Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:07 pm Post subject: Hello, new newbie alert and I have questions
Hi, I've just signed up as I'm about to purchase a 1998 c2 996 hardtop manual with cable throttle. She's got 113k on the clock with a FSH and is in good nick. She does have a couple of little niggles so I just wanted to make sure I wasn't making a schoolboy error in assuming they're fairly straightforward issues.
1. is the central locking. Apparently if you just press the lock button on the key once the alarm will go off after a few hours. To get round this current owner simply presses button twice which disarms the internal sensors. Sensors seem to be cheap but does this ring alarm bells for anyone ( no pun intended).
2. Condensers need doing apparently, am hoping this is a couple of hours diy on the drive or are there any complications I should be aware of? Looks like the main hassle is just taking the bumper off..
3. IMS not been done. Can anyone recommend a good cheap deal on upgrade service? However am considering running as is.
4. Main belt looks a bit discoloured and is due for change, is this major labour cost or not too bad?
Thanks for any help in advance. Looking forward to ownership!
HSC911 Shanghai
Joined: 23 Jul 2014 Posts: 4743 Location: Bedford
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:18 pm Post subject:
Someone will be along shortly to give you a sensible answer or 4
I'd just drive it for now, if you buy it, and worry about the engine blowing up IF it ever happens
asterix_the_gaul Suzuka
Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1030 Location: Cheshire
Don't worry about the ims on an early car like that.
Fit some bumper mesh when you get the bumper off so you don't have to replace the rads yet.again. _________________ 1992 944 S2 Cabriolet, Cobalt Blue/Classic grey -gone!
1995 993 C2 Cabriolet, Midnight Blue/Marble grey -gone!
1999 996 C2 Coupe, Ocean Blue/Graphite grey
2002 E46 M3 Cabriolet, Laguna seca blue/LSB
Halcyon Hockenheim
Joined: 02 Nov 2015 Posts: 718 Location: Somerset
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:29 pm Post subject: Re: Hello, new newbie alert and I have questions
Scaramangasthirdnipple wrote:
2. Condensers need doing apparently, am hoping this is a couple of hours diy on the drive or are there any complications I should be aware of? Looks like the main hassle is just taking the bumper off..
3. IMS not been done. Can anyone recommend a good cheap deal on upgrade service? However am considering running as is.
I've done the condensers on mine - a couple of hours is spot on, Get the A/C de-gassed first. Venting to atmosphere is illegal and will scare you shirtless when it depressurises as you undo something
Read the lengthy advice from Hartech (on this forum) about the IMS - IMHO, it would have gone by now if it was going to go + older models like yours have a double-row bearing and (I hope Alex will confirm) that no member has had one of those go _________________ 996.2 Carrera 4 Convertible Tip
Welcome! Sounds like a nice early car, so no need to worry about the IMS as it's a dual row one.
Getting the front PU off is easy, there are just two annoying screws which you can only get off by removing some of the wheelarch liners.
If you are OK with DIY, the drive belt looks straightforward.
Cracking username by the way _________________ "911- the guilt-free supercar"
Current: 2003 C4S Coupe, seal/black
Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
Moodytunes Newbie
Joined: 09 Oct 2016 Posts: 39
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:53 pm Post subject: IMS
I bought a MY2000 C4 in 2016. It's got about 88,000 miles on it and I've not done anything with the IMS.
I do worry from time to time especially if I read anything by certain traders who insist on it being done but the whole IMS issue is, in my view, blown up out of all proportion.
Like the comments on here point to: double-row bearing and if it was going to go it probably would have by now. Enjoy it and put the IMS thing to bed for now
alex yates Brands Hatch
Joined: 06 Mar 2014 Posts: 13504 Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: Hello, new newbie alert and I have questions
Halcyon wrote:
Scaramangasthirdnipple wrote:
2. Condensers need doing apparently, am hoping this is a couple of hours diy on the drive or are there any complications I should be aware of? Looks like the main hassle is just taking the bumper off..
3. IMS not been done. Can anyone recommend a good cheap deal on upgrade service? However am considering running as is.
I've done the condensers on mine - a couple of hours is spot on, Get the A/C de-gassed first. Venting to atmosphere is illegal and will scare you shirtless when it depressurises as you undo something
Read the lengthy advice from Hartech (on this forum) about the IMS - IMHO, it would have gone by now if it was going to go + older models like yours have a double-row bearing and (I hope Alex will confirm) that no member has had one of those go
Confirmed!
Forget about the ims, all smoke and mirrors. _________________ 2000 Manual 996 C4 Arctic Silver Convertible
Sun's out Gun's out.
Armagreggon85 Trainee
Joined: 04 Jan 2017 Posts: 67
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:11 pm Post subject:
I bought a 98 plate c2 3 years ago on 104k miles. Its now up to 136k and IMS is still original. My theory is just drive it. If something goes wrong it will be an excuse to turn it into a 3.7
Drive belt is a piece of p**s. 15 mins, whip out the airbox , counter rotate one of the tensioners (forget which one) and you can slip the old belt off IIRC
Griffter Monza
Joined: 22 May 2016 Posts: 186
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:10 am Post subject:
Slightly off topic, apologies.
If the failure mode of the IMS bearing is that it runs dry and fails (which seems to be the prevailing wisdom) what difference does it make whether it’s dual row or single row?
Fastlane Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 05 Mar 2017 Posts: 335 Location: Truro
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:53 am Post subject:
Sounds like the car for sale in Falmouth? If it is I have seen it around as I am local to it. Seems like a good price too and as has been said, the work highlighted isn't too bad, but I would be pretty sure it will need more doing than just the things you have mentioned, as will all 996s of that age. If it is the Falmouth car, it was last serviced at Porsche Exeter in December 2016 and they will have a provided list of work that they recommend. Has the owner shared this with you? If not you could ring Exeter and ask about it.
Anyway, good luck and be sure to ask on here for advice. _________________ 2001 Zanzibar Red 996.1 C4
Aerokit; Sunroof delete; Sport Design wheels in GT Silver; M030; Sports seats; Carbon handbrake and gear knob; 3 spoke steering wheel; Top Gear manifolds, Sports Sound silencers & 200 cell cats; 997 GT3 shifter; Low temperature thermostat, Sprint Booster; Alpine SPG-10C2 speaker upgrade.
Past:
1992 Zermatt Silver 964 turbo
1991 Midnight Blue 964 turbo
1994 Guards Red 968 Sport
1987 Baltic Blue 928 S4 auto
alex yates Brands Hatch
Joined: 06 Mar 2014 Posts: 13504 Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire
If the failure mode of the IMS bearing is that it runs dry and fails (which seems to be the prevailing wisdom) what difference does it make whether it’s dual row or single row?
That's not really the failure mode. The majority were down to manufacturing tolerances overlapping causing too much initial excessive wear on the bearing, mixed with the grease packed inside created a lapping paste with would very quickly munch the bearing. Also centre spigot snapping under load was another failure mode. The sealed bearing in an oil environment was a flawed design but not the main culprit.
If one of the bearing rows fails on a dual row, you still have the other one limping along. On a single row, if it fails the lot is wiped out.
So I suppose you've half a chance of not smashing your engine to smithereens with a dual row vs. single.
But IMHO, IMS bearing failure is the last thing on these cars you need to worry yourself about! _________________ 2000 Manual 996 C4 Arctic Silver Convertible
Sun's out Gun's out.
GMG Trainee
Joined: 07 Jan 2018 Posts: 69 Location: Devon
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:31 am Post subject:
...sorry Alex but you are talking rubbish in respect to the IMS and to the original thread starter...get the bearing changed!
3 months ago I purchased an immaculate 2003 3.6 Tip' with 69k miles 2 owners and a complete PORSCHE history with all associated invoices...as good a model as you could hope to find.
Phoned hartech to discuss the IMS issues and specifically if I should have it replaced..Grant told me that having read the stories I had scared myself...advise was just drive the car and forget about the bearing...
Last week as I was driving it I heard a rattling sound akin to a rattling exhaust...parked car up looked underneath and all of the oil was pouring out of the IMS bearing!...car was taken to a Porsche specialist where diagnosis revealed bearing issue...filter full of swarf ...thus full engine rebuild required... oh and on the same day coincidentally another 996 was towed in with a failed IMS...
So my advice to anyone reading this or considering a 996 or ruminating about their bearing is to ignore all of those like Alex and others who say "don't worry about" and get it changed...piece of mind and significantly cheaper than an engine rebuild!
You have been warned...oh and car was serviced just a few hundred miles before with Miller's Nano oil and filter was completely clean...
Martin996RSR Monza
Joined: 08 Dec 2016 Posts: 231
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:46 am Post subject:
Its an early dual row bearing engine. Don't listen to CMG, his experience was with a single row bearing. Alex is totally right in what he's written. If you're feeling paranoid then then you next have the clutch changed, get the IMS bearing cover removed by someone with the correct cam locking tools, and get the bearing checked for play, then flip off and leave off the dust cover on the bearing.
I also have a 1998 C2 with a dual row bearing and perfect bores, and not problems, or suspicions of problems with ither despite similar milage to the car you're hoping to buy.
tom_nieto Monza
Joined: 08 Jan 2017 Posts: 175
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:46 am Post subject:
GMG - yours is the later 3.6 engine with a different bearing OP is talking about the 3.4. Sorry that yours went though. Horrible just thinking about it.
alex yates Brands Hatch
Joined: 06 Mar 2014 Posts: 13504 Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire
GMG - You're the 1st 996 owner member in my 4 years of being a member on here that has suffered an IMS bearing failure. Many other members have suffered other expensive failures like cam chains breaking, bore scoring, snap valves, worn crank, etc.
So, with your logic applied - the best advice anyone could give is DON'T BUY A CAR.
By the way - Did you ask Hartech how many IMS bearing failures they've seen from replacement bearing 'upgrades? Thought not. _________________ 2000 Manual 996 C4 Arctic Silver Convertible
Sun's out Gun's out.
Marky911 Albert Park
Joined: 04 Jun 2009 Posts: 1599
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:09 am Post subject:
I've a foot in both camps.
Although the single row bearing is worse for going bang than the dual row, plenty of dual row bearings have let go too. Too think otherwise is plain head in the sand stuff.
My cars dual row went at 55k and a replacement engine was fitted.
When I bought my car, top of the list was an IMSB replacement but after reading a lot about it, I gave in to Hartechs wisdom and had the clutch done and IMSB seal flipped off. I'm hoping that will be enough to keep my bearing alive until something else lets go.
There are a lot of other things that can let go too though, but to say the IMSB never goes or isn't as bad as some other issues isn't correct. Tell that to someone like GMG, above. He also isn't talking rubbish. He speaks from experience and has the wallet damage to remind him for a while.
Another common statement is that 3.4s don't bore score. Again incorrect. Compared to the 3.6s they do it much less, but my indy has done a handful of 3.4s that have suffered from borescore. I trust what he tells me over some bloke on the internet.
3.4s have a whole load of their own maladies though, such as D chunking, dropping valves and wearing their crankshaft bearings out.
They were never Porsches finest hour and never will be. I enjoy my car but given the choice I'd be in something air-cooled, something with a Mezger, or something after '09 with the DFi motor.
Yes all performance engines have issues but the 996s have much more than what I class as acceptable. To think I used to wince at a £1200 vanos repair on my M3s.
The 996s issues give the M3s issues the sh*ts.
Lovely engines when they work, but they are very poor quality.
ragpicker Estoril
Joined: 14 Apr 2013 Posts: 3515 Location: North East England
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:41 am Post subject:
Just popped in to say
Best newby username for quite some time, hope you stick around _________________ 996 turbo - slightly modified....
986 S - usually in pieces: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=112626
skinny_monkey Spa-Francorchamps
Joined: 16 Sep 2014 Posts: 364
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:10 am Post subject:
Well good news is that front bumper off is easy. So is belt (if you can figure out where it all goes!)
C4-STORM Montreal
Joined: 29 Aug 2017 Posts: 558 Location: Hampshire
If the failure mode of the IMS bearing is that it runs dry and fails (which seems to be the prevailing wisdom) what difference does it make whether it’s dual row or single row?
smithereens
Love that word _________________ 2004 C4S Coupe 3.6 Tiptronic S ~ Basalt Black ~ Black Crested Sports Seats ~ Alcantara ~ S/R Delete ~ WEVO Engine Mounts ~ K&N Induction Filter ~ DesignTek Sports Exhausts ~ Quad Tips ~ RUF Hubcentrics ~ RUF Sports Springs ~ Paddle Shift Steering Upgrade ~ Rear Wiper Delete
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