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Forrester
Newbie


Joined: 11 May 2014
Posts: 24



PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:35 pm    Post subject: 718 vs 991 Reply with quote

Yesterday, I took my 991 C4S in for some warranty work on the heater and was rewarded with a nice new 718 Boxter S in Miami Blue as a loan car. I drove it for about 120 miles (~ 3 hours) over a mixture of dual carriageways and twisty B roads and I think I got a good feel for it. Now I know that 718s and 991s are very different beasts, but a 718S is pretty much as fast as a 991, so, some personal observations:

1) The 718 cabin is a quieter than the 991. At first I thought it was just the 4 cylinder over the 991's 6 cylinder, but when I got back in my 991 I realized it was mainly the rear tyre noise. I think I've just got used to it in the 991 and it's only when you get in another sports car that you realize it's really quite significant. Might be due to a combination of the 718's cabin layout -no rear seat space - and narrower tyres.

2) I thought the Bose audio was better than in the 991.1. I don't have Bose in mine and I've never been able to tell the slightest difference between Bose and standard. This might have changed in the 991.2 as I notice that the Bose has been upgraded while it looks like the standard has been downgraded somewhat. However, on reflection when I got back into my 991, I think that my perception that the Bose was better might have been due to the cabin layout and lack of tyre noise.

3) The PCM was better but not by much really. The 718 had the multi-function steering wheel - which I hated! I particularly disliked the rotating button. Far too small. I've got one on by BMW F11 and it's a heck of a lot easier to use, though no doubt I'd have got used to it time.

4) Manettino. Loved it! Wish it could be retrofitted on my 991.

5) Engine sound. This was weird - it just didn't sound like a Porsche. It just sounded boomy to me and with the PSE switched on, it sounded even boomier. Not a fan of the engine sound at all.

6) Cornering. Different feel entirely due to the engine position. I don't know it its better or worse. It's just different.

7) Torque. Very smooth and very linear. Always there when I needed it and much more accessible at low revs than the 991.1. Initially, I was really pleased with this and enjoyed just pushing forward and getting instant acceleration. No noticeable turbo lag and no noticeable turbo hiss either. It was only after hurtling past a long low loader with a wide excavator on board that I realized what the problem was. The 718 shot past effortlessly (the PSE making a suitably impressive booming sound) and I got past with no trouble. No trouble - that was it. My 991.1 is a bit of a pussycat below 3500 rpm (though a friend once said 'if you really think that, you ain't driving it right'). But above 3500 and approaching 5000-6000 it's something else. Totally something else. The rising banshee howl from the back is truly spine tingling and the feeling of 's**t! This is it' as I approach the next bend/car/tractor/cow with my arms locked on the wheel like my life depended on it (which it probably does). The strange thing it that I never feel the acceleration, though my passenger usually makes some comment about depositing their breakfast/lunch on the floor. God only knows what the guy being overtaken thinks ("Bloody Porsche drivers!" probably). And that's what was missing in the 718. Fast, tick. Smooth, tick. Fun, tick. Exciting, no. The 991.1 isn't linear and that's what makes it exciting to drive. Purely a personal view.

So after I returned the 718 to the OPC I was walking towards my 991 with the SA and we were discussing the 718 and I mentioned some of the above to him. I said '718 - nice car, but I wouldn't swap it for my 991'. The SA just nodded and as we got to my Sapphire Blue 991, he said "That's just a beautiful car". Exactly.
 
  
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alpinaB3
Trainee


Joined: 24 Mar 2016
Posts: 88



PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My original intention was to buy a Caymen GTS (6 cylinder) however when the current model came out (718) was less than impressed. So decided to go with the 911.2 best decision I made Smile Driving the 911 is a special occasion every time I go out in it, from the sound of the car, its looks, everything. So no regrets from me either Very Happy
_________________
Current: 911.2 4S, Sapphire Blue Metallic, Graphite Blue leather interior, Manual transmission, Rear-axle steering, Sport Suspension, Sport exhaust, 18 way Sport Plus seats, Sport Chrono Package, BOSE® Surround Sound-System + other goodies!
Past: Alpina B3 BiTurbo Coupe (e92) No.268 of 270
http://carscapes.byethost33.com/
 
  
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Forrester
Newbie


Joined: 11 May 2014
Posts: 24



PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

quote: go with the 911.2 best decision I made

Yup.

When I was looking around initially trying to decide whether to go Porche, Jaguar F-type or BMW M5, I came across a number of threads where the OP was asking whether to go for a 911 or a Cayman/Boxter. The invariable reply was to go for the 911 because 'you'll regret it forever if you don't. Boxter/Caymans are good cars but 911s are special'.

I never really understood that at the time, but now I do.
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 14514
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: 718 vs 991 Reply with quote

I read this post with great interest as by coincidence yesterday I took my 997 Turbo in for warranty renewal and borrowed a lovely looking white 718 Cayman S. I used it all day and clocked up 154 miles on my local roads (mostly slow A and twisty B roads). Like you I was able to get a real feel for it.

You said that the 718s and 991s are very different beasts, but a 718S is pretty much as fast as a 991, which interested me as I expect my next 911 to be a 991S. I have driven 991s a few times and thought the driving difference would be similar and the performance differential would be greater. After yesterdays experience my view is that they are very similar across the board and that (token rear seats and badge snobbery aside) it would be difficult to make a case for the 911 if buying new.

Following your lead:

1) You say that the 718 cabin is a quieter than the 991 which surprised me but it is definitely quieter than my 997T and as you say I think it's down to the louder rear tyre noise. I agree that this seems to be the combination of the 718's cabin layout - no space behind the drivers seat and narrower tyres.

2) I rarely switch music on in any car I drive so can't comment.

3) The PCM is SO much better than mine it's laughable.

4) Manettino. I'll have to google that Smile

5) Engine sound. You said ........ "This was weird - it just didn't sound like a Porsche. It just sounded boomy to me and with the PSE switched on, it sounded even boomier. Not a fan of the engine sound at all".

I totally concur. I prefer the stealth mode that 'proper' 911 Turbos give but do appreciate why others love the 6 cylinder howl. The flat four Turbo just sounds horrible.

6) Cornering. You said "different feel entirely due to the engine position. I don't know it its better or worse. It's just different". Again I agree but was surprised at just how sure footed the 2 wheel drive car felt on the damp, greasy roads that I experienced for the first hour of my test drive.

7) Torque. As you said "Very smooth and very linear. Always there when I needed it .....".

I'll have to drive a 991.1 again to see what you mean by "much more accessible at low revs than the 991.1" as this would disappoint me. Like you I was really pleased, and somewhat surprised, by the delivery from the 718S engine and enjoyed just pushing forward and getting instant acceleration. The lack of any turbo lag was astounding.

Your comments that your 991.1 is a bit of a pussycat below 3500 rpm reminds me of my old 996C4 which from 3500 to 6000 was also 'something else' and your comments about "the rising banshee howl from the back is truly spine tingling and the feeling of 's**t! This is it" really bring back memories to me.

I can understand you opining that "that's what was missing in the 718. Fast, tick. Smooth, tick. Fun, tick. Exciting, no." but from my point of view it's what would make the 718S such a brilliant car for use as a 'daily driver'.

When I returned the 718S to the OPC and jumped back in my 997T my first impression was just how classic the interior of my car looked. On the move I was gobsmacked at how light and tactile the steering felt and couldn't wait to get back on the same roads that I'd just driven the 718S on. In all honesty I don't think there would be much difference in time it would take me to cover any distances on my local roads in either car which is a fantastic tribute to the Cayman.

Of course I just know how much my car has in reserve for those odd times that you can use it but in reality those times are very few and far between and only legally possible in Germany so I'd have to conclude that a Cayman S is a truly viable alternative to a 991 as my next Porsche.

Who knows, when decision time comes it may just come down to that old adage ....... "The Cayman is a brilliant sports car and a superb Porsche BUT it's not a 911". Very Happy
_________________
2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual

Last edited by T8 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:45 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 14514
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to add just how taken by the car my The Wife was.

She doesn't like 911s but really liked the Cayman. She was taken by everything about it ... the looks, the performance (without the kick that she doesn't like about my car), the comfort, the refinement etc ... etc

I've told her she's welcome to buy one and I'd be happy to chauffeur her wherever she wants to go. Smile

This was my favourite view of it.


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ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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MaxA
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 1226
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of great posts.

I was in the market for an NA Cayman when I bought the 997 a couple of years ago, and while I have no regrets, I do feel that I have the classic iconic Porsche. It's an amazing machine, and so much fun in recent weeks.

I could still see myself in a Cayman, as long as it had a flat six, as it's mid engined, RWD, a bit smaller, and lighter. Almost more purist.

Somehow, though, I feel that it's less likely that I would drive it in a Finnish winter ... and the Chief Strategist would have my guts for garters as she thinks I need four seats (huh?). Grin
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2010 9972 C4S PDK: Carrara White, Sea Blue. Mostly driven, lightly modified, occasionally tracked, and usually a bit grubby.
 
  
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Forrester
Newbie


Joined: 11 May 2014
Posts: 24



PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The manettino is the small dial attached to the steering wheel on 991.2S and 718S. The reason I liked it was because of an unfortunate experience very early in my ownership of my 991, before I'd got used to it.

I was overtaking a car (normally, nothing dramatic) and decided that I needed a bit more oomph to complete the maneuver before the next bend. So while accelerating (eyes on the road), I pressed the Sport button. Or thought I did - instead I hit the Sport+ button. There was a helluva BANG -the PDK must have dropped three gears as it tried to red line. For a split second I really thought the engine had fallen out. Then suddenly I was hurtling towards the bend at some lunatic speed. I don't think I went round the bend on two wheels but it sure felt like it. Scared the bejazus out of me.
 
  
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James M-S
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 664
Location: Derby

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting reading. I still haven’t driven a cayman but am keen to do.

I sat in a GT4 at the weekend and was astounded at how much room there was. I’m 6’4” and it was loads comfier than my 997.2

A GT4 deffo on the wish list now, just a shame I haven’t got 85k to spare. Dont know
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maldren
Österreich


Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 890



PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few things that really struck me when I drove my brother's 718 Cayman (compared with my 996.2):

1. It's very fast and the power delivery is amazingly uniform, a very flat torque curve.

2. The PDK box is, by far, the best auto box I've driven.

3. The handling is terrific but so, also is the ride. Good enough to convince me to upgrade mine to Ohlins.

4. The LED headlights are like daylight.

5. The engine sound, well to be honest, inside the car, it's quite quiet!!!
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2003 996.2 C2 Coupe Arctic Silver
 
  
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Kryton
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 05 Mar 2005
Posts: 322
Location: Coniston, Lake District


PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Cayman 718 is a great car and I use mine daily


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2Lt 718 Cayman (weekday drive)
 
  
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G2
Österreich


Joined: 26 Oct 2015
Posts: 945



PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After some prompting by T8 on another thread.....

718 boxster loan car from OPC 1000 miles on clock, sports exhaust, crayon colour. Full day with it. Sitting quite dirty in the garage.

Biggest disappointment - blanked by a silver 996 c4s driver when I waved...gutted Surprised

Car is very stable. Big 20" alloys which are in scale with the car, but the brakes look tiny. Great on country A roads, bit boomy in town with the sports exhaust on, kind of sounds like a big humming bumble bee at low revs and gets to a good growl at higher revs but then runs out of revs and goes back to booming again...hope porsche don't do that to the 992 turbo'd c2 / c4.

Build quality does come across well. Nice place to sit.

Drove it through the hindhead tunnel 3 times. Thought something fell off when I triggered the overrun in sport the first time, like a lower frequency version of a tyre bursting. It plays exactly the same tune each time you back off in sport mode, regardless of speed or revs (only th volume changes).....not sure I like that as it's clearly the ECU that's conducting it rather than the induction/exhaust.

Dropped the roof down to see how it handles very light rain with the wind deflector and to try and get the noise through into the cabin. Handled it perfectly.

Couple of things I think will become issues over time:-
Firstly, There are no inner wheel arches (usually black plastic in 99% or Porsches ain't they Question ) surely that's going to lead to lots of bits corroding more than they should. It might be specific to the 20" alloys but it struck me as really odd on a brand new demo car.
Drop the roof when wet (not soaking) and there is a small trickle waterfall on the passenger side that ran right into the window switch area. That's going to be a weak point if it happens each time...

I did actually find myself talking out loud as I thought "it's an odd car in some ways so do I like this? " the answer is yes, but not as a Porsche if that makes sense? the crease line on the top of the wings and the buzzing engine etc made me realise that I would not really have known this was a Porsche without the clocks.

Summary - It could be a jag/Lexus etc....I would not really want one, but I did think it's a really nice drop top for the summer and I see why people like them.

Mrs thinks I'm mad as she really likes it. Apparently I'm too focused on 911s....for once she is right !
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Last edited by G2 on Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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tim993
Zolder


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 5135
Location: Hampshire

2016 Porsche Boxster 981

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The cynic in me thinks they lopped off two cylinders to stop 911 buyers defecting to the 718! Compare a well specced 981 Boxster S and above to a 991.1 cabrio and really the 981 feels like you've bagged a bargain. Comparing the 982 to a 991.2 and I came away thinking the 911 was a bargain. I've nothing against the new Boxster and Cayman as they are both excellent cars to drive - its just that to my mind they rather highlight just how wonderful the new 911 is. I've based this view on my experiences of driving a selection of cars at PEC Silverstone and of course a couple of years with a 981.
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