Welcome to 911UK
The only place for Porsche, 911uk is the definitive enthusiast and resource site for the Porsche 911.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so join up today for full access to the site and benefit from latest member offers.

Porsche Classifieds
Sell Your Porsche on 911uk
Create a Free Classified Advert
Search Ads
Classified Adverts FAQ
Trade Classified Information
Buyer & Seller Fraud Protection
Consumer Rights Act
Pre Purchase Inspection (PPI)
Porsche Car Sourcing
Porsche Cars Wanted
Official Porsche Centre Reviews
Model
Stock
Porsche 911
992 : 2019- 1
991 : 2011- 17
997 : 2004- 80
996 : 1997-2005 32
993 : 1993-1998 4
964 : 1989-1993 2
Carrera 3.2 : 1983-1989 3
Carrera SC : 1977-1983 1
930 Turbo : 1975-1989 0
Early 911 : 1964-1977 0
Porsche Other Models
Classic : 1950-1965 0
Boxster : 1997- 25
Cayman : 2005- 16
Cayenne : 2003- 2
Macan : 2014- 4
Panamera : 2009- 0
912-914-924-928-944-968 1
959 - CarreraGT - RaceCar 0
Car Parts For Sale & Wanted
Other Items For Sale & Wanted
Wheels Tyres For Sale & Wanted
Number Plates For Sale Wanted

Porsche Services
Porsche Body Shop Repair
Paint Protection & Wrapping
Porsche Classic Insurance
Porsche Classic Parts
Porsche Classic Restoration
Porsche Design Collection
Porsche Engine Gearbox Rebuild
Porsche Heritage & History
Porsche News
Porsche Picture Gallery
Win a New Porsche 911

Porsche Parts
Body Parts, Body Styling
Brakes, Clearance
Electrical, Exhausts
Engine Cooling, Engine Electrical
Engine Rebuild, Heating Cooling
Interior Incar, Lighting
Rubber Seals, Service Parts
Steering, Suspension
Transmission, Workshop Tools
Early 911, 911 - 930, 928 - 968
964 - 993, 996 - 997, Boxster
Cayman, Cayenne, Panamera

Porsche Model Range
911 [992] 2018-Current
Porsche 911 [992]
911 [991] 2011-2019
Porsche 911 [991]
911 [997] 2004-2012
Porsche 911 [997]
911 [GT] GT1-GT2-GT3
Porsche 911 [GT]
911 [996] 1997-2005
Porsche 911 [996]
911 [993] 1993-1998
Porsche 911 [993]
911 [RS] RS-RSR
Porsche 911 [RS]
911 [964] 1989-1993
Porsche 911 [964]
911 3.2 1983-1989
Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera
911 SC 1977-1983
Porsche 911 SC
911 [Early] 1964-1977
Porsche 911 [Early]
Boxster & Cayman
Porsche Boxster & Cayman
Cayenne & Panamera
Porsche Cayenne & Panamera

911uk Site Partners

Post new topic   Reply to topic
Author Message
Bluebird911
Nürburgring


Joined: 29 May 2010
Posts: 453



PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want to change your IMSB, I would make sure it is carried out by someone experienced in this work.

I'm not recommending them through experience, but the people below seem to have a good reputation on other forums for this work.

https://rpmtechnik.co.uk/servicing/ims-bearing-upgrade/

Google Porsche IMS bearing specialists and a list of respected Indie appear. Other forums could be useful. Try PistonHeads or other Porsche forums for recommendations. Not many recommendations for bearing replacements appear on here.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
deMort
Dijon


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 7161
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hooner wrote:
my car i a 99 3.4 which has the dual row bearing now clocking on 100k the rms is leaking so in the winter i am thinking of changing it, if the ims looks dodgy what could i replace it with? as the dual bearings are no longer available.


Im not getting into the should i or shouldn't i replace it as ive said what i think many times including in this thread .. link here seems to offer duel / single .

http://imsretrofit.com/
_________________
.

My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target see Here

Thank you all so Very much .

She's not going until july 2020 though .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16679
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm telling you now - it'll be fine. Just ping the outer seal off the bearing so it spends the rest of its days in fresh engine oil.

Ps. It might be your ims cover plate leaking and not rms. You won't know till you're in there.........and I wouldn't even bother sorting tour leak unless you're having a new clutch fit.
_________________
2000 Manual 996 C4 Arctic Silver Convertible




Last edited by Alex on Fri May 18, 2018 8:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
kas750
Shanghai


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 4512
Location: Chorley lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just warm it up carefully and warm it down carefully and in between cane the arse off it and change the oil regularly.Jobs a good 'un thumbsup
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Hooner
Monza


Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 155
Location: Co Antrim,NI


PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deMort wrote:
Hooner wrote:
my car i a 99 3.4 which has the dual row bearing now clocking on 100k the rms is leaking so in the winter i am thinking of changing it, if the ims looks dodgy what could i replace it with? as the dual bearings are no longer available.


Im not getting into the should i or shouldn't i replace it as ive said what i think many times including in this thread .. link here seems to offer duel / single .

http://imsretrofit.com/

thanks for the link much appreciated.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Hooner
Monza


Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 155
Location: Co Antrim,NI


PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
I'm telling you now - it'll be fine. Just ping the outer seal off the bearing so it spends the rest of its days in fresh engine oil.

Ps. It might be your ims cover plate leaking and not rms. You won't know till you're in there.........and I wouldn't even bother sorting tour leak unless you're having a new clutch fit.

Thats the plan its just incase its knackered. Thumb
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Cybot7
Trainee


Joined: 17 Dec 2017
Posts: 95
Location: Cobham, Surrey

2001 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hooner wrote:
my car i a 99 3.4 which has the dual row bearing now clocking on 100k the rms is leaking so in the winter i am thinking of changing it, if the ims looks dodgy what could i replace it with? as the dual bearings are no longer available.

Mine is an early 2001 3.4 but I don't know whether it has a single or dual roller bearing. I was wondering if it's taken out and it's found to be perfect is it advisable to get a new one or stick the old one back in? I guess having gone that far it's best to stick a new one in as the bearing itself isn't that expensive or so I've been lead to believe. I'm easily lead btw Wink
_________________
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16679
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will have the dual row. You don't need to remove it to check it. Pulling the bearing out in situ can do damage to other engine components like chain guides. Have it checked, remove the outer seal and then leave well alone.
_________________
2000 Manual 996 C4 Arctic Silver Convertible


 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2971


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked at mine recently, 130k 3.4 MY99

I was replacing the clutch and flywheel (on my back on drive in the snow).

Locked the cams with a homemade tool and whipped the tensioners out for new seals.

Whilst there I took the IMS bearing cover off and inspected the bearing.

Mine felt like new, no roughness, no play, just buttery smoothness. I removed the bearing seal and old oil came out, I left it off as Alex says it will now get effectively fed new oil all the time.

Used loads of blue sealant on the cover going back and popped in the latest RMS whilst I was there.
_________________
My special order MY99 Vesuvious Charcoal 996 | Clutch, Fly RMS IMS AOS Job |
Steering Rack Hard Lines | Air Con Compressor / System
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Cybot7
Trainee


Joined: 17 Dec 2017
Posts: 95
Location: Cobham, Surrey

2001 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
You will have the dual row. You don't need to remove it to check it. Pulling the bearing out in situ can do damage to other engine components like chain guides. Have it checked, remove the outer seal and then leave well alone.

Thanks. As I'm not a mechanical genius can this be done with the engine in situ and without removing the clutch assembly?
_________________
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16679
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can only be done with your gearbox & clutch off but with engine in. Just wait till you have access there for a clutch, etc.
_________________
2000 Manual 996 C4 Arctic Silver Convertible


 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Cybot7
Trainee


Joined: 17 Dec 2017
Posts: 95
Location: Cobham, Surrey

2001 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
Can only be done with your gearbox & clutch off but with engine in. Just wait till you have access there for a clutch, etc.

Thanks, Alex. As it's only done 30k I think a new clutch is some way off.
_________________
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16679
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1st new clutch on mine was around 40k.
_________________
2000 Manual 996 C4 Arctic Silver Convertible


 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Cybot7
Trainee


Joined: 17 Dec 2017
Posts: 95
Location: Cobham, Surrey

2001 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
1st new clutch on mine was around 40k.

About two years to go for me then Very Happy
_________________
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
911munKy
Montreal


Joined: 26 Nov 2014
Posts: 535



PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hooner wrote:
my car i a 99 3.4 which has the dual row bearing now clocking on 100k the rms is leaking so in the winter i am thinking of changing it, if the ims looks dodgy what could i replace it with? as the dual bearings are no longer available.


You can fit a standard single row bearing and make up a spacer athough I like the look of this dual row bearing which should be better (although maybe not as good as the original dual row bearing Dont know I’ve not heard of anyone fitting it so I think you should be the guinea pig).

https://www.onlinebearings.co.uk/3204-ATN9C3-SKF-Double-Row-Angular-Contact-Ball-Bearing-Polyamide-Cage.html
_________________
2000 C2 996
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
bazhart
Approved Trader


Joined: 20 May 2009
Posts: 959
Location: Bolton Lancashire


PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The difficulty here is that some bearings were fitted a bit tighter than others (usual manufacturers tolerance build up) and these generated more minute running in metallic particles that mixed with grease and formed grinding paste that prematurely damaged some bearings.

Most however were OK.

The grease gradually escaped because when hot it is very thin and at that point it depends how worn the seal is as to how much engine oil can seep back in to protect the bearing.

This is why they either seem to fail early (under 45K) or last well over 100K.

Unfortunately the small spindle shaft that holds it all together has a machined recess in it for an "O" ring and this makes it weak in bending.

When you remove the spider to inspect or remove and replace the bearing - even with the chain tensioners removed at the right crankshaft angle to avoid chain timing slip - the tension in the chain makes the bearing sit out of line with the hole it has to fit into and the sideways pressure needed to align it is often applied by bending loads on that weak spindle making it likely to metal fatigue in the future.

Furthermore the bearing hole will have picked up metallic deposits (compaction) so after removing the old bearing it may not be perfectly round so this needs inspecting and measuring before a re-fit and if unsuitable remedial work may be needed.

Because most early failures have already occurred by now and because it can do more damage by trying to replace a bearing - the statistics show absolutely that leaving it alone is p roving a cheaper option than trying to replace it in situ.

This will of course not stop a small number of unfortunate owners still having a failure but it is better overall for us to give advice that applies to and benefits the vast majority than that which would make more of them suffer as a result.

The bearing size of the small bearing is basically to small for the job and whether it is a single or double ball bearing, or a roller bearing (that will not resists the significant side loading that chain flap causes) the only reliable alternative to fit in situ is a solid bearing with separate oil supply.

Since many engines will need a rebuild at higher mileages and we can then fit the larger bearing (without seal) either a Porsche one or our own remanufactured version (which is made with both Hivo and roller chain drives so suits older cars as well) this adds to the advice that generally and statistically it might be better to leave alone than try and inspect it (unless there are obvious signs of failure of course).

If there are obvious signs that something needs to be done and the owner cannot afford an engine rebuild then the risk of replacing the bearing in situ has to be born and in those cases we have an alternative available.

We have had to replace many other "replacement" designs that had grand claims associated with them but never a solid bearing version (although they are much more expensive).

It is sad that less help was not forthcoming from Porsche and the many independents that have tried their best in good faith to provide a solution should not be berated if they do not always work as well as they hoped. If Porsche could not get it right it is a bit much to expect small independents to.

A single bearing has just as much load rating as a double row because the internal tracks are narrower in a double row and so either are similar in rating.

There are different ball bearing types and suppliers and they come in different specifications and tolerances and the right one to use relates to the original clearances and tolerances Porsche made the parts to and should allow for age deformation of the bearing housing and compaction etc.

My own personal view is that with all older Porsche's following the traditional trend of eventually increasing in value and with less petrol sports cars likely to be around in years to come and with properly rebuilt engines (and properly designed and developed oversized versions becoming available) it might be better to consider that route and fix the IMS problem at the same time and for posterity.

Sorry to repeat that none of this advice will prevent some poor soul somewhere having a failure - it is a small risk factor that was not caused by the independents and there are plenty of alternatives to consider.

Sorry there is not a simple solution.

Baz
_________________
Click here for the Hartech

You can trust us to "CARE FOR YOUR PORSCHE"
www.hartech.org

Last edited by bazhart on Thu May 24, 2018 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
   
Kingb4
Nürburgring


Joined: 20 Jan 2018
Posts: 379
Location: Beds/Bucks


PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent post Baz - I think we all appreciate your input.

I for one am following your advice (am on 80k and original IMS - as far as I know). I accept the risk (small) I am running, based on the statistics.
_________________
2002 996.2 C2 Cabriolet
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Hooner
Monza


Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 155
Location: Co Antrim,NI


PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have gotten hold of a nos double row ims bearing and am wondering if there is a stronger shaft it sits on available any where? or a new one incase it breaks whilst trying to remove it. Question
_________________
911 a way of life!
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 16679
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You must be crackers removing a good bearimg and fitting an unknown dual row. The failures were mainly due to bearing tolerances. You NOS bearing may be one of the ones that go pop.
_________________
2000 Manual 996 C4 Arctic Silver Convertible


 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Hooner
Monza


Joined: 03 May 2018
Posts: 155
Location: Co Antrim,NI


PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
You must be crackers removing a good bearimg and fitting an unknown dual row. The failures were mainly due to bearing tolerances. You NOS bearing may be one of the ones that go pop.


im not removing it yet, i'm gathering parts for a future overall the new on will be fitted without the oil seals if and when required. I new stronger retaining shaft would be fitted too if i can locate one?
_________________
911 a way of life!
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   All times are GMT - 12 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum