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FZP
Sepang


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 2955
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:08 pm    Post subject: Oulton Park racing line/Druids Reply with quote

After yesterday's RS Day, I've had an issue bothering me. I consider myself to be handy behind the wheel and think that I can get round a circuit without embarrassing myself. Whilst there yesterday, I went out for a pax lap and noticed that the line that everyone was taking around druids was avoiding the first curb, staying wide and then trying to catch the second curb.
This seemed rather odd to me as when I've been out before in my own car, hitting both apex points through the double right handed there was significantly faster due to the camber in the road there. To me it was like a slingshot doing the double apex. When I mentioned this to him it seems like a foreign concept. So I questioned myself, perhaps I'm wrong may be my memory of it being faster through the double isn't as fast as I though it was and the late apex is the fastest line for a 911. So throughout the day I picked the brains of a few people asking the same question. At Druids, late apex or double apex? Everyone I asked came back with the same response, late apex on the second one. This really started to tick me off as I couldn't believe I could be so wrong. This morning with this thought, I started youtubing to see what lines people were taking from previous RS days and sure enough, late apex.
Still convinced I was right and everyone else was wrong, I then started the search for Carrera Cup cars and boom, every single video I watched of a Cup car was taking the double apex. I also found a tutorial with in depth analysis of every aspect of Oulton Park and he also was saying the double apex, due to the camber in the road. His description in the first articulates exactly my own thoughts.
https://youtu.be/Slaab9SjWys (approx 37 mins in)
https://youtu.be/YG0_cIbEUMg (approx 1.05 mins in)
So my question is this, why, given that all the pro drivers take the double and the amateurs decide that this line is incorrect and do the late single apex. Am I missing something?
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997.2 Carrera 2S GT Silver/Cocoa.
 
  
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astonboy
Trainee


Joined: 29 Dec 2017
Posts: 61



PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope u have it spot on. At the bottom of clay hill head direct for the oak tree. Turn left in maybe a little later than if it was just that corner to give u space to hit apex 1 and 2. Same thing at shells hairpin. Track day logic is wide in and hit apex out. Its cambered and wide - the earlier turn in and carry more speed so u can use track width to sort exit out. Same at following chicane - hit both kerbs asap. Just IMO.
 
  
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Senoj
Zolder


Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 5142
Location: Sussex


PostPosted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree about shell oils, in early and ride around, bit like a smooth Karussel!

For Druids I actually think its a bit of both, take apex 1 but not tight. Dep how much grip you have. Cup car on slicks can go where they like relatively speaking. I aso think late apex two is the “safe” line as this is a nasty place to leave the track...
 
  
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peterzoom
Monza


Joined: 25 Jul 2016
Posts: 207


2001 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Senoj wrote:
Agree about shell oils, in early and ride around, bit like a smooth Karussel!

For Druids I actually think its a bit of both, take apex 1 but not tight. Dep how much grip you have. Cup car on slicks can go where they like relatively speaking. I aso think late apex two is the “safe” line as this is a nasty place to leave the track...


100% agree, the safe line is the one most likely to be taught and that is where the bulk of opinion and knowledge will be coming from. Not that it is wrong either way but allowances do have to be made for the vast disparity between fully race prepared and casual track day approaches
 
  
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Boxsey
Watkins Glen


Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 2233
Location: Part of the NorthWest Crew

1990 Porsche 964 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both apexes are the racing line hence why you'll see carrera cup and other race cars take both. The racing line is to defend against overtakes as the enter Druids. The ultimate qualifying time line misses the first apex by about a car width and is definitely the faster way. Albeit many drivers, especially us track day drivers, brake too much for druids which cancels the advantage of using the faster qualifying line. Most of time we're taught the qualifying line for track days because we're not racing. Hand

Your second video of the cup car lap nicely illustrates how hairy the double apex racing line can be by the oversteer he catches on exit. Most of us would have spun in that situation. The first video is not really relevant to us because the Formula cars have too much grip and can do anything they want. F3 cars don't even brake for Druids. A little lift is enough because they have so much grip.
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Racing Yellow Cayman GT4

History of my now gone 964
 
  
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FZP
Sepang


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 2955
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In terms of exact car placement on apex 1, I’ll have to hold on that as I was new to 911s on the track at that point, but I will say that the correct line if definitely right of the seam in the road for apex 1. But I get why people may take the safety line for the reasons described above.
Old mate in the Cup car seems to have his hands full with thar car as he has a decent amount of oversteer in the last corner.
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