
  
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Endoman
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 1033
Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Green Terribly envious. Who's doing the rebuild? Just top end +P&C's?
When my ticket comes up I'll be doing the same.
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kurlykris
Watkins Glen


Joined: 30 Jun 2014
Posts: 2101
Location: Warwickshire


PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow the bores look good for that mileage, you can still see the original honing criss cross pattern Grin
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Cameltoe & Heel
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1091
Location: Preston - Lancs


PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyinsky, it would be good to understand how you're planning your 3.8 and what options you've considered. So you need new pistons and liners?, or do you need complete barrels?.

I'm guessing the old con rods will suffice?, are you going bigger valves?, are you trying to emulate an RS unit here?, this is a really interesting topic.

I suspect the 3.8 upgrade will be a significant premium over just rebuilding to 3.6?, would be good to share indicative costs Smile.

Also be good if you managed to get a parts list too.

Any plans for the gearbox?, are you going RS clutch?.

Trev
 
  
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Endoman
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 1033
Location: Bolton U.K.


PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FVD show all the 3.8 options for 964 and 993. Slip in, machine in. Mahle are the ones to go for and std 993 rods can be used, though they recommend Carillo. If I ever do this it will be slip ins with std rods to keep the cost down and I won't be caning it. The hone marks visible are where the rings don't touch at the bottom of the stroke but I have seen 3.2 barrels that have done 200k with hone marks further up. The single plug headed cars suffer from severe ring wear on the thrust face after high milage something twin plug heads don't suffer from. A 964 engine I have just seen rebuilt just had new rings and head refurb, K-line guides and seats recut a relatively inexpensive rebuild good for another 100k.
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tyinsky
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 354
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will share more once the spec is firmed up. Looking to build a reliable, easy to drive car for using on road trips. I’ve always thought it was a little lacking in terms of how fast it feels So maybe the 3.8 will fix that. Dont know
 
  
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asterix_the_gaul
Suzuka


Joined: 20 Dec 2008
Posts: 1002
Location: Cheshire

1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you have the original map on the original engine? A remap is a real winner on the 993 engine, I was really underwhelmed with the performance when I first got mine, remap fixed all that.
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1992 944 S2 Cabriolet, Cobalt Blue/Classic grey -gone!
1995 993 C2 Cabriolet, Midnight Blue/Marble grey -gone!
1999 996 C2 Coupe, Ocean Blue/Graphite grey
2002 E46 M3 Cabriolet, Laguna seca blue/LSB
 
  
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tyinsky
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 354
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayne remapped it last year and recovered some missing BHP caused by the throttle cable being seated badly and added a bit too. Over 40BHP in total. Looking for torque on this latest mission Smile
 
  
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ras62
Montreal


Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Posts: 598
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going to 3.8 will give a useful rise in midrange torque but no real rise in peak power. Tbh its a very expensive upgrade for what it gives, especially if the original barrels and pistons are still servicable. I have just rebuilt my 964 at U11 and was shocked at just how much torque and power the motor produces with a few mods.
 
  
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tyinsky
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 354
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a nice build Ras. Have you got a thread on it?

I’m not looking for big power gains, and certainly don’t want a car that is not happy at low revs. Torque in the mid range where I will be using it on the road is ideal.

Motivation for the 3.8 comes from me needing to stop oil leaks, discovering leakdown that points to a top end, and not wanting to do a half job - if I’m going that far may as well do the whole thing.



Grin
 
  
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ras62
Montreal


Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Posts: 598
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't do a build thread, too lazy tbh Confused

All these engines leak as the miles and year go by. Like yourself I made the decision to rebuild even though the car was running well but there were known issues like exhaust guid wear that are a given and that I wanted to sort. Its the unknown wear items that can cause costs to escalate, but thankfully nothing too major in my case.

Both cams on my motor showed pitting on a couple of lobes, the corresponding rockers also needed replacing. I'm guesing but maybe the wear was due to the new oils not having high enough zddp levels, so in future I will use an additive to be on the safe side. I dont think the 993 suffers this issue as badly given the hydraulic lifters and cam profiles used.

Little ends were also replaced but the bottom end was perfect, but chains and guides, bearings etc were changed regardless. Alloy sealing washers and hard rubber hoses were replaced, likewise inlet stacks as some had cracked. Uprated valve springs and retainers for good measure.

The 3.8 conversion will certainly give a midrange lift, so would a varioram but both are expensive. The torque of my new engine really took us by surprise tbh (cam profile chosen hadn't been tried before by U11) although the very low rev running had to be addressed by Wayne post rebuild. It pulled over 280 at the wheels and it certainly feels strong.

I hope you enjoy the rebuild, are you hands on or having it done at an indy?
 
  
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tyinsky
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 354
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info Ras.

A carefully chosen specialist is doing it. Although if I had the skills, tool and time I would have loved to have done it.

Have just got to decide on whether to use the standard cams which are fine, or to change them for some that add some more power. Dont know
 
  
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ras62
Montreal


Joined: 20 Jan 2012
Posts: 598
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hydraulic tappets limit how aggressive the cams can be but saying this I think modern techniques and computing power have opened up options which can improve on most standard cams. Im sure there are options out there that would surpass the torque and power gains offered by a 3.8 conversion and for far less money.
You have obviously given a lot thought to your builder, but it's worth checking that new head studs will be used and through bolt seals are changed as part of the build.
 
  
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