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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 13305
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

New997buyer wrote:


Formby - LEGEND!! I was outside his old house the other year in St Annes.

Still love Auntie Maggie's remedy.


oh go on then Grin

77 years old!! Surprised


Open Youtube Page

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911UK
Porsche Community
Porsche Community


Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9597
Location: 911UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FriendsGreenPorsche 12 Feb 2018 12:10 am wrote:
So I would never normally reply to any thread on the internet relating to us, but I will on this occasion as an unfair account of events is being described.

Said buyer agreed to buy a car, but on the agreement that it didn't have any significant problems upon an independent inspection. If it showed any such problems, the deposit would then be refundable upon request.

The independent inspection showed a camshaft deviation. The buyer seeked advice from the independent inspection company as well as our designated Porsche specialist. Both advised it was likely to be worn timing chain between the camshafts, and worn tensioner pads.

Upon learning this, the buyer did not request the deposit back, but instead discussed and entered in to a new agreement to have this work done by our designated specialist. We agreed that if said works did not resolve the issue then the deposit would then become refundable. The specialist is busy for the next couple of weeks so we arranged for him to collect the car and then drop it with the specialist on the arranged date to be fixed. At no point did he raise issue with this arrangement.

After this agreement had been entered, parts had been ordered and arrangements with the garage had been made, the buyer rings to say he's changed his mind and wants his deposit back. I politely explained the above to which the buyer responded badly, threatening to write bad things on the internet if he did not get the refund. It is correct that I offered to refund half the amount out of goodwill, which I thought reasonable.

Lastly, r.e. the aero kit. Sometimes the factory aero kits fail to have the relative code on the option sticker. All the parts (spoiler, skirts, bumper) are genuine Porsche parts, so it is hard to distinguish whether it has been added later or not. The buyer knew about the lack of code upon first viewing of the car and said it wasn't an issue to him. He agreed to buy the car after discussing the aero kit.

We have never had an issue like this with a customer before and feel we have acted fairly in this instance.

FGP.


FriendsGreenPorsche 12 Feb 2018 11:13 am wrote:
The buyer has entered in to a legally binding agreement. He negotiated the terms of this agreement, which were; the issue found with the car would be remedied by the works suggested by two Porsche specialist mechanics. However, if this work did not remedy the issue, the deposit would be fully refundable.

This scenario has not been the case. Works on the car have not even began -
the buyer has simply changed his mind. We have not breached this agreement and would still happily fulfil it. It is the buyer that is breaching the agreement and he is therefore not legally entitled to the deposit back.

R.e. the suggestion that the car may not be fit for purpose: It may be arguable that upon finding the camshaft deviation issue the car was not fit for purpose, but this is why the buyer negotiated a new agreement whereby the issue would be fixed and thus the car fit for purpose. The term involving the deposit being refundable if this work did not remedy the issue safe guarded his position by securing that he would either have a car without fault, or his money returned.

We would never normally confront a customer like this and always try to achieve satisfaction, which is why our reputation is good, but at what point do you draw the line and determine that the customer is pushing the small business around and using the threat of damaging their reputation as ammunition.

I think that all the facts with this have now been detailed in this thread and I hope people can draw their own conclusions from this. I stand by that a goodwill offer of £250 was a fair and reasonable offer to make and would still have no problem in fulfilling this.

FGP.


FriendsGreenPorsche 13 Feb 2018 05:23 pm wrote:
Dear all

The buyer and I have come to an agreement. He is having his deposit refunded in full as requested and this thread is being removed.

The car is scheduled to have the remedial work completed on 16/02/2018.

The company's existence coming to an end is a totally separate and unrelated issue. It was formed circa 18 months ago, but I decided to remain trading as a sole trader rather than under a limited company. The company was therefore never used and has no online accounts. There will be no new company formed and no new business name as some have anticipated; I will remain trading as Friends Green Porsche.

The premises is owned by myself and my Brother. It is an old farm with a farm house that I live in and old agricultural buildings permitted for business use.

It is astonishing that I am having to answer to personal issues such as my home on the internet, but unfortunately some felt it necessary to critic on these things.

I am thankful to the people that have been reading this thread and contacted by email to say they could understand my position. To those of you who did not, but wrote in a reasoned manner, i respect your opinions.

It was never about the money here, it was about the principle of someone messing you around and backing out of an agreement when you are just trying to run a business. However, I hold my hands up and admit that it is lesson learnt with this one. It is not worth the grief - The customer is always right.

All the best
FGP


The deposit is scheduled to refunded in full on what date ....?
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 13305
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just in case:

911UK wrote:
FriendsGreenPorsche 12 Feb 2018 12:10 am wrote:
So I would never normally reply to any thread on the internet relating to us, but I will on this occasion as an unfair account of events is being described.

Said buyer agreed to buy a car, but on the agreement that it didn't have any significant problems upon an independent inspection. If it showed any such problems, the deposit would then be refundable upon request.

The independent inspection showed a camshaft deviation. The buyer seeked advice from the independent inspection company as well as our designated Porsche specialist. Both advised it was likely to be worn timing chain between the camshafts, and worn tensioner pads.

Upon learning this, the buyer did not request the deposit back, but instead discussed and entered in to a new agreement to have this work done by our designated specialist. We agreed that if said works did not resolve the issue then the deposit would then become refundable. The specialist is busy for the next couple of weeks so we arranged for him to collect the car and then drop it with the specialist on the arranged date to be fixed. At no point did he raise issue with this arrangement.

After this agreement had been entered, parts had been ordered and arrangements with the garage had been made, the buyer rings to say he's changed his mind and wants his deposit back. I politely explained the above to which the buyer responded badly, threatening to write bad things on the internet if he did not get the refund. It is correct that I offered to refund half the amount out of goodwill, which I thought reasonable.

Lastly, r.e. the aero kit. Sometimes the factory aero kits fail to have the relative code on the option sticker. All the parts (spoiler, skirts, bumper) are genuine Porsche parts, so it is hard to distinguish whether it has been added later or not. The buyer knew about the lack of code upon first viewing of the car and said it wasn't an issue to him. He agreed to buy the car after discussing the aero kit.

We have never had an issue like this with a customer before and feel we have acted fairly in this instance.

FGP.


FriendsGreenPorsche 12 Feb 2018 11:13 am wrote:
The buyer has entered in to a legally binding agreement. He negotiated the terms of this agreement, which were; the issue found with the car would be remedied by the works suggested by two Porsche specialist mechanics. However, if this work did not remedy the issue, the deposit would be fully refundable.

This scenario has not been the case. Works on the car have not even began -
the buyer has simply changed his mind. We have not breached this agreement and would still happily fulfil it. It is the buyer that is breaching the agreement and he is therefore not legally entitled to the deposit back.

R.e. the suggestion that the car may not be fit for purpose: It may be arguable that upon finding the camshaft deviation issue the car was not fit for purpose, but this is why the buyer negotiated a new agreement whereby the issue would be fixed and thus the car fit for purpose. The term involving the deposit being refundable if this work did not remedy the issue safe guarded his position by securing that he would either have a car without fault, or his money returned.

We would never normally confront a customer like this and always try to achieve satisfaction, which is why our reputation is good, but at what point do you draw the line and determine that the customer is pushing the small business around and using the threat of damaging their reputation as ammunition.

I think that all the facts with this have now been detailed in this thread and I hope people can draw their own conclusions from this. I stand by that a goodwill offer of £250 was a fair and reasonable offer to make and would still have no problem in fulfilling this.

FGP.


FriendsGreenPorsche 13 Feb 2018 05:23 pm wrote:
Dear all

The buyer and I have come to an agreement. He is having his deposit refunded in full as requested and this thread is being removed.

The car is scheduled to have the remedial work completed on 16/02/2018.

The company's existence coming to an end is a totally separate and unrelated issue. It was formed circa 18 months ago, but I decided to remain trading as a sole trader rather than under a limited company. The company was therefore never used and has no online accounts. There will be no new company formed and no new business name as some have anticipated; I will remain trading as Friends Green Porsche.

The premises is owned by myself and my Brother. It is an old farm with a farm house that I live in and old agricultural buildings permitted for business use.

It is astonishing that I am having to answer to personal issues such as my home on the internet, but unfortunately some felt it necessary to critic on these things.

I am thankful to the people that have been reading this thread and contacted by email to say they could understand my position. To those of you who did not, but wrote in a reasoned manner, i respect your opinions.

It was never about the money here, it was about the principle of someone messing you around and backing out of an agreement when you are just trying to run a business. However, I hold my hands up and admit that it is lesson learnt with this one. It is not worth the grief - The customer is always right.

All the best
FGP


The deposit is scheduled to refunded in full on what date ....?

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Used daily....rain, sun or snow.

 
  
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jonttt
Shanghai


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 4720
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alex yates wrote:
Just in case:

911UK wrote:
FriendsGreenPorsche 12 Feb 2018 12:10 am wrote:
So I would never normally reply to any thread on the internet relating to us, but I will on this occasion as an unfair account of events is being described.

Said buyer agreed to buy a car, but on the agreement that it didn't have any significant problems upon an independent inspection. If it showed any such problems, the deposit would then be refundable upon request.

The independent inspection showed a camshaft deviation. The buyer seeked advice from the independent inspection company as well as our designated Porsche specialist. Both advised it was likely to be worn timing chain between the camshafts, and worn tensioner pads.

Upon learning this, the buyer did not request the deposit back, but instead discussed and entered in to a new agreement to have this work done by our designated specialist. We agreed that if said works did not resolve the issue then the deposit would then become refundable. The specialist is busy for the next couple of weeks so we arranged for him to collect the car and then drop it with the specialist on the arranged date to be fixed. At no point did he raise issue with this arrangement.

After this agreement had been entered, parts had been ordered and arrangements with the garage had been made, the buyer rings to say he's changed his mind and wants his deposit back. I politely explained the above to which the buyer responded badly, threatening to write bad things on the internet if he did not get the refund. It is correct that I offered to refund half the amount out of goodwill, which I thought reasonable.

Lastly, r.e. the aero kit. Sometimes the factory aero kits fail to have the relative code on the option sticker. All the parts (spoiler, skirts, bumper) are genuine Porsche parts, so it is hard to distinguish whether it has been added later or not. The buyer knew about the lack of code upon first viewing of the car and said it wasn't an issue to him. He agreed to buy the car after discussing the aero kit.

We have never had an issue like this with a customer before and feel we have acted fairly in this instance.

FGP.


FriendsGreenPorsche 12 Feb 2018 11:13 am wrote:
The buyer has entered in to a legally binding agreement. He negotiated the terms of this agreement, which were; the issue found with the car would be remedied by the works suggested by two Porsche specialist mechanics. However, if this work did not remedy the issue, the deposit would be fully refundable.

This scenario has not been the case. Works on the car have not even began -
the buyer has simply changed his mind. We have not breached this agreement and would still happily fulfil it. It is the buyer that is breaching the agreement and he is therefore not legally entitled to the deposit back.

R.e. the suggestion that the car may not be fit for purpose: It may be arguable that upon finding the camshaft deviation issue the car was not fit for purpose, but this is why the buyer negotiated a new agreement whereby the issue would be fixed and thus the car fit for purpose. The term involving the deposit being refundable if this work did not remedy the issue safe guarded his position by securing that he would either have a car without fault, or his money returned.

We would never normally confront a customer like this and always try to achieve satisfaction, which is why our reputation is good, but at what point do you draw the line and determine that the customer is pushing the small business around and using the threat of damaging their reputation as ammunition.

I think that all the facts with this have now been detailed in this thread and I hope people can draw their own conclusions from this. I stand by that a goodwill offer of £250 was a fair and reasonable offer to make and would still have no problem in fulfilling this.

FGP.


FriendsGreenPorsche 13 Feb 2018 05:23 pm wrote:
Dear all

The buyer and I have come to an agreement. He is having his deposit refunded in full as requested and this thread is being removed.

The car is scheduled to have the remedial work completed on 16/02/2018.

The company's existence coming to an end is a totally separate and unrelated issue. It was formed circa 18 months ago, but I decided to remain trading as a sole trader rather than under a limited company. The company was therefore never used and has no online accounts. There will be no new company formed and no new business name as some have anticipated; I will remain trading as Friends Green Porsche.

The premises is owned by myself and my Brother. It is an old farm with a farm house that I live in and old agricultural buildings permitted for business use.

It is astonishing that I am having to answer to personal issues such as my home on the internet, but unfortunately some felt it necessary to critic on these things.

I am thankful to the people that have been reading this thread and contacted by email to say they could understand my position. To those of you who did not, but wrote in a reasoned manner, i respect your opinions.

It was never about the money here, it was about the principle of someone messing you around and backing out of an agreement when you are just trying to run a business. However, I hold my hands up and admit that it is lesson learnt with this one. It is not worth the grief - The customer is always right.

All the best
FGP


The deposit is scheduled to refunded in full on what date ....?


Just in Just in case
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1997 Porsche 911 993 C4S My Journal
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FZP
Kyalami


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 1996
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP. Does this suit your needs?
http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=125606&highlight=
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Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 13239
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FZP wrote:
OP. Does this suit your needs?
http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=125606&highlight=


or this

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-996/porsche-911-carrera-4-coupe-manual-gt3-kit-72000-miles/8336154
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porsche996aero
Newbie


Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 16



PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FZP wrote:
OP. Does this suit your needs?
http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=125606&highlight=


Champion. That could be ideal Thumb
 
  
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porsche996aero
Newbie


Joined: 09 Feb 2018
Posts: 16



PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
FZP wrote:
OP. Does this suit your needs?
http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=125606&highlight=


or this

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-carrera-996/porsche-911-carrera-4-coupe-manual-gt3-kit-72000-miles/8336154


Thanks! Funnily enough, I *think* this was on eBay a few months ago and sold for £15k, then reappeared from another seller for £16k and is now going for good money at nearly £19k (although it does looks pristine). Summer definitely is on the way
 
  
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Tomo
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jun 2016
Posts: 26



PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what happens to the car in question now? Seems it will just be sold on to the next poor soul with the trader in full knowledge the engine has a serious issue. Nice.
 
  
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kurlykris
Watkins Glen


Joined: 30 Jun 2014
Posts: 2106
Location: Warwickshire


PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FriendsGreenPorsche wrote:

The car is scheduled to have the remedial work completed on 16/02/2018.



Make of that what you will Thumb
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mrgrey
Silverstone


Joined: 09 Mar 2014
Posts: 146
Location: Essex


PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AMAZING the OP joins the forum less than a week ago, post a justifiable moan and then gets an 8 page thread out of it, that's like scoring a hat trick on your debut .

Some members don't even get 8 views sometimes.

All I can say is he better redeem himself pronto by buying a great 911 and posting lots of nice pictures on here.

He owes us right !

2018's most entertaining thread so far, just goes to prove bad stuff is often more interesting than good stuff.
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 13305
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might add it to the threads that rocked.
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sim996
Trainee


Joined: 05 Aug 2017
Posts: 81



PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FGP royally ***** up, doesn't sound like anyone I'd like to do business with.

However, the internet usually forgets. Who's that place in London, sure they're still trading despite the many bad customer experiences.
 
  
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 13305
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UBS? Dont know
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pzero
General
General


Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 4581
Location: London


PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sim996 wrote:
FGP royally ***** up, doesn't sound like anyone I'd like to do business with.

However, the internet usually forgets. Who's that place in London, sure they're still trading despite the many bad customer experiences.


HWM.
 
  
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HSC911
Shanghai


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 4540
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tomo wrote:
So what happens to the car in question now? Seems it will just be sold on to the next poor soul with the trader in full knowledge the engine has a serious issue. Nice.


If the OP has the reg number then he could post it here Dont know

A Google search would bring a potential buyer to this thread Cop

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911UK
Porsche Community
Porsche Community


Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9597
Location: 911UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HSC911 wrote:
Tomo wrote:
So what happens to the car in question now? Seems it will just be sold on to the next poor soul with the trader in full knowledge the engine has a serious issue. Nice.


If the OP has the reg number then he could post it here Dont know

A Google search would bring a potential buyer to this thread Cop

Thumb


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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 13305
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The MOT in August 2017 shows it was well cared for.

Floor


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Pip1968
Suzuka


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1109
Location: Blighty


PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Much like PeterS I too was expecting a completely different story following on from the title - loss of control/traction perhaps whilst out in an usual colour of Porsche Very Happy .

I read the first couple of pages and then the last few as in a short time the post had turned into War and Peace . Anyway I think we should all move on. Nothing to see here Wink .

FGP was perhaps wrong in not offering a full refund but I can also understand his position if they had both agreed to get the work done. Legally I have no idea where each stands or stood but perhaps £250 was a fair amount to lose because you changed your mind. Fools rush in and all that.....

Anyway the last couple of pages read like a pack of hyena. FGP has been taken down and everyone dives in. Schadenfreude is not an attractive trait and perhaps the moderators should take the thread down pending the outcome or at least lock it.

Just my opinion of course.

Pip
 
  
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alex yates
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 13305
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OP has already lost a few hundred quid on a ppi due to the claims in the advert by FGP, whilst FGP lost no money whatsoever.

Dealers play the innocent ignorance game too much in this trade and anyone who still practices like this should be challenged.

I really don't get how FGP and some members don't get it.

Even the site owner has challenged and stood up to them for how they've behaved.
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