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Chrali
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Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Posts: 53
Location: Norfolk


PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:05 pm    Post subject: 2006 Cayenne Turbo S issues and with Trader Reply with quote

Well thought I'd test the waters and tell the trader I bought my Cayenne from that I've had enough and he needs to fix it, pay for Porsche to fix it, or give me my money back.

He called me back and refused point blank! Said my warranty was for £250 only, not even per claim.

Pushing him a bit I said the TPMS sensors didn't work, he said it wasn't in the ad so he's not responsible for resolving the fault. I admit bursting out laughing. On the other hand the ad didn't mention it having an engine and he doesn't want to be responsible for resolving that, so at least he's being consistent

He said its a limited warranty else he'd go bankrupt tearing down engines. Oh that's ok, I'll just go bankrupt instead shall I Mad

He said it was fine when he sold it and doesn't know how it was treat since, despite me emailing him the faults the very 1st time I drove it.

He also said its a 12 year old car and you've got to expect to put money into it. I'd agree with that with regards to servicing, but basic running issues causing the transmission to fault? Nope, nope, nope.

Nearly lost my temper when he had the temerity to say to me more than once that 'we going to have a problem', nor did he feel that the Sale of Goods Act was of any relevance. Wall

Not sure the legality of his position, but lets just say I expected this response from him.

He did say he'd pay the £250 if "I made it clear it was in full and final settlement".

Yeah I'll bet.

Tbh I don't think there's anything terminal, but that's not really the point is it?

Ok rant over
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

who's the trader Question
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ragpicker
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Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 3913
Location: North East England


PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who is it?

What are the faults you're claiming for?

What year and model is the cayenne?

Whilst it was a nice rant some more info would be grand...

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Chrali
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Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Posts: 53
Location: Norfolk


PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its the 06 Cayenne Turbo S that's in my signature Very Happy

Primary faults are the gearbox dropping into limp home and the camshaft position timing over advanced causing the engine management light to come on.

So I can't drive it far and I cant drive it hard - Not very Porsche like is it

Dont know

I'll go back to him today and see if I can negotiate with him , but he does now have 2 or 3 other Cayennes for sale for a lot less than I paid for mine, so you can imagine the quality after care there!

The trader is in postcode area SG11.
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alex yates
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Joined: 06 Mar 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At a guess: http://www.xsautos.co.uk/
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str12
Silverstone


Joined: 04 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:52 am    Post subject: Solution Reply with quote

Get a lawyer to write him a letter.
 
  
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SD99
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Joined: 27 May 2018
Posts: 22



PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you had a quote for the work? Could be useful and then you might be able to reach a middle ground with settling the bill.

Did you get a copy of the warranty offered on the car and is the £250 max payout correct?
 
  
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Phil 997
Le Mans
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Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 15053
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How long have you had the car mate as that should dictate anything in statutory law that you can bring to the party, or if you need to keep the ass on side as best you can. Dont get any work done until you have resolved this as he then has clear wiggle room Thumb
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deMort
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Joined: 21 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chrali wrote:


the camshaft position timing over advanced causing the engine management light to come on.



Erm .. thats a new one ?? or did i miss it ?

It wasnt on the list of fault codes i last looked at and its a pretty big one ..

You need an actual value for the cam shaft deviation .. it needs to be above 12 degrees for it to flag a fault from memory and that will be on bank 2 which is the furthest away from the crank on rotation .

Its due to a stretched timing chain .. car will still run but its pretty much at the adaption limits hence a fault code .

Although to be fair .. the vario cam movement is +25 / -25 degrees so it still has room to work.
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easternjets
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Joined: 29 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have more rights than he does and as a Trader he has certain obligations which he seems to be unaware of.
Take it to an OPC for a full health check, if you haven't lost the will to live when you get the report then do the following;
First port of call Trading Standards then Small Claims Court which he will inevitably fail to to turn up at.
After you get the Health Check done and if it's as bad as you allude to then list everything with a copy of the report, write him a nice letter asking for all items to be rectified in 10 working days, if he ignores/refuses then straight to court.
Secret here is be proactive, don't sit on it for a day longer than you have to.
The courts won't swallow the old chestnut 'it was fine when it left here'.
Good luck, tomorrows Monday so crack on.
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T8
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Joined: 29 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to be the bearer of possibly bad news but reading back at everything you've had done/checked with the car since you bought it your case may be severely compromised.

eg => http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=127605&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

The onus is on the supplying dealer to sort these problems out but you must give them the first opportunity to do so. As soon as you try to sort things yourself or go elsewhere ........... nooo
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Roro
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Joined: 01 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you paid any part of the purchase on a credit card (has to be over £100 and under £30k from memory) then you should investigate doing a S75 claim against the retailer via your credit card company. There’s a bit of paperwork and evidence to get together, but ultimately the credit card company becomes jointly liable with the retailer. If you win via the credit card company they will pay your claim and then pursue the retailer via the courts to get their money back. You need to prove there was a misrepresentation or breach of contract, can’t remember all the details, suggest you google it Thumb
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Chrali
Trainee


Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Posts: 53
Location: Norfolk


PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for replies and advice chaps, I really appreciate it, so in order : -

alexyates Salut

str12 may do this, but I've already said that I take him to small claims court, report to trading standards etc

sd99 the trans problem most likely going to be an air leak somewhere, but it would need to go to someone used to Cayennes, and the guy I used in Norfolk isn't. So no quote as we're not sure of the problem yet. He was adamant that £250 is all he'd cover. He'd neglected to provide me any warranty details; heck I had to chase for weeks to get the invoice, but I expected the usual quoted 3 months.

phil997 just had it for over a month, but reported the actual DTC faults the same day it was delivered to me, he agreed to me taking it to a local specialist.

deMort Not a new new fault, its the P0011 (which is bank 1) is one of the codes I reported, but its come up twice and only when I go to red line past 6k revs then crawl through town. There are no odd noises and performance seems absolutely fine. Was hoping its a solenoid, or adjuster problem. Does it still seem like timing chain stretch given its bank 1, this code and occasional instance?

easternjets Being in Norfolk limits options, I'll look into it. I've already said that I will take him to small claims court, report to trading standards etc. I see the maximum for small claims is now up from 5 to 10K.

T8 hope not, i'd notified faults same day and he agreed with me taking it to a local specialist for diagnosis, but £250 was all he was ever going to pay out. I also notified him that work done had no affect on the codes. Further more engine and/or transmission services were due, and not maintaining the vehicle would usually be a reason to void any warranty.

Roro ballsed that one up I'm afraid and didn't use my credit card; which I usually do Wall

I'm tempted to replace the common vacuum leak suspects Y intake piece, and easily accessible corrugated hoses etc and then if still not sorted then send to specialist and claim to fix, but it sounds like you're suggesting I reject the car (may be too late for that though.)
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Phil 997
Le Mans
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Joined: 05 Dec 2015
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2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If yu have only had it 1 month and reported faults same day and notified and he agreed to any think you have done in trying to rectify the issues I think you have a good case to pursue him . but as suggested by someelse don't hang about take action next week . Thumb
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Chrali
Trainee


Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Posts: 53
Location: Norfolk


PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regards to timing, I've grabbed some live streaming data from iCarsoft whilst the car was idling. If this means anything to anyone. Of course I don't know if these are normal at 120k miles.

MAF = 15.4 kg/h
Adaption of camshaft exhaust side = 302
Camshaft specified angle bank 1 = 16.5 degrees
Camshaft actual angle bank 1 = -0.5 degrees
Intake camshaft deviation = -0.4 degrees to -4.0 (engine restarted)
Camshaft specified angle bank 2 = 16.5 degrees
Camshaft actual angle bank 2 = -0.5 degrees
Output camshaft deviation = -0.2 degrees to -2.0 (engine restarted)
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Last edited by Chrali on Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3782



PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It appears that you are in blurred legal area on reading the trail and T8's timely link to your earlier post trying to resolve repairs yourself. I suspect T8 is correct in that you may have compromised your chances in attempting resolution yourself.

The dealer does not appear to be wanting any involvement.

The best course I can recommend is that you see a solicitor ASAP, explain everything, including the repairs you have attempted yourself, your buying process (the ad, any reports on the car such as HPI and the dealers inspection), the warranty paperwork and anything that you have not disclosed on this forum. Then let the solicitor advise you on options and how to move forward.

I'm no lawyer so I cannot advise you. I don't know if the other contributors are legally qualified, but it seems you will require qualified, professional legal advice to know your options and how to move forward.

Let us know how you get on and how you resolve it.
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deMort
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its not a stretched chain and might be fixed with an oil change or a thinner oil .. perhaps 0/40 mobil 1 .

I tryed to find some info on it to help explain .. Porsche stuff is rubbish for things like this .. try reading this .

https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/p0011-obd-ii-trouble-code-camshaft-position-a-timing-over-advanced-or-system-performance-bank-1-by-jay-safford

maf is pretty much what i would expect from a warm engine .
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Chrali
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Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Posts: 53
Location: Norfolk


PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks deMort - thats put my mind at ease on that issue.
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Chrali
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Joined: 25 Apr 2018
Posts: 53
Location: Norfolk


PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:03 am    Post subject: Email sent quoting "The Consumer Rights Act 2015" Reply with quote

I've now sent the dealer an email stating that the vehicle is unfit for purpose using a standard template from the Which website which quotes The Consumer Rights Act 2015.

As I've not invoked this inside of 30 days I cannot reject the vehicle directly; according to my research, but as I can seek to recover up to 100% of the purchase price it doesn't appear to be an issue, as I would like it fixed.

I have to wait 14 days from today before I can progress to the Consumer Ombudsman; assuming no progress from the dealer.

I've also sent an email to my (not very) local Porsche dealer asking if they would undertake investigations into the running faults. I would expect i'd be charged for 1 or 2 hours of labour to understand what the costs are.
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cheshire911
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Ombudsman service is a complete sham in my experience. I used the financial ombudsman for mis-selling endowment policies to repay a mortgage and the legal ombudsman for a shambolic law firm against whom I filed a complaint, went through their complaints procedure (as required by the legal ombudsman), they upheld in their favour and did no wrong then I took it to the ombudsman. The I had to fill-in reams and reams of paperwork and supporting evidence, faced telephone interviews with their investigator, who ruled in favour of the law firm. I did not accept that judgement and escalated it to be reviewed by a "real" ombudsman (the initial review is done by a satellite team of non-legally qualified investigators) and the real ombudsman ruled in favour of the non-legally qualified investigator. I declined to accept that judgement and placed on record that I declined. The whole process took over 10 months! That was the end of the Ombudsman journey. If I was still unhappy, I'd have to file a civil prosecution against the law firm for incompetence - not practical.

I am using this so that you don't have a false sense of assurance on a fall-back net of invoking the Ombudsman.

I hope your template letter from the Which? website has the desired outcome. I cant help but think that if a letter of similar content was sent from a solicitor on a legal letter headed paper, the impact might have given the greatest chance of a resolution.
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