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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1916



PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halcyon wrote:
eabeukes wrote:
Halcyon - did you cut the speaker harness or buy an adapter?


Installed a new speaker loom. Necessitated by the common ground system used by Porsche. But spliced back into the original loom, post the amp in the frunk as that's all "normal" wiring.


Coming back to this again, is what you are talking about represented on this diagram in the section between the radio and the amp, where on the left hand of the connecting wires we see one ground being used to create four?


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Last edited by Dammit on Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
 
  
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6359
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the top left of the amplifier you will see that there are four connections, RR-, RL-, FR- and FL-. These are the four - outputs from the amplifier. As stated they all connect together at ground point 157, and to the - connection on the stereo.
I suspect that these are the inputs to the amplifier, connectes this way as the stereo has a common ground. Are you changing the stereo for one which doesn't have a common ground on the speaker outputs?
It looks to me that the outputs are at the bottom of the diagram. How are these wired?

MC
 
  
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1916



PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I called JL Audio this morning, as I was going round in circles on this.

Q - Will signal quality suffer if the line-out signals share a common ground?
A - No

Q - Is it better to use line-out or speaker-out?
A - Speaker out for preference as the higher input voltage is better for the amp

Q - Any caveats?
A - Maximum input voltage on the speaker-in for the JL amp is 8v, so if the speaker-out is above that, no-go
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to stick with line-out as:

a) They're already there
b) The Becker is 4x18w RMS, which (a friend informs me) is 8.49v

Which means that what I need to do, I believe, is build a small harness that goes from the plugs on the factory wiring in the boot to the amp.
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So this happened:


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maldren
Österreich


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 941



PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

looks like you need a bigger car...... Floor
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2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1916



PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is quite heavy, but I have a separate project that should take care of power-to-weight concerns.

This unit was discounted quite heavily - pretty close to the cost of two of the pioneer units recommended earlier, and I think that using a single unit has to be more efficient.

It is, of course, massively over-specified for my application, but that's part of the fun.

I've ordered an old Nokia amp from a breaker, I'll pull the connectors out of that and will create a harness that runs from the chassis wiring, via the new connectors to the amp, so no new cables (hopefully!) required, and no cutting/messing around with the existing cables.

I'll end up with the 600/6v2 running 4 Hertz DCX 100.3's and two Hertz 130.5's, I'll take stock at that point and work out if I think the system needs a sub.

Means I need to pull the door cards off and work out how to mount the 130.5's where the 2 ohm Nokia woofers are.
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Halcyon
Imola


Joined: 02 Nov 2015
Posts: 777
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dammit wrote:

Q - Is it better to use line-out or speaker-out?
A - Speaker out for preference as the higher input voltage is better for the amp


wow! Lot's has happened! I turn my back for two minutes and now look what you've done!! Hand

First off, that answer from JBL is inaccurate! Speaker level inputs will have added inherent distortion from the head-unit's own amp. if you like your music with added 5% THD then you probably like very heavy metal! Razz

Anyhoo!!

Common Ground:
The reason i didn't use a common ground is because:
I lost fader & balance. Simple as that!
After checking my Pioneer manual, it does actually say about not using common ground, so I didn't.
Your mileage may differ in your installation.

Keeping the socket:
I did consider this: but after much thought, I decided to cut the wires.
One: the amp-side socket - once you remove that from the amp, you have no shroud, no cable management - so nothing to secure the cables and make them look tidy.
Two: Do you need to disconnect / reconnect the speaker wires? If you don't (and you don't! lol) Then you're better off cutting, extending, soldering, heat-wrapping etc to the new amp location. If you must have a connector - use a SCART male & female connector. That'll give you the cable management & neatness as well as having plenty of capacity, pin-wise.

Door speakers:
The OEM ones are actually pretty good quality and they are retained in my set up. BUT - i use them as bass / woofers, NOT subs.
Because once you get them down to sub levels, your door and everything around it will buzz and rattle and drive you insane!! The speakers can get low and dirty, but their environment can't.. at least, in my experience.
You'll need to do some cutting to get the larger Hertz into the doors (Door card removal is pretty straight forward)
This is what the enclosure looks like:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ak7OTAfmTrHxxEhFAVgg9ARV6sML
(I can't post images.. rubbish, i know)
And this is the back of the speaker - it has a substantial magnet
https://1drv.ms/u/s!Ak7OTAfmTrHxxEDgTIeKAaY_m9rF
Either way, the Hertz will be better quality as "Speakers" but the aren't subs, so don't drive then as subs Smile

How / where are you going to fit that new amp?
worship
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1916



PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm intending on putting the amp where the CD player used to be as it's roughly the same size. I was going to re-purpose the CD player bracket.

The door speakers I was going to drive as woofers rather than subs, as that is what they are designed for - I don't want to shake the doors off as you say.
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Halcyon
Imola


Joined: 02 Nov 2015
Posts: 777
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I keep an oil container in that space - but it would be perfect for the amp.

How are you going to drive the door speakers from the amp? As in, what channel are you going to use? Front, rear or sub?

you could use the line-out rear for the doors and use the amp's EQ to only put out lower frequencies, then use the speaker level input on channels 5 & 6 to drive the actual rear speakers?

Or another way entirely? Question
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1916



PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that's a good question.

There are six inputs on the amp, and obviously six outputs.

I had assumed that I'd be able to use four inputs (which is what I have, discounting the sub) to drive the six channels. The existing system does this.

I was going to set the channels for the doors to be low frequency and the channels for the front and rear speakers to be higher frequency.

Re-examining this, I may not be able to do this, of course- if amp requires a more one-in/one-out approach.

Time to read the manual!
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1916



PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"If you wish to feed all six channels by using
only four channels of input, set the “Input
Mode” switch in the to “4 Ch.” and use only
the inputs to channels 1, 2, 3 & 4. In this mode,
channels 5 & 6 will operate with a sum of the 1 &
3 and 2 & 4 input signals, respectively"

So channels 5&6 would be the woofers, I'd say.
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Halcyon
Imola


Joined: 02 Nov 2015
Posts: 777
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's brilliant! The amp will do all the hard work for you!
You can adjust the amp EQ to suit on channels 5 & 6

How much was it? I can only find it for quite a bit more than a pair of those Pioneers! Dont know
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1916



PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, having checked it looks like I was lying to myself- those Pioneers are £85: https://www.caraudiocentre.co.uk/product_m-pioneer-gm-d1004_p-32858.htm

I paid £385 for the JL, so more accurately 4.5 of those Pioneer amps.

In my defence I'd got a figure of £150 per unit in my head, which is clearly not true now that I come to look.
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Halcyon
Imola


Joined: 02 Nov 2015
Posts: 777
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perfect example of man-maths Floor

But the JL is vastly superior, and was still a bargain Thumb
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1916



PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1916



PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the back of the plug in the scrap amp I bought, I'm debating whether to cut through the PCB to leave a narrow strip with the plugs on and solder onto the pads on the reverse, or cut the pins from the board and bend them up, then attach the wires too them - unsure whether crimping or soldering would be better here, as I'm hugely ignorant in these matters.
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Dammit
Kyalami


Joined: 23 Sep 2016
Posts: 1916



PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's the small connector: https://uk.farnell.com/amp-te-connectivity/1-963539-1/rectangular-conn-hdr-r-a-18pos/dp/2575729

Unfortunately I could not find a connector-to-cable version, but I can solder onto the pins I think, once I bend them up.

The Porsche amp shares the same plug as the Logic 7/Harmonn Kardon systems used in a large number of BMW's, which means (I hope!) that I can use this harness, designed to replace the factory amp in a BMW: https://technicpnp.com/product/logic7hkepsindividual-audiobang-olufsenbowers-wilkins-most-oem-amp-replacement-hardware-kit-for-most-converter-applications/

I thought I'd get these as, being new to these things, I'd likely melt the connectors on the board, now that doesn't matter.
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Dammit
Kyalami


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Posts: 1916



PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what I think is in the small plug:

Pin 2 Rear Right -, Brown/blue (0.35mm2)
Pin 10 Rear Right +, Red/black (0.35mm2)
Pin 3 Rear Left -, Brown/yellow (0.35mm2)
Pin 11 Rear Left +, Yellow/red (0.35mm2)
Pin 4 Front Right -,Brown/violet (0.35mm2)
Pin 12 Front Right +,Violet/red (0.35mm2)
Pin 5 Front Left -, Brown/green (0.35mm2)
Pin 13 Front Left+, Green/Red (0.35mm2)
Pin 16Speed signal, Green/pink (0.35mm2)
Pin 15 Tel-mute, Yellow/black (0.35mm2)
Pin 7 12v+ switched, Black/red (0.5mm2)
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Halcyon
Imola


Joined: 02 Nov 2015
Posts: 777
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How are you getting on with the connectors? Much chin scratching and questioning the worthiness of the amount of faff involved? Very Happy
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