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BChivs
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 02 Aug 2017
Posts: 337



PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spongebob squarepants wrote:
Interstingly (unless im missing something!) there were fewer 997.2 Turbos than any other model? This is why I dont understand the reasoning they wont rocket, as they are in fact the rarist model?
Id say a 997.2 is different enough to be a stand alone model and seperate to the 997.1 turbo?

On another note someone commented cars that stick ALWAYS have a problem, never a truer word spoken Thumb

Re: Herman Riveria blue mentioned earlier in the thread, hes mint condition, very low miles, been in a collection etc etc. Heres the BUT and why he hasnt sold hes only had 3 services in 12 years Confused bemused.com but hey ho, thats something that you can never get back obviously, what percentage realistically would we deduct for an incomplete service history??? The mileage all checks out, but an 07 car serviced 2009/2013/2017. May as well make a stupid offer Question


Servicing is the biggest issue I find with the majority of used Porsche no matter what model! Seems consistent with the brand!
Cars not serviced when they should or when they are by unrecognised back street mot stations! Can’t understand it! Dont know
I know there not cheap cars to own or run, but there not horrendously expensive either and if you buy a Porsche surely you’ve considered running costs??
The car I looked at Thursday was a 2007 car, serviced once in 09, again in 2010, then only a further minor service in 2016 yet he had genuinely convinced himself it had full service history! He got really uptight when I decided against it due to the lack of history and even tried arguing it had been done ahead of schedule as he had only done 10k between 2010 and 2016! frustrated
I know this is a contentious subject, but to me personallly even 2 year intervals is not enough....on a high performance at like a 997 Turbo I feel it should be serviced yearly. Unfortunately you have to be realistic knowing that will never happen and cars that have are the holly grail!
He will find out the hard way when he puts it on Autotrader that everyone says the same!
It seems when looking at the market there’s too many differences with spec, cond, age et. to accurately gauge values based on other cars advertised, and even more tricky when you realise half the cars advertised are not as they are described!
Feel free to flame my negatativity, and I was one of the ones a little while back argueing against the neigh sayers but since looking this year I have definitely noticed at least a plateau of prices. Not just Porsche, but prestige cars in general. I have seen a handful of dealers all dramatically reduce prices and by thousands not hundreds! Sign of the next year or so I’m not sure....I’m certainly no expert but when dealers slash prices and even comment on a slight downturn in market conditions you have to wonder.
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robbiej
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 03 Oct 2016
Posts: 303



PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i saw a perfect looking car, 09 first 997.2 turbo with every S option but it had only had one service, yes only 15K miles on the clock but the gap was way to far... the tyres were old and no test drive as it had been cleaned....

likely stored inside but how would I have known any issues, the dealer attitude was not what I would have like if I had issues either...

some dealers treat them like art objects not cars, great if you don't drive them much, like is to short to just look at them and not use them
 
  
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Scholester
Suzuka


Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 1039
Location: South West


PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

robbiej wrote:
i saw a perfect looking car, 09 first 997.2 turbo with every S option but it had only had one service, yes only 15K miles on the clock but the gap was way to far... the tyres were old and no test drive as it had been cleaned....

likely stored inside but how would I have known any issues, the dealer attitude was not what I would have like if I had issues either...

some dealers treat them like art objects not cars, great if you don't drive them much, like is to short to just look at them and not use them


Do car collectors with huge showrooms service the cars every year/ as schedule to retain the value or do other collectors accept the fact that because they have just sat there as objet d'art? I guess once a car is removed from a collection then it just becomes a car that has not been serviced enough - if that is the case?

What of museum pieces - are they serviced even if the engine is run for twenty minutes a month?
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911TEL
Barcelona


Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 1360
Location: Inverness and Highlands

2011 Porsche 997 Turbo S

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO, The 997 Turbo S is the obvious car which will appreciate to levels seen for the 993 Turbo ....

A better car in every way , less produced ... less imported to UK ( by extrapolated guesstimate)
Better looking by far .......

The 997.1 manual will be valued for the mezger engine and manual box for those who like manual ( I still stand by my own opinion that nobody could tell the difference between the Mezger or DFA engine ....apart from what hype they read and repeat .....)
High production numbers might limit th3 potential rise ..
I’d have one in a minute, gen 1.5 would be my choice though ...
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marconorth
Monza


Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 209
Location: Cumbria


PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

911TEL wrote:
The 997.1 manual will be valued for the mezger engine and manual box for those who like manual ( I still stand by my own opinion that nobody could tell the difference between the Mezger or DFA engine ....apart from what hype they read and repeat .....)


Mezger has an unmistakable sound at idle where the DFI unit doesn't.
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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3742



PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BChivs wrote:
Servicing is the biggest issue I find with the majority of used Porsche no matter what model! Seems consistent with the brand!
Cars not serviced when they should or when they are by unrecognised back street mot stations! Can’t understand it! Dont know
I know they are not cheap cars to own or run, but there not horrendously expensive either and if you buy a Porsche surely you’ve considered running costs??
The car I looked at Thursday was a 2007 car, serviced once in 09, again in 2010, then only a further minor service in 2016 yet he had genuinely convinced himself it had full service history! He got really uptight when I decided against it due to the lack of history and even tried arguing it had been done ahead of schedule as he had only done 10k between 2010 and 2016! frustrated
I know this is a contentious subject, but to me personally even 2 year intervals is not enough....on a high performance car like a 997 Turbo I feel it should be serviced yearly. Unfortunately you have to be realistic knowing that will never happen and cars that have are the holly grail!
He will find out the hard way when he puts it on Autotrader that everyone says the same!
It seems when looking at the market there’s too many differences with spec, cond, age et. to accurately gauge values based on other cars advertised, and even more tricky when you realise half the cars advertised are not as they are described!
Feel free to flame my negatativity, and I was one of the ones a little while back argueing against the neigh sayers but since looking this year I have definitely noticed at least a plateau of prices. Not just Porsche, but prestige cars in general. I have seen a handful of dealers all dramatically reduce prices and by thousands not hundreds! Sign of the next year or so I’m not sure....I’m certainly no expert but when dealers slash prices and even comment on a slight downturn in market conditions you have to wonder.


Many prestige brands prices have 'softened'. Its hard to sell a Ferrari 360 or F430 and sellers are realising that its a buyers market - and these two models are far fewer in number than Porsche 997 Turbo cars! So imagine the stock of 997 Turbo cars out there for sale - chasing (relatively) few buyers who can be picky and choosy - rejecting cars on ads that are priced too high, going to see cars that appear attractive in ads and price and then rejecting them because they have scant history and/or condition is poor versus the description in the ad. You'll be amazed at the number of cars with such history that you have seen, DIY/self servicing, or serviced at an unrecognised specialist.

You are right to tread carefully - especially after your experience with that C4S. The Turbo can eat bank balances for breakfast! Good luck. I am sure your perseverance and adherence to the standard of car you want will pay dividends in the final car you buy.
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BChivs
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 02 Aug 2017
Posts: 337



PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m a QS for one of the largest PLC Construction firms in the world, and considered one of the strongest in the market however head office have recently announced the dilution of one our most profitable divisions due to its capital heavy nature, and are closely scrutinising all business overheads including professional staff costs. Much of this is due to the carillon scandal, but also much to do with a rocky few years forecasted including the impact of Brexit change.

I think in general people are tightening their purse strings.

I have noticed just recently Hexagon Classics slash at least £5k off much of their stock, a dealer in Milton Keynes knock £5-6k off two 996 Turbo X50’s, 9E reduce a 996T, OPC Newcastle reduce a 997.1T by £3k, and other brands including many dealers reducing thousands from BMW M Cars including Bavarian, Lawton Brook reducing stock prices and also Munich Legends.

I didn’t like to accept it a few months ago, but it’s definately slowing. I enquired about a car that had been one of the above reduced, and asked the question ‘why the sudden reduction?’ And the replies I received were that the market is not what it was 18months ago....This is comments directly from blue chip dealerships.

I’m in no hurry to buy other than I have money burning a hole in my pocket and I envy those out making the most of the nice weather, but I will bide my time.
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keendean
Silverstone


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Posts: 135
Location: Cambs


PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is a sliding scale between trade value, private and retail in terms of price. To give some context on pricing, OPC have a manual 997T 42k miles for 55k with a decent spec and a 2 year warranty, the colour is not my choice. But with negotiation, this price could be reduced also.
 
  
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spongebob squarepants
Reims


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 4177
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BChivs wrote:
I’m a QS for one of the largest PLC Construction firms in the world, and considered one of the strongest in the market however head office have recently announced the dilution of one our most profitable divisions due to its capital heavy nature, and are closely scrutinising all business overheads including professional staff costs. Much of this is due to the carillon scandal, but also much to do with a rocky few years forecasted including the impact of 911uk change.

I think in general people are tightening their purse strings.

I have noticed just recently Hexagon Classics slash at least £5k off much of their stock, a dealer in Milton Keynes knock £5-6k off two 996 Turbo X50’s, 9E reduce a 996T, OPC Newcastle reduce a 997.1T by £3k, and other brands including many dealers reducing thousands from BMW M Cars including Bavarian, Lawton Brook reducing stock prices and also Munich Legends.

I didn’t like to accept it a few months ago, but it’s definately slowing. I enquired about a car that had been one of the above reduced, and asked the question ‘why the sudden reduction?’ And the replies I received were that the market is not what it was 18months ago....This is comments directly from blue chip dealerships.

I’m in no hurry to buy other than I have money burning a hole in my pocket and I envy those out making the most of the nice weather, but I will bide my time.


Good points but im not so sure. Hexagon are just overpriced by miles and their cars are there for many months, if not forever! I think some dealers are just jumping on a bandwagon, then falling off it and pricing more relaistically.
I generally look at 911V for a yardstick, there cars are not over che

The cars im looking at (997 GTS and Turbo) havent moved a drot and all offers ive made have been firmly rejected)
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991 C2S X51 powerkit PDK in racing yellow, PCCB, PDCC, PSE, Sports design kit.
EX 997.2 Carrera 4S PDK
EX 997.2 Carrera S PDK
EX 993 C2 manual in guards red
EX 997 C2 gen 2 PDK
EX 993 Targa
EX 993 Carrera 4 manual
EX 996 3.4 Cabriolet
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 14603
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keendean wrote:


....... OPC have a manual 997T 42k miles for 55k with a decent spec and a 2 year warranty, the colour is not my choice. But with negotiation, this price could be reduced also.



Where Question

The cheapest three OPC cars I can find are all Tiptronics and start with a 46k miler for £59k.
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ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 14603
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spongebob squarepants wrote:


The cars im looking at (997 GTS and Turbo) havent moved a drot and all offers ive made have been firmly rejected)



I'm not surprised. Obviously I don't know what cars are actually selling for but I do know for a fact that asking prices have gone up steadily in the last couple of months.

Some cars have been on the market for a while and one or two have been reduced. My take is that these were either overpriced in the first place and/or don't stack up when details such as service history, spec and current condition are scrutinised.
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ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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keendean
Silverstone


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Posts: 135
Location: Cambs


PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T8 wrote:
keendean wrote:


....... OPC have a manual 997T 42k miles for 55k with a decent spec and a 2 year warranty, the colour is not my choice. But with negotiation, this price could be reduced also.



Where Question

The cheapest three OPC cars I can find are all Tiptronics and start with a 46k miler for £59k.



Belfast

http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-customer/ipl/details/details.ipl?md5=6da876c9934d1f5230dd4a51ceee4534&url=uk
 
  
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jotaking
Hockenheim


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 639



PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keendean wrote:
But with negotiation, this price could be reduced also.


In my experience, you have more chance extracting a hens tooth from a unicorn than getting any significant discount on an OPC car.

That said, I am not part of the Illuminati, Landed Gentry or the Cheshire set.
 
  
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spongebob squarepants
Reims


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 4177
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair for my C4S I negotiated 1.5k, which I thought was ok from an OPC.
Ive bought from OPC Belfast in the past, there cars always seem to be a few K cheaper than the mainlland. That turbo looks a cracking buy, if it wasnt blue it would be heading for my garage!
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991 C2S X51 powerkit PDK in racing yellow, PCCB, PDCC, PSE, Sports design kit.
EX 997.2 Carrera 4S PDK
EX 997.2 Carrera S PDK
EX 993 C2 manual in guards red
EX 997 C2 gen 2 PDK
EX 993 Targa
EX 993 Carrera 4 manual
EX 996 3.4 Cabriolet
 
  
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keendean
Silverstone


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Posts: 135
Location: Cambs


PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I negotiated on a car I bought a few months back from OPC. Depends on a lot of variables of course. Just to note was circa 2k and I also had a short shift kit fitted for £110 supplied. This was a gen 2 C4S.

If the turbo was grey, I’d of left a deposit today Smile
 
  
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Main Force Patrol
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 292
Location: Wirral - The cold North


PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just run an errand out in the car....
The speedo just turned 17,000, it was a symmetrical moment !

Bank just phoned and called in my loans and mortgage, apparently they had a tracker on the car, the drop in value spooked the market and I’m now homeless and bankrupt Sad

Only part of this post is true Question
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Porsche 911 997 Turbo Aerokit in Guards Red - With more extras than a fat man ordering his curry

Lotus Elise 111r - Few extras, lucky to get a steering wheel, but boy what a go kart it is
 
  
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jotaking
Hockenheim


Joined: 01 Jun 2012
Posts: 639



PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear that MFP

You need one of these.
 



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keendean
Silverstone


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
Posts: 135
Location: Cambs


PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It sold, I was deliberating over the colour and it had over revs in RR3, it took all day to get the video and it looks better than I thought. Now sold. Snooze you loose as they say frustrated

Last edited by keendean on Thu May 24, 2018 2:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Main Force Patrol
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 10 Dec 2017
Posts: 292
Location: Wirral - The cold North


PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jotaking wrote:
Sorry to hear that MFP

You need one of these.


Fantastic - I shall move in tonight, what a relief thumbsup
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Lotus Elise 111r - Few extras, lucky to get a steering wheel, but boy what a go kart it is
 
  
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spongebob squarepants
Reims


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 4177
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Main Force Patrol wrote:
Just run an errand out in the car....
The speedo just turned 17,000, it was a symmetrical moment !

Bank just phoned and called in my loans and mortgage, apparently they had a tracker on the car, the drop in value spooked the market and I’m now homeless and bankrupt Sad

Only part of this post is true Question


Lol the only way is up for that puppy, thats my kind of mileage worship worship worship worship worship worship worship worship
_________________
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991 C2S X51 powerkit PDK in racing yellow, PCCB, PDCC, PSE, Sports design kit.
EX 997.2 Carrera 4S PDK
EX 997.2 Carrera S PDK
EX 993 C2 manual in guards red
EX 997 C2 gen 2 PDK
EX 993 Targa
EX 993 Carrera 4 manual
EX 996 3.4 Cabriolet
 
  
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