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Pickse
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 20 Jul 2013
Posts: 305
Location: Fleet, Hants


PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:54 pm    Post subject: 996T Age takes it's toll Reply with quote

Some may recall the trouble I had last year with corroded Tiptronic pipes causing me to breakdown in Belgium.
I wanted to avoid the experience of an unreliable car this year and so booked the car in to give it a good check over. Expecting to drop the engine and fix a couple of brake lines and weld those pesky bonded pipe joints in an effort to enhance reliability.
Below is a summary of things found. It makes pretty scary reading for a car I thought was in generally good nick.

----------------------
Bank 2 turbo charger has a hole in the centre housing, and Bank 1 heavily corroded. Also the manifold to turbo fixings and turbo heatshields are heavily corroded – See attached pictures
Nearside front outer CV Boot split. The 3 others are perished
Brake pipes from front splitter block including one across front axle heavily corroded
Underbody rear brake pipes heavily corroded
Coolant leak from underbody hoses
Gearbox end gaskets, and sump leaking ATF
Front damper bodies heavily corroded and play in offside when wheel on full droop
Both rear toe control arms have play in the ball joints
Front lower control arm bushes separating from arms
A wheel alignment would be required after the above three items
Slight oil leaks from around the chain housings, and chain guide pin washers
Scavenger pump lower unions heavily corroded
Fuel cap seal perished
Offside reverse light not working
Offside front wheel arch liner missing some fixings and insecure
Right hand spoiler ram leaking oil
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Pickse
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2003 Arctic Silver 996 Turbo Tiptronic S
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ragpicker
Paul Ricard


Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 3428
Location: North East England


PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure its no consolation but I've replaced every item on your list (plus many, many more) during the ownership of my turbo.

Not cheap cars to run, but what 15-20 year old supercar is?

Luckily I do a bit myself but things like the engine rebuild I had done, that was done by someone who knows what they're doing Thumb
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986 S - usually in pieces: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=112626
 
  
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Fastlane
Monza


Joined: 05 Mar 2017
Posts: 236
Location: Truro


PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is quite a list, but as has been said an old supercar is still a supercar, with supercar running costs.

I imagine you can work your way through some of those fixing/sourcing parts yourself? Has the garage provided a breakdown of cost to rectify each area?

Good luck!
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2001 Zanzibar Red 996.1 C4
Aerokit; Sunroof delete; Sport Design wheels in GT Silver; M030; Sports seats; Carbon handbrake and gear knob; 3 spoke steering wheel; Top Gear manifolds, Sports Sound silencers & 200 cell cats; 997 GT3 shifter; Low temperature thermostat, Sprint Booster; Alpine SPG-10C2 speaker upgrade.

Past:
1992 Zermatt Silver 964 turbo
1991 Midnight Blue 964 turbo
1994 Guards Red 968 Sport
1987 Baltic Blue 928 S4 auto
 
  
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Pickse
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 20 Jul 2013
Posts: 305
Location: Fleet, Hants


PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Andrew, some consolation.
To be fair in four years all I have 'had' to do is the water pump and the Tip pipes. Other than that just servicing.

You're right Fastlane some maintenance is only to be expected on a car of this age and complexity. But I was surprised the Turbo was rotted to the extent of having a hole in it!

Some of it will wait. Apparently the control arms & dampers are good for a while yet and I can manage to replace the filler cap and rev lamp bulb myself.

The garage did provide a price for each job. I'm just waiting on an aggregate price to do what I think are the important things now.
So two turbos, brake pipes, tip case leak and engine drop to access bonded hoses for welding and a replacement header tank.

Hopefully that will get me to Spa and back in May without AA assistance.

Still a brilliant car tho, and I'm still lovin' it Cloud 9
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2003 Arctic Silver 996 Turbo Tiptronic S
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kas750
Estoril


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 3711
Location: Chorley lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty standard fare on a car of that age so you shouldn't feel hard done to. Thumb
 
  
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New997buyer
Yas Marina


Joined: 17 Oct 2010
Posts: 8504



PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not a great list and will eat somewhat into any increase in value in the last couple of years. But on the upside the fundamental parts are okay. And what a machine it’ll be once you’ve had that work done Thumb

Surely a sign too you need to drive it more? Grin
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997.1 turbo
Ex 996.2 turbo, 996.1 C2
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 13714
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouch Steve. Surprised

Hopefully you'll be able to spread the pain over time and enjoy using the car in the best months of the year.

When it's all done you'll be Very Happy for another few years.

Enjoy Spa thumbsup
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ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3622



PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The turbo ain't a budget car. I've always been quick to highlight that fact.
And as they are getting on in age, they come to need attention and money spending.

What I'm wondering is why such items were not highlighted at each annual service?

I've put mine through a annual service at OPC Chester during my ownership and they go through it with a fine tooth comb and highlight anything that it needs doing. I then tell them to put anything right. I also use my local Indy to take some labour and inspect the car to highlight anything he thinks it needs doing and put it right.

Hopefully, I avoid a big list like the one shown and the costs on an ongoing basis are manageable instead of a service with £3k of advisory extras.

But of course some might see that as OPC or indy finding extra work.
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snb993
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 11 Mar 2010
Posts: 291



PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As above - mine has had all of those replaced in my 14 years of ownership so pretty standard i think as well

Gives a great opportunity to update/upgrade without resorting to too much man-maths! Grin
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996T - Cobalt blue, K24's, GT2 I/C's, Techart SSK, Manthey KWv3, RS engine mounts, Europipe, GT3RS 6 pots, 997T discs/RS29's all round etc
964 C4 - GP white, 993 C4 gearbox/front diff, Wayne remap, Bilstein B6's / H&R springs, polybushed, Cup 1's, RS SSK, gutted cat etc
993C4 - sold
928S4 - sold
 
  
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Osh
Magny-Cours


Joined: 19 Nov 2012
Posts: 2669
Location: Bristol


PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Pickse - did a lot of that list in my first year; ouch indeed.

As others have said - once done, what a great car it will be and it will be another 10-15 years before needing doing again.. Thumb


Osh
 
  
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gilessav
Monza


Joined: 04 Jan 2013
Posts: 235
Location: Oxford UK


PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouch but atleast you know what now needs doing and when.

Having just had the brake lines effectively all replaced on the C4S I can testify that is not a trivial piece of work, the ones running across the front of the car in particular......bits are cheap, labour is not so hopefully you can negotiate a discount if they are pricing all the needed jobs now!
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Marky911
Barcelona


Joined: 04 Jun 2009
Posts: 1379



PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ouch. As said, never nice news but that's what these cars cost to run.
Every hobby costs money I suppose.

I do always have to smirk when someone (I don't mean you here Pickse) pipes up about owning a 996 for a few years and it has needed nothing but servicing.
All that means is that they either A) haven't used it at all or B) Haven't had a good look around their car.

My 996 is 20 years old this year. I costs a lot. People who don't spend gradually, either end up with a big bill one day or they pass it on to the next owner.

Again as said you can source parts etc and do some of the easier jobs yourself. If you can't diy then unfortunately these cars cost a fortune to keep nice.

I shudder to think how much I'd have in mine if I gave every job to a specialist, bodyshop, interior guy etc.
 
  
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markturner1960
Monza


Joined: 26 Nov 2016
Posts: 177
Location: London UK

2003 Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh dear, that's a long list....this is why I keep the underside of my car spotless and if it does get dirty, clean it straight away. I have had some mild stick about it, usual stuff about cars being for driving, not cleaning etc, but it still never fails to amaze me that people spend ages cleaning the paintwork and polishing it, yet it never occurs to them to do the same to the underside. Most of what you list would have been apparent long ago, or maybe avoided, if the underside was cleaned and protected regularly. I know it's not easy if you don't have access to a ramp etc, but you should try and make an underbody clean and lube a regular thing to keep these things at bay...
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Pickse
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 20 Jul 2013
Posts: 305
Location: Fleet, Hants


PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the thoughts guys.
And don't worry Kas, I'm not feeling hard done by. Didn't mean for it to come across that way.
To be fair given what I could see, even with the undertrays in place, I was concerned by the apparent level of corrosion visible, hence the inspection. So I'm not entirely surprised but as Chesire911 notes, I would have expected some comments from the annual services (Gearbox case leak excepted as this was noted).
As you say Paul, any apparent market value gain over the last few years is eroded but it's only a profit when you realise it, right? And I don't see me selling for some time yet!
Man Maths I can do, thanks snb993 but for the moment I'm going to put it all back as standard to make a reliable and enjoyable car. Can't deny I was hoping the turbos would last till an upgrade was possible but the timings not right.
In hindsight it seems I may have just got away with it for a few years or was unaware, unlike Osh, of what needed doing. Guess I took the lack of reports from service as a bill of good health.
But it will be a better car for the money spent and despite the cost, which is considerable as it's coming in one lump, I think it's an investment. I would not be happy with an unreliable car. Nor one I knew was not as good as it could be.
Anyway all done in a couple of weeks, then to Spa. Cheers Terry, thumbsup
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2003 Arctic Silver 996 Turbo Tiptronic S
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Robertb
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 6462
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sort of a long list, looks like a 'worst case scenario' from a gimlet-eyed mechanic who's been asked to report on anything amiss. Some of the items are easy wins, like CV boot, fuel filler seal, light, wheelarch fasteners missing.

I bet the whole lot will cost less to sort than a routine cambelt service for an F355 that's gone nowhere.
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Ex: '02 C4S Coupe, '96 993 Targa, '88 Carrera Sport Coupe
 
  
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cheshire911
Estoril


Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 3622



PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cost less than £1200 for all that?
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wasz
Indianapolis


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2301


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marky911 wrote:
Again as said you can source parts etc and do some of the easier jobs yourself. If you can't diy then unfortunately these cars cost a fortune to keep nice.

I shudder to think how much I'd have in mine if I gave every job to a specialist, bodyshop, interior guy etc.


Its exactly the same for ANY 15+ year old car. I don't know why people are so surprised that Porsche is any different.

Theres a reason why you don't see very many cars on the road that are over 15 years, its because the labour to fix them is more than they are worth.

People go misty eyed over their Porsche and shell out for it (me included). Of course it helps that its worth more than £1k.
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Steering Rack Hard Lines | Air Con Compressor / System
 
  
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Paul_911
Montreal


Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 518



PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way we treat are Turbo is that we roughly take on one 'big job' each year alongside its annual service. A couple of years ago we overhauled the brake pipes followed by the suspension and then last year we had the Turbos refurbished along with all the exhaust brackets etc which shed a couple of grand very easy but it was worth doing - I was always very conscious of being faced with a list like the above - all you can do is work through it. The good thing about these car rising in value is that we all free a little more comfortable about investing in them - it's easier to spend £2K on a £35-40K car than a £25K one if that makes sense - it was the man maths I used anyway.

As others have said there is most definitely a premium to the up keep of a Turbo over and above a normally aspirated car.
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Present: '01 996 Turbo, '03 996 Carrera 4 'S', '99 Boxster 'S', '17 520D M Sport, '89 Mini 30
 
  
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Frenchmeister
Suzuka


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 1159
Location: Beautiful Cumbria.

2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pickse,when are you at Spa, I am going to the classic over the weekend of the 20th ( in my BMW)
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Pickse
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 20 Jul 2013
Posts: 305
Location: Fleet, Hants


PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frenchmeister wrote:
Pickse,when are you at Spa, I am going to the classic over the weekend of the 20th ( in my BMW)


Same here, we're going out on Friday the 18th with Longers (Fasttrack Tours) staying at Hotel Verviers.
I'll pm you my mobile so we can stay in touch.

I'll also bring a mirror on a stick so everyone can admire my new turbos Laughing
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