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TrevS
Newbie


Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 22



PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:52 pm    Post subject: £50k 911 - which one? Reply with quote

Hi all

I've decided that I want a Porsche 911 as I currently have a 1967 Jaguar E-type S1 that is just not getting the use it deserves and as I have a young son I’d love to be able to find a car that is more usable with the family and the 911 seems to offer everything I currently want in a sports car.

The problem I am having is knowing what 911 is the one to go for. I initially decided on a 997.1 C2S, looking around £30-35k as they seemed to offer everything I am looking for and seem like good value. However I’ve been doing some research and after reading a number of threads about IMS failures I started to think maybe I should raise my budget and look at a 997.2 C2S.

However good 997.2’s seem to be commanding strong money at the moment and for similar money it puts them pretty close 997.1 turbos. So the question I have is do 997.1 turbos also suffer from IMS failure and with a budget of up to £50k what 911 would you go for?

Thanks

Trev
 
  
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RobIpswichUK
Kyalami


Joined: 27 Aug 2010
Posts: 1972
Location: Ipswich (at a guess!)

1994 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you've enjoyed the older car (i.e. the E Type) give a decent aircooled car a consideration. Plenty around you budget.

993 C2 Coupe (IMHO - I am biased!!) and still very practical and not much difference space wise inside to the more modern water cooled cars.
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Magic919
Imola


Joined: 05 Jun 2013
Posts: 794
Location: Berkshire


PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

997 Turbos don’t suffer IMS failures. Try one and a 997.2 and see which you prefer.
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 12481
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends if you want 'modern' or old-school' driving. For me it would be 997.2 or 964/993 if you're tempted into the world of reliable air-cooled.
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TrevS
Newbie


Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 22



PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. I have considered a 993 but it would have to be a turbo bodied car as I just love the looks but that starts to add to the budget. The problem is knowing when to stop as I'd originally wanted to spent around £30k on a 997 and now I am already up to £50k so it is easy to get carried away.

I really want a car I can get and drive at any time, particularly with my 2 year old boy. I don't want to be worrying about putting miles on the car or only taking it out on dry days etc so I think a more modern 911 would be my current preference.

I think I need to try both the 997.2 C2/4S and also a 997.1 turbo to see which I prefer. I've also noticed a few 991 cars dropping into the £50k bracket and they also look quite appealing but again it's knowing where to draw the line in terms of budget.

Trev
 
  
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Boba fett
Watkins Glen


Joined: 14 May 2015
Posts: 2243



PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People I just going to say what they have mate, you need to get out a try a few.

Air, water, NA, Turbo, they are so different, some drive like tractors, some won't be as fast as you might think, and some are a Supercar in performance terms.

Only you will know whats for you. A great investigation lies ahead for you Thumb Thumb Thumb
 
  
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14053
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome Trev , as the others have said options for me would be

997.1 turbo
plusses
has the motorsport derived mezger engine
very quick even in 2018 standards
easy to modify further
wide bodied car

negatives
it will be 10/12 yrs old so over the next few years you will have to spend a few quid
steathfighter speed but will need an aftermarket exhaust to make it sound at all Porsche like, very disapointing sound when stock.
997.1 nav and entertainment is dated (but easy to fit updated aftermarket head units)

thoughts
they make excellent gradual project cars you can enjoy them now and slowly make changes which can be fun doing research and asking on here etc. they are currently only going up in price but the furure is unknown.

997.1 N/A
plusses
post 2006 has newer IMS and is no longer an issue
just turned at the bottom of the depreciation curve and slowly creeping up in price
30k ish would get you a nice car well specced saving 15/20k on a turbo or gen2
has much of the driving connected feel of the earler cars while still being reasonably modern feeling and as the turbo can be further updated tech wise.

negatives
Some cars maybe about 5% of all produced are suffering failure in the piston linings this is widely reffered to as Borescore .
it will be 10/12 yer old so you have to accept a bit dated tech wise but easily updated .
although a very reliable model it will need a bit of TLC due to its age.

thoughts
comes in RWD C2/S narrow body and AWD C4/S wide body you really need to drive both as they are very different cars in the way they handle .
track down a hartech full 6 piston rebuilt one only command a small premium over non rebuilt ones and you should have a lovely quite bullet proof car .
for me this is the sweet spot in the 911 range due to its current price for the type of car it is.

997.2
plusses
very sorted engine
quite modern tech
all of the issues of the gen1 sorted
fast fun every day car.

negatives
still quite highly priced compared to the gen1
much smoother more refined car than the gen1 (this may be a plus for many but not me)
less connected driver experience than the gen1.

thoughts
for many the gen2 is the sweet spot in the 911 range based on age tech price etc. having owned both gen1 and gen 2 cars I am not convinced the gen2 is worth a 20k premium over a hartech rebuilt gen1 but only time will tell and it is only my opinion.

finally
You really must try and drive a range of these especially if its a long term keeper (test drives easier said than done unfortunately) might be easier to get to a 911uk meet close to you and get to know the members and beg steal or borrow test drives or a run or three in a range of them .

whatever model you go for you MUST get a PPI and if a na gen1 or gen2 a Borescope and whichever model an over rev report .

very finally
find a nice car and enjoy driving it and make sure to continue to contribute on here as most of us are nice and nearly everyone bathes frequently so not an issue at meets Floor

remember there are no stupid questions we all started our 911 journey at some point knowing little or nothing about these cars.
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FZP
Indianapolis


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 2425
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think you can go wrong with a 997.1 Turbo or a 997.2. The C4S maybe the one to go for as it's got the J.Lo hips. But they're 2 different experiences for sure.
BTW Trev, if you see some "intetesting" comments come up relating to your name and the sale of a number plate in the future, it's got nothing to do with you. The gist of it that someone suggested a number plate that they had for sale at a stupid amount, read a certain way and then it became a free for all and suggested it looked more like Trev than it did what he was claiming.
Good luck with the search. Dependant on where you live you could rock up to a meet and chat to owners from here about the real world experiences of owning each of the cars above. Thumb
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14053
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FZP wrote:
I don't think you can go wrong with a 997.1 Turbo or a 997.2. The C4S maybe the one to go for as it's got the J.Lo hips. But they're 2 different experiences for sure.
BTW Trev, if you see some "intetesting" comments come up relating to your name and the sale of a number plate in the future, it's got nothing to do with you. The gist of it that someone suggested a number plate that they had for sale at a stupid amount, read a certain way and then it became a free for all and suggested it looked more like Trev than it did what he was claiming.
Good luck with the search. Dependant on where you live you could rock up to a meet and chat to owners from here about the real world experiences of owning each of the cars above. Thumb


Frank , well said you just know the TREVOR number plate thread will be mentioned Grin Grin Thumb
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Monkeynutz
Nürburgring


Joined: 05 Oct 2016
Posts: 439
Location: Peterborough


PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi
It's a tough decision because for that money Porsche wise you can't go far wrong but there's a lot of them to choose from. I went around the houses for months firstly considering a M4 to a new 718S Cayman, then a 991 C4S and eventually went for a 997.2 C4S. I drove the 997 and within 5 mins dismissed the considerably more expensive 991.

I certainly see the appeal of the Turbos but for me the C4S is more than enough to entertain me and keep me on my toes trying not to get nicked. You do have to drive these cars to be able to make any decision. Enjoy, finding the right car is half the fun Smile
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jkeith
Montreal


Joined: 22 Jan 2010
Posts: 538
Location: Jesmond


PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday, I helped a friend to find a very nice 997.1 turbo, 2008 car with Porsche warranty, private sale, just over £50k with 45k miles and full service history.
Excellent value, minimum risk and maximum pleasure!

It's a nice problem to solve but only the buyer can decide.

Cheers, Keith.
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2005 BMW 325 M sport
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NickHappy
Nürburgring


Joined: 27 Apr 2014
Posts: 396
Location: W.Sussex


PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jkeith wrote:
Yesterday, I helped a friend to find a very nice 997.1 turbo, 2008 car with Porsche warranty, private sale, just over £50k with 45k miles and full service history.
Excellent value, minimum risk and maximum pleasure!

It's a nice problem to solve but only the buyer can decide.

Cheers, Keith.


Nice find, manual or a tip??
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TrevS
Newbie


Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Posts: 22



PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies guys, it's really got me thinking now and I can't wait to start the hunt. I am based in the midlands, near Rugby Warwickshire so please point me in the direction of any local meets.

Some of the points that Phil mentioned got me thinking about what I want from the car and having something I can modify/tinker with is quite appealing as I like the idea of being able to update and personalise the car to my taste over time. I have to say a 997.1 turbo is standing out at the moment but I will get myself down to a few local specialists and start seeing what's what.

Trev
 
  
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14053
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrevS wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys, it's really got me thinking now and I can't wait to start the hunt. I am based in the midlands, near Rugby Warwickshire so please point me in the direction of any local meets.

Some of the points that Phil mentioned got me thinking about what I want from the car and having something I can modify/tinker with is quite appealing as I like the idea of being able to update and personalise the car to my taste over time. I have to say a 997.1 turbo is standing out at the moment but I will get myself down to a few local specialists and start seeing what's what.

Trev


Good to hear Trev you starting to narrow your criteria it will help as there are so many varients with differeing spec that you end up just getting stressed looking at all thats available lol . remember very little cant be retro fitted or added or aftermarket options avail so spec should not be high on your list . for me it would be do I want manual or auto, a wide or narrow body, turbo is AWD wide body and decide on top three colours ,then its all about history servicing etc.remember with these cars especially a turbo very low mileage is as bad as very high mileage as they like and need to be driven 7k pa is considered ave for mileage in a 911 so finding a 2007 with a little under ,say 50/60k would be a nice place you know it will have been used and enjoyed without sitting around or been driven round the Earth .
your sweet spot would be finding one thats done 7k pa for the first 7 years of its life and then 4k for the last 3 years , that would tell me it had be owned driven and enjoyed by its first owner/s in a way they should be ,it will then have passed into the hands of an enthusiast who would be more value mileage consious knowing they were starting to go up in value he would have done a few bits that needed doing but still drove it enough to not be a big issue like a car that only does 1000/1500 miles a year could be.
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 14448
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

£50k is a great budget to have and I think you've narrowed your short-list down to the right three.

Which you go for can only be down to you and what you want for your own type of use/driving requirements.

At the risk of repeating what others have said ... my 2p worth follows.

A 991C2 would obviously be the newest car and the C2 variant of all models is seen as the purist Carrera to drive. However in 991 guise many feel that it has become more a GT car than a sports car. It's easily the most spacious and up-to-date inside. Although it's narrow bodied it has, to my eyes, the perfect 911 stance. The slightly larger body size is quickly forgotten on the open road.

The Gen2 997S is seen as the sweet-spot of the 997 Carrera range giving most of the GTS benefits without the premium price tag. The 4S has the wide body, beautiful rear strip and a lot of extra kit to go along with the relatively bullet proof engine it shares with it's slimmer sister.

The Gen1 997 Turbo will be the oldest car and the main attraction will be the way it delivers the extra performance it has over the Carreras. The kudos of having the turbo script on the rear, the tremendous torque of the engine and the flexibility of the VTG turbos themselves are the bonus.
If it's an outright performance car you're after there can only be one choice.
The stats only tell half the story. Anyone who has experienced the difference from inside the car will be able to tell the other half. Very Happy

I love my 997.1 Turbo but wouldn't necessarily recommend it as the best choice. The extra performance isn't readily usable on UK roads which can make it frustrating to drive. When the extra power can be used it can be tiresome to constantly be braking heavily as bends come up so quickly. The Carreras have enough performance to be as much fun 90% of the time and many prefer the way they sound.

Financially it's difficult to call. At £50k a standard 991C2 will still be depreciating and will continue to do so until it hits top 997C2 prices. A £50k 997.2S now is a car that will have cost a bit less 2 years ago and a £50k 997.1 Turbo is one that you could have bought for £45k 3 years ago. None will lose you much money over 2-5 years but I doubt that any will make you any.

Happy decision making Thumb
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jkeith
Montreal


Joined: 22 Jan 2010
Posts: 538
Location: Jesmond


PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickHappy wrote:
jkeith wrote:
Yesterday, I helped a friend to find a very nice 997.1 turbo, 2008 car with Porsche warranty, private sale, just over £50k with 45k miles and full service history.
Excellent value, minimum risk and maximum pleasure!

It's a nice problem to solve but only the buyer can decide.

Cheers, Keith.


Nice find, manual or a tip??


It is a tip, basalt black with black interior and some nice optional extras. The hub bells need a paint and the wheel centre caps are a lttle crusty, that's all!

Cheers, Keith
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2005 996 GT3
1986 Grand Prix White 3.2 lhd whaletail
2005 BMW 325 M sport
1986 944 turbo (sold)
968 Clubsport (sold)
964 (sold)
 
  
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Zingari
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 12481
Location: Cheshire

1993 Porsche 964 Anniversary

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the owner of Hexagon Classics, the 997.2 is the best 911 to date and will be the one to keep given VW got involved in the 991 Dont know
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James M-S
Montreal


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 617
Location: Derby

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TrevS wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys, it's really got me thinking now and I can't wait to start the hunt. I am based in the midlands, near Rugby Warwickshire so please point me in the direction of any local meets

Trev


Welcome to the forum Trev.

The Independent Porsche Enthusiasts Club (TIPEC) meet on the first Wednesday each month from 6:30 at the Packe Arms in Hoton, near Loughborough. We’re a friendly bunch.

There is a Facebook group for east mids region.

Also;
Porsche club GB (PCGB) meet at the coopers Arms near Derby (can’t remember what night). There is also a meet sometimes at the Bulls Head in Meriden, nearer to you. (Again, can’t remember details, some guys from here go along)

Hope you make it to one of them Thumb

James
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FZP
Indianapolis


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 2425
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
FZP wrote:
I don't think you can go wrong with a 997.1 Turbo or a 997.2. The C4S maybe the one to go for as it's got the J.Lo hips. But they're 2 different experiences for sure.
BTW Trev, if you see some "intetesting" comments come up relating to your name and the sale of a number plate in the future, it's got nothing to do with you. The gist of it that someone suggested a number plate that they had for sale at a stupid amount, read a certain way and then it became a free for all and suggested it looked more like Trev than it did what he was claiming.
Good luck with the search. Dependant on where you live you could rock up to a meet and chat to owners from here about the real world experiences of owning each of the cars above. Thumb


Frank , well said you just know the TREVOR number plate thread will be mentioned Grin Grin Thumb

Its been a while since we've had a chancer with a "unique and valuable reg" pop up here. Grin
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Robertb
Long Beach


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 6529
Location: South Oxfordshire

2002 Porsche 996 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A nice 996 4S, Hartech 3.9 rebuild, and £10k at least in the bank... Very Happy
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