Welcome to 911UK
The only place for Porsche, 911uk is the definitive enthusiast and resource site for the Porsche 911.
Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so join up today for full access to the site and benefit from latest member offers.

Porsche Classifieds
Porsche Buyers Guides
Sell Your Porsche on 911uk
Create a Free Classified Advert
Search Ads
Classified Adverts FAQ
Trade Classified Information
Buyer & Seller Fraud Protection
Consumer Rights Act
Pre Purchase Inspection (PPI)
Porsche Car Sourcing
Porsche Cars Wanted
Official Porsche Centre Reviews
Model
Stock
Porsche 911
991 : 2011- 14
997 : 2004- 77
996 : 1997-2005 38
993 : 1993-1998 5
964 : 1989-1993 4
Carrera 3.2 : 1983-1989 1
Carrera SC : 1977-1983 2
930 Turbo : 1975-1989 0
Early 911 : 1964-1977 3
Porsche Other Models
Classic : 1950-1965 0
Boxster : 1997- 19
Cayman : 2005- 12
Cayenne : 2003- 5
Macan : 2014- 2
Panamera : 2009- 0
912-914-924-928-944-968 1
959 - CarreraGT - RaceCar 0
Car Parts For Sale & Wanted
Other Items For Sale & Wanted
Wheels Tyres For Sale & Wanted
Number Plates For Sale Wanted

Porsche Services
Porsche Body Shop Repair
Paint Protection & Wrapping
Porsche Classic Insurance
Porsche Classic Parts
Porsche Classic Restoration
Porsche Design Collection
Porsche Engine Gearbox Rebuild
Porsche Heritage & History
Porsche News
Porsche Picture Gallery
Win a New Porsche 911

Porsche Parts
Body Parts, Body Styling
Brakes, Clearance
Electrical, Exhausts
Engine Cooling, Engine Electrical
Engine Rebuild, Heating Cooling
Interior Incar, Lighting
Rubber Seals, Service Parts
Steering, Suspension
Transmission, Workshop Tools
Early 911, 911 - 930, 928 - 968
964 - 993, 996 - 997, Boxster
Cayman, Cayenne, Panamera

Porsche Model Range
911 [991] 2011-Current
Porsche 911 [991]
911 [997] 2004-Current
Porsche 911 [997]
911 [GT] GT1-GT2-GT3
Porsche 911 [GT]
911 [996] 1997-2005
Porsche 911 [996]
911 [993] 1993-1998
Porsche 911 [993]
911 [RS] RS-RSR
Porsche 911 [RS]
911 [964] 1989-1993
Porsche 911 [964]
911 3.2 1983-1989
Porsche 911 3.2 Carrera
911 SC 1977-1983
Porsche 911 SC
911 [Early] 1964-1977
Porsche 911 [Early]
Boxster & Cayman
Porsche Boxster & Cayman
Cayenne & Panamera
Porsche Cayenne & Panamera

911uk Site Partners

Post new topic   Reply to topic
Author Message
jonjames91
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jan 2018
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:11 pm    Post subject: Best 911 for learning track driving Reply with quote

Hello folks, first post, here goes...

I want to get into track driving and aim to develop skills so I can drive at Nurburgring. When I recently did the 911 GT and 911 Turbo S Porsche Experience at Silverstone my instructor advised against buying a GT3 or Turbo S to learn in and suggested I cut my teeth in a Carrera base model. “You wouldn’t jump straight into a Harrier Jump Jet without learning in Cessna first” was the analogy.

To this end I am looking at the 991.1 Carrera which is the lowest powered 911 I could find at 350 HP. I am avoiding the Carrera S models and I want a naturally aspirated engine avoiding turbos and low end torque. The 991.1 Carrera S has around 400 HP and the non S 991.2 Carrera, the same.

I’d be looking at the following spec to ensure the car is best equiped for track driving. Porsche Active Suspension Management, PDK gearbox, Sport Chrono Package Plus, Sports Exhaust. I’m not sure if Porsche Torque Vectoring is important.

I am keen to do the five day Academy track programme with CATdriving and ultimately want to get myself a GT3 (Turbo S if off the shortlist).

So what are your thoughs please? Does this approach make sense or should I learn in the car I will end up with, namely a GT3? Have I chosen the right car in terms of getting the lowest powered 911 around? Thanks in advance!
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2801


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just get a caterham, will be miles more fun and educational. You also won't be so scared of gravel traps.

Once the craft is learnt, a gt3 would be a fantastic road/track toy.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 14974
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're obviously not short of a few bob so I'll pitch my suggestion accordingly.

In your position I'd go for a Gen2 3.6 Carrera and strip out all the un-necessary for track bits. I'd then fit a roll cage, uprate the brakes and do as many UK track days as I could taking as much instruction as possible.

Have fun

ps. Welcome to 911uk. Keep us posted re what you decide. Thumb
_________________
2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
911UK
Porsche Community
Porsche Community


Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9899
Location: 911UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Best 911 for learning track driving Reply with quote

jonjames91 wrote:
Hello folks, first post, here goes...

I want to get into track driving and aim to develop skills so I can drive at Nurburgring. When I recently did the 911 GT and 911 Turbo S Porsche Experience at Silverstone my instructor advised against buying a GT3 or Turbo S to learn in and suggested I cut my teeth in a Carrera base model. “You wouldn’t jump straight into a Harrier Jump Jet without learning in Cessna first” was the analogy.

To this end I am looking at the 991.1 Carrera which is the lowest powered 911 I could find at 350 HP. I am avoiding the Carrera S models and I want a naturally aspirated engine avoiding turbos and low end torque. The 991.1 Carrera S has around 400 HP and the non S 991.2 Carrera, the same.

I’d be looking at the following spec to ensure the car is best equiped for track driving. Porsche Active Suspension Management, PDK gearbox, Sport Chrono Package Plus, Sports Exhaust. I’m not sure if Porsche Torque Vectoring is important.

I am keen to do the five day Academy track programme with CATdriving and ultimately want to get myself a GT3 (Turbo S if off the shortlist).

So what are your thoughs please? Does this approach make sense or should I learn in the car I will end up with, namely a GT3? Have I chosen the right car in terms of getting the lowest powered 911 around? Thanks in advance!


Hello

It somewhat also depends on your budget, if you are aiming for a GT3 then no point getting a 991 Carrera at close to GT3 money

You can get great value from a 996 and 997 Carrera or Carrera S that are excellent track cars with probably 99% of the ability of the 991 but at over half the cost if you want to start with a 911

As an example here is a Manual 360hp 997 Carrera S for £29k
https://www.rsjsportscars.co.uk/porsche_for_sale/porsche-911-997-2s-fyu/

and here is the 325hp 997 Carrera for the similar money
http://www.dovehousecars.com/car/1079-porsche-911-997--3-6-carrera-coupe

or a 385hp Gen 2 997 Carrera S for £38k
https://www.cameronsportscars.com/used-vehicle-details/Porsche-911-U579/
_________________
Get a Porsche Car Insurance Quote


FOLLOW 911UK ON FACEBOOK
 
  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
   
Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14980
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am with T8, unless you are buying a 991 GT car I feel you would be better suited to learn in the more driver involved and less refined 997 model you can buy one considerably less than a 991 the track focussed mods are readily available as you would expect from a car thats 5 to 7 yrs old . If you dink it theres a ready supply of parts at the breakers or ebay.
Buy a 997.2S mid 30k spend 10k making it track ready and bank the difference that a 991 would cost you and put that toward training ,trackdays and /or a gt3 when your ready.
Dont think that newer is better as thats very much not the case with Porsche 911s and many many guys would tell you that the even less refined and more driver focused 996 would be an even better option to cut your cloth in.

and whether your ave joe or very wealthy, I would be suggesting the same as its more about what car will give you the best feel for the track and more driver imvolved and with the exception of the 991 GT cars IMO its the 997 or 996

hope that helps Thumb Thumb
_________________
911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
jonjames91
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jan 2018
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so much for your replies! Really good advice and armed with that, I can now research the slightly older models. I’m a couple of months away from being able to get a car and the cheaper the better given I’m a complete novice, albeit with a lot of sim experience.

I’ll also look into the finding good garages that can carry out the track work.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
FZP
Sepang


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 2961
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cut my teeth in an MX5 which is a fantastic little chassis. Being under powered it taught me how to get the car set up to my driving style and how to carry speed through the apex. On many occasions, I would give the hurry to to much more powerful cars in the right sections of circuits.
It's a great car for feel, much like a caterham. You know exactly what's going on underneath you.
What ever you choose, you'll have a blast learning.
_________________
997.2 Carrera 2S GT Silver/Cocoa.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
infrasilver
Fast & Furious
Fast & Furious


Joined: 04 Oct 2010
Posts: 8084
Location: East Midlands

2001 Porsche 996 Targa

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
and whether your ave joe or very wealthy, I would be suggesting the same as its more about what car will give you the best feel for the track and more driver imvolved and with the exception of the 991 GT cars IMO its the 997 or 996


Sound advice ^^^

You will learn a lot more in a lighter more focussed car and be surprised what you can get out of a stripped out 996 3.4 with a good track suspension set up, it'll run rings around a 991 Carrera. You just won't look rich on track which for some it is all about having the latest car, personal preference.
_________________
http://euroroadtripper.blogspot.co.uk/

 
  
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
   
ragpicker
Estoril


Joined: 14 Apr 2013
Posts: 3837
Location: North East England


PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A £3k e36 328i which is already track ready.

Learn to drive without being scared of binning it, then go onto your car of choice.

You do not want to look like the Japanese corporate golfer.
_________________
996 turbo - Available to buy if you're interested: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=131025&highlight=
986 S - usually in pieces: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=112626
955 Cayenne Turbo - a work in progress: http://911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=131286&highlight=
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14980
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

infrasilver wrote:
Phil 997 wrote:
and whether your ave joe or very wealthy, I would be suggesting the same as its more about what car will give you the best feel for the track and more driver imvolved and with the exception of the 991 GT cars IMO its the 997 or 996


Sound advice ^^^

You will learn a lot more in a lighter more focussed car and be surprised what you can get out of a stripped out 996 3.4 with a good track suspension set up, it'll run rings around a 991 Carrera. You just won't look rich on track which for some it is all about having the latest car, personal preference.


Agreed you may not look super rich, but you certainly will look like you have come to seriously Race , which the ave guy in a brand new GT3RS doesn't look like and mostly doesn't drive like .There are lots of vids on you tube showing guys in older 911s flying past the new GT3RS whos only there to tick the box that says he's done the ring etc. Thumb
_________________
911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
wasz
Sepang


Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 2801


1999 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Cheap" car and expensive tuition Thumb
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
crash7
Montreal


Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 554



PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are you looking to get out of track driving?

Are you looking to lap quickly? Or do you wish to learn car craft?

If the latter, you will be wanting a clutch pedal and a manual gearbox and Rear wheel drive - In addition the less driver aids you have the better, this will allow you to learn what is going on with the car, as oppose to the car fixing mistakes without your knowledge and giving a false sense of security.

The more analog the more you will learn and more rewarding the experience, as already touched upon a Caterham is an awesome tool to learn in with zero driver aids, not even ABS!

If cash is no object, get a 996 GT3, its as analog as modern 911's come, if it is look for a C2 manual and add a few choice upgrades.

If you just want to lap quickly, get anything with a semi-auto gearbox, 350+bhp and a truckload of driver aids.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
MaxA
Barcelona


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 1390
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting idea. I would have thought that - with a decent budget - you'd be best off in a simple, cheap and track prepared car, with buckets, harnesses, cage, semi-slicks, spare rims and loads of pads and discs.

And a friendly motorsport garage to provide support.

Not to mention, a trailer and a Transit full of spares.

As such, the older BMWs, MX5s, and Caterhams all make sense.

In short, you'll need to be prepared to crash it, get it home, get it fixed, and not regret it.

You could then migrate to a faster, ex-race car, maybe a Cup car or some such, and enjoy your trackery that way.
_________________
2010 9972 C4S PDK: Carrara White, Sea Blue. Mostly driven, lightly modified, occasionally tracked, and usually a bit grubby.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
911UK
Porsche Community
Porsche Community


Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 9899
Location: 911UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MaxA wrote:
Interesting idea. I would have thought that - with a decent budget - you'd be best off in a simple, cheap and track prepared car, with buckets, harnesses, cage, semi-slicks, spare rims and loads of pads and discs.

And a friendly motorsport garage to provide support.

Not to mention, a trailer and a Transit full of spares.

As such, the older BMWs, MX5s, and Caterhams all make sense.

In short, you'll need to be prepared to crash it, get it home, get it fixed, and not regret it.

You could then migrate to a faster, ex-race car, maybe a Cup car or some such, and enjoy your trackery that way.


I would counter that with a 996 or 997, compliant to get to and from the track and still as capable around it

Still a mid engine early Cayman is equally a fine purchase and is probably the best mainstream handling Porsche outside of the GT brands
_________________
Get a Porsche Car Insurance Quote


FOLLOW 911UK ON FACEBOOK
 
  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
   
Rockunrolla
Albert Park


Joined: 27 Dec 2011
Posts: 1695
Location: Yorkshire


PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wasz wrote:
Just get a caterham, will be miles more fun and educational. You also won't be so scared of gravel traps.

Once the craft is learnt, a gt3 would be a fantastic road/track toy.



Agreed Thumb
_________________
Current -
997 C4S cab manual black
Lambo huracan
RR sport
T6 camper
Harley fat bob

Ex- FERRARI California
Ex - 991 S PDK - Aero kit guards red/yellow wrapp.
Ex - Red 997-Man Coupe-Aero kit
Ex - Silver 996 C4 Tip Cab
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14980
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

911UK wrote:
MaxA wrote:
Interesting idea. I would have thought that - with a decent budget - you'd be best off in a simple, cheap and track prepared car, with buckets, harnesses, cage, semi-slicks, spare rims and loads of pads and discs.

And a friendly motorsport garage to provide support.

Not to mention, a trailer and a Transit full of spares.

As such, the older BMWs, MX5s, and Caterhams all make sense.

In short, you'll need to be prepared to crash it, get it home, get it fixed, and not regret it.

You could then migrate to a faster, ex-race car, maybe a Cup car or some such, and enjoy your trackery that way.


I would counter that with a 996 or 997, compliant to get to and from the track and still as capable around it

Still a mid engine early Cayman is equally a fine purchase and is probably the best mainstream handling Porsche outside of the GT brands


Thats a very good point Thumb a mid engines older cayman would be a great track weapon to learn in
_________________
911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
jonjames91
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jan 2018
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even more great comments! Thanks very much for taking the time to share your thoughts on this.

I totally get the idea of the Caterham or as analogue a 911 as its posible to get. What I think will work for me is driving a car which will feel as close to a GT3 as possible but, for obvious reasons, remains low powered. The earlier comments suggesting a 997 Carrera have inspired me to look closer into that option and, I have to say, it is really appealing. The idea of taking a GEN2 and having it track preparred feels like the price/performance sweet spot. By performance, I don’t mean speed, more saftey and handling upgrades. So this car would be a stepping stone and once I feel I’ve progressed enough with it, I’d be looking to move up to the GT3.

In terms of track driving, I want to be able to drive around a track quickly and in control. I’d like to challenge myself by trying to master a rear wheeled 911. Where this journey takes me, who knows. I am very competitive and if I was any good, I’d deffinately be up for amateur racing. I’m late 40s and don’t aspire to taking it much beyond that. It’s also entirely possible that a track prepared 997 could satisfy my track needs enough and I decide a GT3 for track isn’t necessary. But really, the enjoyment of the act of driving at the limits and potentially developing to a skill level where the car becomes an extention of yourself is what brings me here.

I made contact with RPMtechnik today and had a great chat with them. They could turn a car around in about two months. Said the build itself is relatively quick, but what can take a bit of time is making parts. Next step is to get a car and visit them to work out what work needs done. I don’t have a clue about the mechanical side of things and will be entirely in their hands but here is what I’m thinking...

Car:

997 GEN2 Rear wheel drive (Non S variant as looking to get as low HP as possible)
PDK (essential for me as a personal preference having driven with paddles for years on sims)
Sport Chrono Package ? (Not sure if better with or without given the work to be carried out. RPM said it doesn’t really make a difference for them as they’d be upgrading the car)

Track Prep Work:

Full roll cage
Five point harnesses
Bucket/Sport seats
Fire extinguisher
Brake upgrade
Suspension upgrade plus PASM delete


https://rpmtechnik.co.uk

Last edited by jonjames91 on Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
kurlykris
Indianapolis


Joined: 30 Jun 2014
Posts: 2283
Location: Warwickshire


PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did my first proper trackday at the end of December, temperature was around/just above freezing and it was very wet all day Grin

I took the Boxster S over the 911 purely because of the weather ( and the brakes are crap on the 996.1 ), they really are great little cars on the track, a great way to get used to driving a Porsche quickly and not a great deal of money Thumb

I`m currently looking for a cheap, older Boxster as a purely track orientated car that I won`t weep over if I bin it, but not having much luck nooo


_________________
1998 996.1 C2 3.4 with "Aerokit Cup"
2006 Boxster S sport chrono
2010 Mercedes E350 AMG Sport

 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Phil 997
Brands Hatch
Brands Hatch


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 14980
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon , IMO your starting to head in the right direction and narrow the search RPM are very good and have a good rep on here , there are also others around as well.

Heres something to chew over rather than get a non S car how about get an S car have it remapped and do the opposite of most and back off the performance . knowing its there to map back in as your confidence grows and you start to want a bit more from the car.

the same theory applies to the PASM have a conversation with DSC in the states about their PASM upgrade module. get them to tune it to your needs again knowing you can get them to send via the web new settings for track , road, novice track etc etc. if you look at things like that it means you won't out grow the car so quickly as you would be able to dial in mods and changes as your ready for them.

Also read as much as you can on here about engine mounts, transmission mounts, gear cables etc etc. the list goes on lol.

But good to hear your narrowing things down and moving closer.

Thumb
_________________
911 Owners,Some Invest In The Future,
Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
jonjames91
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jan 2018
Posts: 6



PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great stuff Phil! That is certainly food for thought and makes a lot of sense. Thanks
 
  
View user's profile Send private message
   
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   All times are GMT - 12 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
You cannot post calendar events in this forum