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Jay Are
Trainee


Joined: 04 Jul 2015
Posts: 84
Location: Kesselchen


PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject: 997 CAN BUS wizards wanted Reply with quote

Is there an idiots guide (this is really complex stuff) to CAN BUS? Or a guru?

We're messing around with an old 987 (CAN BUS will be the same) with a bigger engine, couple of turbo's Surprised etc.

We are trying to keep PSM and ABS , dash etc. Seriously hard work but worth it I think. Aftemarket ECU decoding is going ok but there are niggles like the handshake (chassis to engine ecu) and we are getting a Depress Clutch Pedal warning etc. Small things on the scheme of it but frustrating.

Are there any guides, has anyone done this before??


Question

Cheers,

JR
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987 turbo S
 
  
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7150
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PM me. I have some useful info on the 997 CAN bus protocol.

MC
 
  
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rob001
Silverstone


Joined: 13 Jan 2011
Posts: 120



PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.aim-sportline.com/download/ecu/stock/porsche/4_Porsche_997-987MK2OBDII+EMS_SDI-3.1_Siemens_105_eng.pdf
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Artic Silver X51 997 2S, manual
Sienna red BMW e46 325i with all M options available
ex Basalt black 996TT K16/24, 5bar FPR, FVD DV, 100 cell Europipe, UMW tune
ex 993 C2 tip Iris Blue
ex 996 C2
 
  
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6981
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can dig out what i have if needed also .

As i understand it the car is standard other than the ecu ?

Does the ecu see the normal can bus messages and its only the clutch switch it cant see ? if so then possibly a codeing issue .. code it to tiptronic if nothing else and see what that does.

Can bus to me is a standard system across all makes as far as im aware .. but i tend to fix problems and not modifie stuff im afraid .

gateway on the car handles the different systems like comfort , drive etc .

EDIT ..

just to add that from memory the clutch switch is hardwired to the start relay via the VTS (tracking system ) so is not a can message ..

I would assume the Vesa (electric cu ) or the instrument cluster sees the car has not spun over after a few seconds and so triggers the dash message .

On a normal car the message takes about 3-5 seconds with key in the start position before the message is triggered.
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My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target see Here

Thank you all so Very much .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.

Last edited by deMort on Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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Jay Are
Trainee


Joined: 04 Jul 2015
Posts: 84
Location: Kesselchen


PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Guys Thumb

Some good info found so far but still a long way off. I think the only standard thing in the car is the clutch - apart from the slave cylinder - that isn't come to think of it...

I may take you up on the offer DeMort but we have plently to look through for now so don't go out of your way to find something in particular. I will reserve the right to come back for a second installment as required.

Thanks again all. I am off to polish up on my CAN BUS / German Thumb
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deMort
Long Beach


Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 6981
Location: Brighton


PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i just edited my previous message ..

Please keep me informed or give me details as i love to try and help on things like this .. im no expert but happy to do my best .

Plus i love people that get my name spot on Very Happy Thumb
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My Daughter's Crowdfunding has hit the target see Here

Thank you all so Very much .



Mechanic

7pm - 9pm

Now At An Indy.
 
  
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7150
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The CAN protocol itself is standard, in that the messages will have up to 8 bytes of data and either 11 or 29 bit identifiers, but the addresses used and the format of the data within the messages is proprietary and a closely guarded secret by the manufacturers. You can get devices to read the data on the CAN bus, but unless you know what you are looking for you will just see a load of addresses and data bytes with no clue as to what they mean.
I know on the PDK equipped cars there is handshaking between the gearbox and engine ECUs, I don't know about on the other versions.

MC
 
  
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Mezgerite
Monza


Joined: 02 Nov 2016
Posts: 176



PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this Ed's car?
 
  
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angry
Montreal


Joined: 30 Sep 2008
Posts: 602
Location: East sussex


PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mezgerite wrote:
Is this Ed's car?

No Mr. Green
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JordonMusser
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jul 2019
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curious if you ever sorted this out? I am trying to figure out the AC Compressor request address on the "drive' canbus.

My car is up and running. 1500hp TT V8, but I need to get my AC working Smile

instagram.com/jordon.musser
 
  
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HSC911
Long Beach


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 6524
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JordonMusser wrote:
My car is up and running. 1500hp TT V8, but I need to get my AC working Smile


With 1500bhp on tap, just open the window and floor it Driving

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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7150
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JordonMusser wrote:
Curious if you ever sorted this out? I am trying to figure out the AC Compressor request address on the "drive' canbus.

My car is up and running. 1500hp TT V8, but I need to get my AC working Smile

instagram.com/jordon.musser


What is the engine in?
MC
 
  
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Gazc2
Kyalami


Joined: 08 Nov 2003
Posts: 1948
Location: Perthshire


PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wowser check out Jordans instagram thats a lovely looking beast caymen with an LS engine strapped in (I think) car looks cracking
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2007 997 Turbo & 924s in progress
1990 964 C2
1989 3.2 targa
1987 3.2 Cab
1986 3.3 Turbo
1986 944 2.5 (later fitted with a 2.7 after wife went scuba diving in a flood and popped a piston through the block)
 
  
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JordonMusser
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jul 2019
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys. It is a dry sump LSA (LS3 crank, LSA block, LSA heads).

A lot changes on the canbus when you turn the AC on so I am not sure which address is the actual compressor request. Wish I had a stock car to play with.

Going to fiddle a bit more this weekend with the CAN sniffer. Might wire in a temp hard switch to the compressor so I can street tune with AC on (its 100F outside right now)
 
  
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7150
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JordonMusser wrote:
Thanks guys. It is a dry sump LSA (LS3 crank, LSA block, LSA heads).

A lot changes on the canbus when you turn the AC on so I am not sure which address is the actual compressor request. Wish I had a stock car to play with.

Going to fiddle a bit more this weekend with the CAN sniffer. Might wire in a temp hard switch to the compressor so I can street tune with AC on (its 100F outside right now)


It does vary from model to model, but I would start by looking for the following

Message ID 0x246
Byte 0, bit 4 AC compressor on

This is for a 997, I'm not sure I have anything on the Cayman, but if you give me your model and year I'll take a look.

MC
 
  
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JordonMusser
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jul 2019
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you! I know that getting this stuff is a lot of work, so I appreciate sharing the info. This is 100% DIY for me, so I dont have a massive database of cars to look at info.

It started as a 2007 Cayman S.
 
  
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7150
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The info I have is listed as 9*7, so I would hope that it would be right for you.
If you want to PM me where you find something like Throttle Position or RPM I'll check against my file and can confirm.

Message 0x600 looks like the main climate control one
Byte 0 bit 3 AC switch
Byte 2 Refrigerant pressure 0-50.8 bar

Edited to add. 0x600 is a climate control unit message, 0x246 is an engine controller message. If I had to guess I would say that 0x600 would be used as the request and 0x246 is an output of the current status. Only a guess though, I've never played with these messages myself.

MC
 
  
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JordonMusser
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jul 2019
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you are right. 0x600 is 100% AC controls ( haven't mapped, but I logged while playing with controls and noted several bytes changing in 0x600).

I worked with AIM Sportline on the ECU to dash config and they won't give me any of the converted data. They sent me a locked CAN template ;(

Made it easier to get going, but I can't see those details.

I am confident that wheel speeds are 0x24a, byte 0/2/4/6 (FL/FR/LR/RR) if that helps.

Clutch seems to be 0x242

I will reply back if 0x624 works. I will sniff at the latest this weekend and look for that change when turning the AC on.
 
  
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JordonMusser
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jul 2019
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(saw your edit)

I looked at a raw log file I had a screen grab of, and I think you are right. Since the factory ECU is just sitting there (not controlling engine) 0x246 was not transmitted, only a bunch of 0x600

Im a MechE, so only working knowledge (but growing) of this.
 
  
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MisterCorn
Dijon


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 7150
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JordonMusser wrote:
Clutch seems to be 0x242

I can't see anything specific to the clutch, but an 'interlock' is mentioned which could well be it. That message does contain engine speed and throttle position amongst other things.


JordonMusser wrote:
I am confident that wheel speeds are 0x24a, byte 0/2/4/6 (FL/FR/LR/RR) if that helps.


They are, but the lsb is not part of the wheel speed, so ignore that. Scaling is 0.02km/h per bit.

It sounds like you are on to the right things. I log all of my CAN bus data using a Race Technology data logger and Analysis software. I can log all of the raw CAN bus data and then pick it apart in the software as well as decoding live if required (I work at Race Technology which helps).

If you want me to confirm / deny or give pointers on messages just drop me a note and I'll help out where I can. I know what reverse engineering this stuff is like. I spend ages doing it on my 996 turbo years ago.

MC
 
  
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