Joined: 14 Apr 2013 Posts: 3433 Location: North East England
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:33 pm Post subject: Turbocharger upgrades
Anyone got any useful links which provide information on the latest turbocharger updates/options?
Turbocharging has come a long way over the past 10 years by the looks of it, I'm currently running K16s with a billet compressor wheel and am thinking of upgrading again now my engine is built.
I know I could ring 9e or ES etc but I would like to learn for myself and thus make an informed choice.
So, how does one make such a choice? Where do you get your information from to guide the decision?
FYI I want to retain as much low down boost as possible to retain drivability. I've been looking at the Tial A3071's but I may be way out and tech may well have moved on. _________________ 996 turbo - slightly modified....
986 S - usually in pieces: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=112626
rdodger Newbie
Joined: 08 Apr 2018 Posts: 5 Location: Cheshire
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:44 pm Post subject:
I would talk to a Turbo specialist like Turbo Technics who can advise and build a turbo to suit what you want.
RPU, what did we say........? _________________ “Forum signatures with quotes from famous people is pretentious beyond compare” Abraham Lincoln
997.1 turbo
Ex 996.2 turbo, 996.1 C2
sim996 Trainee
Joined: 05 Aug 2017 Posts: 76
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:22 pm Post subject:
Lol at the EFR series, I'm not sure what's compatible.
Is your built engine 3.8?
ragpicker Paul Ricard
Joined: 14 Apr 2013 Posts: 3433 Location: North East England
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:52 pm Post subject:
New997buyer wrote:
RPU, what did we say........?
I know, I know....
But I think I've got a bad case of turbotwistitis. Maybe I should see a turbotwistitologist to find the cure?....
However there's a few on here with a similar condition and not one of them has been cured!
@sim996 - just kept it 3.6 but fully forged _________________ 996 turbo - slightly modified....
986 S - usually in pieces: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=112626
MisterCorn Zolder
Joined: 08 Jan 2011 Posts: 5753 Location: Nottingham, England
You know how it works by now. You look for bigger turbos, then bigger injectors, then intercoolers, then stronger clutch, then intake pipework, then fuel pipes and pumps, then even bigger injectors, then stronger gearbox, then even bigger turbos, then maf delete and better air filter, then y-pipe and throttle, then driveshafts.......
These things are worse than crack.
MC
911tom Kyalami
Joined: 22 May 2012 Posts: 1869 Location: Buckinghamshire
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:35 pm Post subject:
I think tial alpha 3071’s are likely the best way forward for you. You’ll likely need a bigger fuel pump assembly than you currently have... alternatively (or in addition) to different turbos you could try different fuels or meth. _________________ 996 Turbo - Link to my 3.8L turbo build thread
2011 Cayenne
2009 Ariel Atom 3 Supercharged
350Bhp astra van for work
ragpicker Paul Ricard
Joined: 14 Apr 2013 Posts: 3433 Location: North East England
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:53 pm Post subject:
Cheers Tom, what makes you say that about the Tials?
What blowers are you running and how did you decide?
Funny you should mention meth, I know I've been reluctant but I have been thinking about it recently. Its the failsafes which concern me, or rather the reliability of them. I've got big enough injectors to be going down the meth route and as its an 'occasion' car rather than a daily its definitely an option and one that I'm coming round to.
_________________ “Forum signatures with quotes from famous people is pretentious beyond compare” Abraham Lincoln
997.1 turbo
Ex 996.2 turbo, 996.1 C2
911tom Kyalami
Joined: 22 May 2012 Posts: 1869 Location: Buckinghamshire
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:09 pm Post subject:
I went with tial alpha 3076’s. If you want to keep a lower down spool the 3071’s are a fine choice. I went with the tials as they are easy to fit. They bolt on to standard manifolds and exhausts. Not sure of any other comparable choices, not to say there are not any. Definitely have a chat with your tuner. _________________ 996 Turbo - Link to my 3.8L turbo build thread
2011 Cayenne
2009 Ariel Atom 3 Supercharged
350Bhp astra van for work
Dammit Barcelona
Joined: 23 Sep 2016 Posts: 1277
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:14 pm Post subject:
Meth, 100 shot, single HX60
apollokre1d Magny-Cours
Joined: 06 Nov 2012 Posts: 2568 Location: United Kingdom
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:52 am Post subject: Re: Turbocharger upgrades
ragpicker wrote:
Anyone got any useful links which provide information on the latest turbocharger updates/options?
Turbocharging has come a long way over the past 10 years by the looks of it, I'm currently running K16s with a billet compressor wheel and am thinking of upgrading again now my engine is built.
I know I could ring 9e or ES etc but I would like to learn for myself and thus make an informed choice.
So, how does one make such a choice? Where do you get your information from to guide the decision?
I am going to have a chat to Ken at 9e about this next week but I saw on social media that ESmotors have just designed a new 71mm turbine & compressor wheel which they say is working really well so worth speaking to them. Not sure if it will help with lower down drive-ability or if it just increases overall performance but I'm willing to bet it is the latter.
I would like to run meth too but share your concerns on the lack of fail-safes given my ltd knowledge on it. AdeD has been running it for a while though with no issues. _________________ Black 997 9e Turbo Manual
Black 997 C4S Manual - Sold
I woud say tial alpha 3071's on a 3.6. Spool really quick and with minimal lag. 3076's are a little laggy but keep the car in the rev range and all good
I would say with a 3.6 motor its gotta be 3071's for fast road use
I only say this as i have experienced both turbos
However i have not experienced much else other than my K24, K16 hybrids and far from an expert ! Probably no help at all lol! _________________ 2002 996tt x50 manual in bassat black - 9eXX
911tom Kyalami
Joined: 22 May 2012 Posts: 1869 Location: Buckinghamshire
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:44 pm Post subject:
Faried is Joel’s car a 3.6 or 3.8? _________________ 996 Turbo - Link to my 3.8L turbo build thread
2011 Cayenne
2009 Ariel Atom 3 Supercharged
350Bhp astra van for work
Joel’s car has the smaller turbos as he did not want additional lag. Uses car for fast road hooning _________________ 2002 996tt x50 manual in bassat black - 9eXX
ragpicker Paul Ricard
Joined: 14 Apr 2013 Posts: 3433 Location: North East England
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:19 pm Post subject:
Thanks for the input lads!
Faried, I'd say you've got exactly the experience I'm looking for, thanks for your input!
Would I need a different fuel system than a single walbro if running the 3071s? Also, what kind of power does a pair produce on a 3.6?
I've also been looking at aquarist and different fuels, but where can you source the fuels from? The only place I've found is E85 from demontweaks at £100 for 25l!
At present then I'm leaning towards the 3071s, although I keep wondering how much the lag issue is overcome by retarding the timing lower down..
Its a shame you can't sample before you buy!
_________________ 996 turbo - slightly modified....
986 S - usually in pieces: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=112626
I would say you will require dual walboro, esp when they come on boost at the higher levels. I personally had to have a full custom fuel system but going for big bhp so a little different from your application possibly
I know Joels car on 3071's is well in excess of 800 useable, IE no race map, special fuel etc - every day reliability etc
I always run on Shell VPower and this is what the car is mapped to currently and what 9e reccomend i put in if possible. Can run 109 if needed tho. However i am more than happy with Shell V pump fuel
I run aquamist for cooling and it REALLY keeps the IATs down when going for it
NOTE - Air starvation, we had some issues when really going for it on full boost and had to rethink some of the intake system to accomodate the demand
Being up front, the lag for me is nothing really, I just love the utter grunt that almost makes you scream.... christ you just need to hold on and before you know it, warp speed is there. It comes on so fast and stong, it really is scarey, any gear any speed as long as you are aware of where the boost will come and you are sensible with the RPM
I required custom drive shafts, LSD, intake pipework, fuel rail, quite a few modified bits and bobs etc. Anything above 800-850 bhp and you are risking the gearbox without associated works
You ever down South, you are welcome to let me know
Try before you buy --- ummm but i dont think i wil ever be satisfied !
I love the fact that the car can both surprise me and ***** me up in equal mesaure. Some people are actually scared of the car, or maybe its my driving ability LOL
Goodluck _________________ 2002 996tt x50 manual in bassat black - 9eXX
911tom Kyalami
Joined: 22 May 2012 Posts: 1869 Location: Buckinghamshire
Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:12 pm Post subject:
I went for a twin Walbro system too. It was a stage 3 kit from Silly Rabbit;
It is American so quality is 90% there but bits were not so good. The pump assembly and fuel rails were fairly nicely made and well thought out. Some of the electrical parts were not so good. My kit was missing a bit that attached the fuel level sender in the tank. The chap was adamant that I had it and refused to send it to me so Fearnsport had to fabricate something. Not great service considering the cost. Also the pipe fittings and lines were not up to Fearnsport standard so they were skipped. Matt said they looked like they had come from the hose pipe department in B&Q. When he showed me the parts he wanted to use instead it was an easy decision. To be fair same thing happened with the lines that came with the Tial turbos
When you start chasing more power AWD is no longer an option. You really do need to take the front diff out and grow a pair of big balls. In fairness RWD is SO much better and not the handful you would think it should be. With this in mind if we had known at the time I ordered the silly rabbit kit we would have run lines straight out of the bottom of the tank to an inline pump. Far cheaper and cleaner. You would need the tunnel space for this which is gained with the diff removed.
As for fuel. I have brought some meth and deionised water from here;
MS109 is more expensive than standard Vpower but you would likely run a blend with Vpower and only for special occasions. I am sure ES could give you a separate map that you could load with your Cobb device?
As Faried mentions meth injection gives a better solution in many ways as it also offers a huge advantage of extra cooling. You do not need to use the injection for massive fueling gains all the time. Again with a separate map you could use a 25% blend day to day for the cooling benefits and save the richer blend for race day. This is easier for me of course as I can swap maps with my cruise control stalk rather than having to physically load a different map.
Also I could be wrong as I have not researched E85 in much detail but I am fairly sure your fuel system has to be designed for it. I am talking injectors, filter, cooler, lines, pump....
Faried mentions intake. I am sure you told me your car already runs a maffless tune but if you are running stock pipework then you will likely need to change that to benefit from the bigger blowers. You will want cones closer to the turbos as has been done many times. Then you start to move on to intercoolers etc.... It never ends but you know that _________________ 996 Turbo - Link to my 3.8L turbo build thread
2011 Cayenne
2009 Ariel Atom 3 Supercharged
350Bhp astra van for work
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