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BChivs
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Joined: 02 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally don’t think the 997T will ever have a collectibility factor.....it sits in the middle of a water cooled generation with no real special attributes....just modernisation.
Take the 996T, the ugly duckling turn swan, the first water cooled Mezger, a milestone in Porsche development.....its a recipe for a classic - the 997T? Not sure I could say the same?
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apollokre1d
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I for one hope they do not become collectibles. I've had mine nearly 3 years and still love seeing other 997.1 Turbo's on the road and would hate to see them become another 993 thumbsup
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Scholester
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Joined: 16 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BChivs wrote:
I personally don’t think the 997T will ever have a collectibility factor.....it sits in the middle of a water cooled generation with no real special attributes....just modernisation.
Take the 996T, the ugly duckling turn swan, the first water cooled Mezger, a milestone in Porsche development.....its a recipe for a classic - the 997T? Not sure I could say the same?


That is certainly one way of looking at it. Im not sure that the swan analogy works in this instance - maybe more ugly duckling turns duck.
I am not knocking the 996 but I think there is enough improvement in most areas to make the 997 the better long term prospect?

The 993 had everything going for it - a truely great looking car and the tag of being The last of blah blah blah works whereas 996 being held in high esteem due to being The first of doesn't quite work for me.
Whilst I was definitely after a Turbo, the car I chose had to look the part and the 996 was never going to find its way into my garage and I think that my tastes are pretty mainstream. Time will tell but my money is not on the duck.

To answer the OP's questions -
Question Thumb I do however think that they remain good value compared to some other options on the market so you are unlikely to lose your coat and I see them continuing their steady climb if condition is A1.
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Ishay
Monza


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, the 996t is not a swan. It’s a lovely car in most company but it will always be the least good of a great series of cars. I struggle to see why the first water cooled Mezger is any more appealing than the last. I honestly didn’t give one a second thought when the 997t came within my range.
 
  
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Boba fett
Indianapolis


Joined: 14 May 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BChivs wrote:
I personally don’t think the 997T will ever have a collectibility factor.....it sits in the middle of a water cooled generation with no real special attributes....just modernisation.
Take the 996T, the ugly duckling turn swan, the first water cooled Mezger, a milestone in Porsche development.....its a recipe for a classic - the 997T? Not sure I could say the same?


Put those Stella's away Grin Grin Grin
 
  
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BChivs
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 02 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boba fett wrote:
BChivs wrote:
I personally don’t think the 997T will ever have a collectibility factor.....it sits in the middle of a water cooled generation with no real special attributes....just modernisation.
Take the 996T, the ugly duckling turn swan, the first water cooled Mezger, a milestone in Porsche development.....its a recipe for a classic - the 997T? Not sure I could say the same?


Put those Stella's away Grin Grin Grin



😂😂😂
Just my view I suppose. I personally prefer the 996. Lower stance, more mechanical feel, the little bit of lag reminds you your driving a 911T.

I was reading an article by an expert Porsche valuer that analyses for collectors, insurers, and even main dealers....it’s published in the JZM newsletter.
A number of 996’s all went through the RM Paris auction at record results highlighting a jump in 996 values and collector desirability.
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Main Force Patrol
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 10 Dec 2017
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the general point I would make, is the value & availability of good 996T is still yet to peak ( or maybe its close ) and it’s starting to effect the price positively of 997T

One thing for sure, as a financial decision, New BMW on Lease vs my Purchase I can almost guarantee I will be up on that deal in 2 years time, and I will have had the sheer pleasure of my Beast Evil or Very Mad

Will I be in profit ? Maybe but probably not
Will I be £5/6k up versus a new Beamer ? I reckon I will for sure Mr. Green
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Ishay
Monza


Joined: 28 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Main Force Patrol wrote:
I think the general point I would make, is the value & availability of good 996T is still yet to peak ( or maybe its close ) and it’s starting to effect the price positively of 997T

One thing for sure, as a financial decision, New BMW on Lease vs my Purchase I can almost guarantee I will be up on that deal in 2 years time, and I will have had the sheer pleasure of my Beast Evil or Very Mad

Will I be in profit ? Maybe but probably not
Will I be £5/6k up versus a new Beamer ? I reckon I will for sure Mr. Green


I’ve been out of the company car scheme for 4 years with 997s and aged BMW dailies with little left to depreciate. Even after some big bills I’ve calculated I’m £20k up already (based on flat not appreciation) and have owned 997s as a bonus

Whereas I used to just have a 320d Surprised
 
  
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Martian
Sepang


Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 2918
Location: Bury St. Edmunds

2007 Porsche 997 Turbo

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BChivs wrote:
.....Take the 996T, the ugly duckling turn swan.....


Are you smoking those funny fags again? Very Happy
 
  
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kozzi
Nürburgring


Joined: 30 Nov 2014
Posts: 448
Location: suffolk


PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it all about what you like and what you can afford; don't get on the investment ladder as you will not enjoy your car!
A 996 is cheaper but hey its still a blinking good car and a lot cheaper than a 997 TT. All that extra for a track day car to spend on
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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably more accurate than inaccurate in summing up values. Investment cases are often based on ticket prices in ads. But if you have one to offload, the surprise comes when you go touting around specialists on values for your car versus another - a huge deflationary experience for many.

Offset that offer (value) versus what you have spent - this is a high maintenance car if its to be kept in tip-top shape. You might break even with a tail wind if you bought in the last 3-4 years.

Any decent Porsche specialist will put your proposed part-ex up for an inspection and find work he needs to do to prep it prior to sale. He's just softening you up for the next line - "its a great car. BUT, it needs some spend prior to sale and for me to assure a purchaser with a warranty I'd have to factor that into what I'm prepared to offer you. (So I'll offer you 80% of what you think its worth)"

Just some examples of how he will devalue your car and lower your expectations:
- After-market Double Din unit - most people want a car with the original PCM even though its dated
- Needs a front respray for the stone chips and we send them away to Porsche-approved bodyshop
- After that, it needs a full machine polish and detail for which I have ot bring in an outside guy
- The wheels are OK but we like to refurb all of them to make the car immaculate on presentation
- It needs a major service and we'd have to put a fresh 12 months MOT on it
- Its a tidy car, but its a tiptronic and so many buyers want a manual car
- Its a manual car but may need a clutch soon
- The suspension is looking tired and will require a refresh with coffin arms and geometry as its done 80k miles and there is no evidence in the history when these were refreshed
etc.

So the simple answer to 997.1 turbo values? The answer is "less than you the current owner think"

Investment value? Probably too high a volume car to be a strong contender, but could be some inherent investment value which is lower than one initially is led to believe.
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Last edited by cheshire911 on Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3826



PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martian wrote:
BChivs wrote:
.....Take the 996T, the ugly duckling turn swan.....


Are you smoking those funny fags again? Very Happy


Or drinking that meths again?
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Boba fett
Indianapolis


Joined: 14 May 2015
Posts: 2351



PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BChivs wrote:
Boba fett wrote:
BChivs wrote:
I personally don’t think the 997T will ever have a collectibility factor.....it sits in the middle of a water cooled generation with no real special attributes....just modernisation.
Take the 996T, the ugly duckling turn swan, the first water cooled Mezger, a milestone in Porsche development.....its a recipe for a classic - the 997T? Not sure I could say the same?


Put those Stella's away Grin Grin Grin



😂😂😂
Just my view I suppose. I personally prefer the 996. Lower stance, more mechanical feel, the little bit of lag reminds you your driving a 911T.

I was reading an article by an expert Porsche valuer that analyses for collectors, insurers, and even main dealers....it’s published in the JZM newsletter.
A number of 996’s all went through the RM Paris auction at record results highlighting a jump in 996 values and collector desirability.


The 996 Turbo is a great car, it is, I had one for 8 years (reason deprecation, the ugly Duck, and it still is, that will not change) The need to justify a 996 is enough, just get a 997, and don't look back, as I did by the way.

Just cleaning it alone is enough when you buff round the cult oval 911 headlights rather than the fried eggs of the 996. The 997 is the best of its time, it is also one of the best looking 911's of all time.

 
  
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Boba fett
Indianapolis


Joined: 14 May 2015
Posts: 2351



PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire911 wrote:
Probably more accurate than inaccurate in summing up values. Investment cases are often based on ticket prices in ads. But if you have one to offload, the surprise comes when you go touting around specialists on values for your car versus another - a huge deflationary experience for many.

Offset that offer (value) versus what you have spent - this is a high maintenance car if its to be kept in tip-top shape. You might break even with a tail wind if you bought in the last 3-4 years.

Any decent Porsche specialist will put your proposed part-ex up for an inspection and find work he needs to do to prep it prior to sale. He's just softening you up for the next line - "its a great car. BUT, it needs some spend prior to sale and for me to assure a purchaser with a warranty I'd have to factor that into what I'm prepared to offer you. (So I'll offer you 80% of what you think its worth)"

Just some examples of how he will devalue your car and lower your expectations:
- After-market Double Din unit - most people want a car with the original PCM even though its dated
- Needs a front respray for the stone chips and we send them away to Porsche-approved bodyshop
- After that, it needs a full machine polish and detail for which I have ot bring in an outside guy
- The wheels are OK but we like to refurb all of them to make the car immaculate on presentation
- It needs a major service and we'd have to put a fresh 12 months MOT on it
- Its a tidy car, but its a tiptronic and so many buyers want a manual car
- Its a manual car but may need a clutch soon
- The suspension is looking tired and will require a refresh with coffin arms and geometry as its done 80k miles and there is no evidence in the history when these were refreshed
etc.

So the simple answer to 997.1 turbo values? The answer is "less than you the current owner think"

Investment value? Probably too high a volume car to be a strong contender, but could be some inherent investment value which is lower than one initially is led to believe.


In 10 years no one will want a 911 that looks like a Boxster, its the wrong Jenson Interceptor so to speak.

The reason 996 (and in particular the Turbo) prices have risen is - because it is today, even still a very good car and a performance bargain. That's it.
 
  
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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3826



PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason 996 (and in particular the Turbo) prices have risen is - because it is today, even still a very good car and a performance bargain. That's it.

Who said it wasn't? I own a 996 Turbo! But the fact is people still want a 996 Turbo. I would not 'upgrade' from mine to a 997.1 Turbo - not enough in it to justify cost of change. A 997.2 PDK Turbo or a Turbo S? Now that's different.

But remember this is a thread on values - so my answer to the question about 997 Turbo values remains - "not as much as you think"
Try offloading it and touting it around dealers and witness how expectations for value are managed downwards.

PS Have you diagnosed and sorted the issue with your gearbox/diff/clutch or whatever it was found to be in the end?
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kozzi
Nürburgring


Joined: 30 Nov 2014
Posts: 448
Location: suffolk


PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire911 wrote:
Probably more accurate than inaccurate in summing up values. Investment cases are often based on ticket prices in ads. But if you have one to offload, the surprise comes when you go touting around specialists on values for your car versus another - a huge deflationary experience for many.

Offset that offer (value) versus what you have spent - this is a high maintenance car if its to be kept in tip-top shape. You might break even with a tail wind if you bought in the last 3-4 years.

Any decent Porsche specialist will put your proposed part-ex up for an inspection and find work he needs to do to prep it prior to sale. He's just softening you up for the next line - "its a great car. BUT, it needs some spend prior to sale and for me to assure a purchaser with a warranty I'd have to factor that into what I'm prepared to offer you. (So I'll offer you 80% of what you think its worth)"

Just some examples of how he will devalue your car and lower your expectations:
- After-market Double Din unit - most people want a car with the original PCM even though its dated
- Needs a front respray for the stone chips and we send them away to Porsche-approved bodyshop
- After that, it needs a full machine polish and detail for which I have ot bring in an outside guy
- The wheels are OK but we like to refurb all of them to make the car immaculate on presentation
- It needs a major service and we'd have to put a fresh 12 months MOT on it
- Its a tidy car, but its a tiptronic and so many buyers want a manual car
- Its a manual car but may need a clutch soon
- The suspension is looking tired and will require a refresh with coffin arms and geometry as its done 80k miles and there is no evidence in the history when these were refreshed
etc.

So the simple answer to 997.1 turbo values? The answer is "less than you the current owner think"

Investment value? Probably too high a volume car to be a strong contender, but could be some inherent investment value which is lower than one initially is led to believe.


That is exactly what my specialist did to my 997tt last year!!
Except for the wheel which I will do next couple of weeks
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Boba fett
Indianapolis


Joined: 14 May 2015
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheshire911 wrote:
The reason 996 (and in particular the Turbo) prices have risen is - because it is today, even still a very good car and a performance bargain. That's it.

Who said it wasn't? I own a 996 Turbo! But the fact is people still want a 996 Turbo. I would not 'upgrade' from mine to a 997.1 Turbo - not enough in it to justify cost of change. A 997.2 PDK Turbo or a Turbo S? Now that's different.

But remember this is a thread on values - so my answer to the question about 997 Turbo values remains - "not as much as you think"
Try offloading it and touting it around dealers and witness how expectations for value are managed downwards.

PS Have you diagnosed and sorted the issue with your gearbox/diff/clutch or whatever it was found to be in the end?


Could not be bothered to read that for obvious reasons - however I know a 997 will be the sought after model.

My issue will be sorted, it will just be a blemish on an amazing car and its performance.

I did not feel the need to mention my issues, but I did in the spirit of forums, such a shame you feel the need to mention it on every post.

Hope you do the very same when yours (and it will) goes wrong.
 
  
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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3826



PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
however I know a 997 will be the sought after model.

Certainly for you, maybe not for some. Its down to preference and choices. There is no right or wrong - its preference and choices.

such a shame you feel the need to mention it (your issues) on every post

Every post? Which posts? Are you sure of your facts Boba or is this a case of shooting from the hip?

I was endorsing the concern by others to that thread who said they hope you get it sorted soon. It was a signal of empathy and curiosity to understand what had caused it. That way, if it happens to me, I might have a starter for 10 where to look. However, you seem to see it differently.
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Boba fett
Indianapolis


Joined: 14 May 2015
Posts: 2351



PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boba fett wrote:
cheshire911 wrote:
Quote:
however I know a 997 will be the sought after model.

Certainly for you, maybe not for some. Its down to preference and choices. There is no right or wrong - its preference and choices.

such a shame you feel the need to mention it (your issues) on every post

Every post? Which posts? Are you sure of your facts Boba or is this a case of shooting from the hip?

I was endorsing the concern by others to that thread who said they hope you get it sorted soon. It was a signal of empathy and curiosity to understand what had caused it. That way, if it happens to me, I might have a starter for 10 where to look. However, you seem to see it differently.


You are a veteran poster, you know what you do, I have a very fair and open post of my cars issues, and you have read it - mention your sorrows there.
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 15467
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please stop it you two Cop

This isn't PH. Judge
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