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996 C4S replacement concerns!

BChivs

Well-known member
Joined
2 Aug 2017
Messages
366
As some may know I had a few issues with my last 996C4S which meant the car was returned to the dealer.
I know there are a high percentage of owners that have a long pleasant ownership and remain unscathed, but I unfortunately experienced first hand the C4S pitfalls which has now put me off.
Trouble is I loved that car...I instantly recognised why there was a following for these and also why the brand as a whole attracts so many enthusiasts. I would love to own another, and I have also found a very nice car which is a low mileage, one owner car in Seal Grey. IMS/RMS/Clutch are all new but there is nothing stopping the dreaded bore score setting in 6 months to a year down the line...fact is it could happen at anytime.
I am contemplating a move away from Porsche...I've always loved BMW and am considering a low mileage 1M coupe, but I am still drawn to the 4S in question.
I don't think there are any warranties that really cover these things, only if purchase from a company like 911V or Harbour, and I think the Hartech plan would be too expensive initially to consider.
What are people's thoughts?
 
Didn't think bore score was too much to worry about on the M96 engines. If the rest (IMS/RMS etc) has been done, buy, drive, enjoy and get what you didn't get out of the last owning experience.

1M is a great car, but I don't think it is a sports coupe (just a fast beemer - don't flame me, I loved test driving one, but wouldn't pay the asking price for it!)

Even if something like the Hartech maintenance is off the radar, just keep putting whatever you can away, and enjoy a car, that has got to be close to zero depreciation, for a few years.
 
RobIpswichUK said:
Didn't think bore score was too much to worry about on the M96 engines. If the rest (IMS/RMS etc) has been done, buy, drive, enjoy and get what you didn't get out of the last owning experience.

1M is a great car, but I don't think it is a sports coupe (just a fast beemer - don't flame me, I loved test driving one, but wouldn't pay the asking price for it!)

Even if something like the Hartech maintenance is off the radar, just keep putting whatever you can away, and enjoy a car, that has got to be close to zero depreciation, for a few years.

My last one had bore score and after speaking with a few in the trade including Hartech I think it is more common than many believe. I wish it wasn't!😔
Mine was using copious amounts of oil, fluctuating oil pressure and smoking from one bank only. Part of me thinks you need to factor the cost of a rebuild if you lan keeping long term.
 
I can see why your are reluctant to purchase another C4s, once bitten and all that...

You had a very bad experience and it would put anyone off repeating it especially if the same thing happened again.

Having said that I have had a few BMW M cars and while they are really nice fast cars and sound great when revved to the limit. They do not have the same driver experience that a 911 has. Once the initial honeymoon period wears off I think you may feel a bit underwhelmed and that itch for a 911 will still remain.

I bought my latest car 18 months ago and knew that I would have to spend some cash on it to get it up to standard. I also knew about the pit falls of IMS,RMS and bore scoring. But for me it had to be another 911 and I will drive it and enjoy it.

Ok there is always the possibility that it may suffer from bore scoring and at 73K miles it could be imminent but I'm not going to worry about it. Not because I have pots of money(which I don't) but because I could walk in front of a bus tomorrow and be brown bread but at least I had the opportunity to drive a car I truely desired that never fails to bring a smile to my face.

Just my tuppence worth.

Good luck with your decision.
:D
 
stewhp said:
I can see why your are reluctant to purchase another C4s, once bitten and all that...

You had a very bad experience and it would put anyone off repeating it especially if the same thing happened again.

Having said that I have had a few BMW M cars and while they are really nice fast cars and sound great when revved to the limit. They do not have the same driver experience that a 911 has. Once the initial honeymoon period wears off I think you may feel a bit underwhelmed and that itch for a 911 will still remain.

I bought my latest car 18 months ago and knew that I would have to spend some cash on it to get it up to standard. I also knew about the pit falls of IMS,RMS and bore scoring. But for me it had to be another 911 and I will drive it and enjoy it.

Ok there is always the possibility that it may suffer from bore scoring and at 73K miles it could be imminent but I'm not going to worry about it. Not because I have pots of money(which I don't) but because I could walk in front of a bus tomorrow and be brown bread but at least I had the opportunity to drive a car I truely desired that never fails to bring a smile to my face.

Just my tuppence worth.

Good luck with your decision.
:D

I agree @stewhp. Sorry to hear your car is gone.

They sold a lot of 996's, I'm sure Hartec etc will be inundated but the majority still drive just fine. The reality is that any high performance engine could have a problem. BMW's are no exception (Google M3 engine problems!!).

An M1 might work for you in terms of reliability / speed and low depreciation but it's a very expensive car, different league to the C4s no?? I drove an M2 before buying my C4s last summer, its a good car but twice the money but not twice the fun... you could also buy a very nice Rev 2 997 C4s... they're lovely. Have a look at Lotus Evora's, I had one for two years, lovely thing and the engine is Toyota so won't do anything but work! But other niggles can happen. Nothing's perfect ehh!!

Or if you still want another 996 C4s and dont want any risk (understandable, I've considered this too but on balance have decided not to) there are a few warranties around from people like Parr. You have your car inspected and then pay about a £1000 a year for a £10k claim protection. Having read Hartec's website if it's bore scoring then about £5k to have them re lined correct?

Like the stewhp above I'm of the same opinion, if it needs a rebuild at some point then that's just the way it is, whilst painful it will add to the cars desirability in the future. Remember they won't depreciate three or four grand a year.

Good luck,
BK
 
I know what you mean, 4Ss do get under your skin, I'm on my second!

Buy a well looked after car that you've had bore scoped by a proper tech. Use the best oil, fit an LTT and drive it respectfully and odds are it will be fine for years. Even the hallowed air cooled cars need expensive top end work.

Or Keep an eye out for one which has been rebuilt already for total peace of mind- it's a shame as there is a great one on here in the classified ads, but deposit taken.
 
I think you have all hit the nail on the head really.....your where am too with it. I test drove a 1M last week and whilst the 1M is a great car, your right that it didn't have that special feel like the Porsche did.
I really want another Porsche, but it's the thought of the worry again. That said, if it hadn't been for the fact the dealer created the stress and sold me a lemon in the first place I probably wouldn't have been so bothered about it and would've just bit the bullet and got it done.
I'd spend the extra and buy a turbo for the Mezger but low mileage manuals are few and far between! I'm not sold on tips or PDK....Prefer a manual really whatever I decide to buy.
 
BChivs said:
I think you have all hit the nail on the head really.....your where am too with it. I test drove a 1M last week and whilst the 1M is a great car, your right that it didn't have that special feel like the Porsche did.
I really want another Porsche, but it's the thought of the worry again. That said, if it hadn't been for the fact the dealer created the stress and sold me a lemon in the first place I probably wouldn't have been so bothered about it and would've just bit the bullet and got it done.
I'd spend the extra and buy a turbo for the Mezger but low mileage manuals are few and far between! I'm not sold on tips or PDK....Prefer a manual really whatever I decide to buy.

You can pick up a decent low mileage (manual) turbo for 1M money, i've noticed a slight dip in prices recently so I reckon its a good time to buying at the moment. I've also considered the 1M as a one car solution but even with their rarity they are overpriced, you can pickup an M2 for the same price which is 99% the same car...or an M4 for even less!
 
infrasilver said:
You had a bad dealer experience, if you go to one of the respected dealers you will get a different car and different service and shouldn't have any further worries.

There is a reason BMW owners upgrade to a Porsche.

I am a big BMW fan though....just find them difficult to fault. Had 7 various over the years and run one now as my daily.

Does anyone know in the warranty Parr offer is for their own sold cars only or can be purchased, and if it will cover a 996? I just tried calling but they are closed due to Easter.
 
BChivs said:
Does anyone know in the warranty Parr offer is for their own sold cars only or can be purchased, and if it will cover a 996? I just tried calling but they are closed due to Easter.

I'm 99% certain that the 'bespoke Parr warranty' is only applicable to cars that they have sold.

As an in-house warranty it'll be better than any 'bought in' warranty that ordinary dealers provide but will probably still have limits/restrictions beyond the initial 6 months they're obliged to give.

Any 996 is now going to be at least 13 years old so getting anyone to underwrite potential engine issues will be difficult. It's one of the reasons why a lot of Porsche specialists only deal in higher value (i.e low mileage) Carreras as the risk to profit margins in lower value cars makes them unviable.
 
There's one really simple answer here - buy a C4S with a full Hartech rebuild. I know they're not common but they are out there........just gotta wait till the right one comes along.

Although once you start looking at 996 C4S you soon start hitting 997 money.

Check out this 3.8s 997 with Hartech rebuild:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803274971423
 
BChivs said:
RobIpswichUK said:
Didn't think bore score was too much to worry about on the M96 engines. If the rest (IMS/RMS etc) has been done, buy, drive, enjoy and get what you didn't get out of the last owning experience.

1M is a great car, but I don't think it is a sports coupe (just a fast beemer - don't flame me, I loved test driving one, but wouldn't pay the asking price for it!)

Even if something like the Hartech maintenance is off the radar, just keep putting whatever you can away, and enjoy a car, that has got to be close to zero depreciation, for a few years.

My last one had bore score and after speaking with a few in the trade including Hartech I think it is more common than many believe. I wish it wasn't!😔
Mine was using copious amounts of oil, fluctuating oil pressure and smoking from one bank only. Part of me thinks you need to factor the cost of a rebuild if you lan keeping long term.

Just draw a line under your experience and move on to a BMW. s you said the Mezger Turbo with manual box is what you'd really like but scarce - and you might get put off with a manual box as gearbox faults are quite common costing around £5k-£6k to repair properly if its just 2nd gear synchro and nothing else is needed once the box is stripped (parts prices have gone up a lot recently).

For your budget for a C4S there is plenty of choice - buy a copy of "Modern Classics" magazine and you can see for yourself. You like BMW, go for that.

This is a Porsche forum, so you are likely to get replies suggesting this and that to stay with the brand. But you know your wallet, you know the risks you are prepared to take and the experience you have said with the last 4S is both driven by a poor dealer as well as an inherent fault that no-one can predict when it will happen - it may not happen in your ownership but in the life cycle of the car its very likely to happen to some unlucky owner. That's why warranties do not cover bore score!

The Turbo is out of reach. BMW beckons. Go make the call and realise its opportunity. Good luck with the next purchase (I know nothing about BMW's).
 
alex yates said:
There's one really simple answer here - buy a C4S with a full Hartech rebuild. I know they're not common but they are out there........just gotta wait till the right one comes along.

Although once you start looking at 996 C4S you soon start hitting 997 money.

Check out this 3.8s 997 with Hartech rebuild:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201803274971423

Budget is not so much of an issue, just prefer the 996C4S to the Gen1 997.....I like the unique design and the fact it's wide ass and distinctive red light bar is becoming slightly classic and a bit of a cult car. I think if it's not to be a 996 C4S it would need to then be a Gen2 S or a low mileage 996 Turbo. I decided to buy the 911V Turbo, but by the time I'd sorted things with Stratton and had my money returned I'd missed the boat and it was sold!

I really like the look of this car.....decent miles and zero previous owners with 15 service stamps, all either OPC or Zentrum.
http://www.jrmotorcompany.co.uk/porsche-911-996-carerra-4s-manual-widebody-coupe-da03-pvv/product
 

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