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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6947
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn’t pack the bearing with anything, there is engine oil going all around the area so it will be splash fed from there. If I had packed it with grease it would have all washed out pretty quickly.

The wings aren’t hard to get off. There are a few things that need to be removed inside the wings to get to the bolts on the inside. There are two or three on the rear edge. It is all covered nicely in the workshop manual. If you don’t have a copy then PM me and I can sort you out.

MC
 
  
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NedHan79
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 443



PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. I just hear so much about the bearings that I don’t know what to believe. I’ll get a look at mine soon enough.

Cheers for the tip on the wings. Think I’ll pull bumpers and wings off outside before I roll it into the garage. That way I’ll be able to stick them up in the rafters out of the way.
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6947
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I have read on the bearings, my thoughts are as follows. This is in no way meant to be authoritative, it is just a summary of the opinions I have formed.

Whatever bearing is fitted, if you get a chance, remove the cover and check the bearing. If all appears to be OK then remove the outer seal from the bearing and fit the cover with a new seal and o-ring on the cover.

If the bearing is showing any signs of wear then replace it with a like-for-like replacement as far as possible, again without the outer seal fitted. I wouldn't go for any of the other aftermarket options personally. I would not change a bearing which appears to be fine.

MC
 
  
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6947
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The o-rings on the tensioners have been replaced by new viton o-rings.



Slight issue with trial fitting the cam covers. The fingers rise up for the oil baths for the cam lobes are too large and don't fit inside the camshaft cover so will need revising.







In the top photo you can see where they are catching on the cover, compare them to the originals at the bottom.
There is plenty of material on there as the inside profile is the same as the original so I'll get them modified until they fit.

MC
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 15950
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NedHan79 wrote:
So did you pack the bearing with grease or what is the idea there?


Roller bearings (frictionless) need very minimal lubrication to enable them to function correctly as the parts roll against each other instead of rubbing. Not only is there plenty of oil mist and spray around this area when the engine is running (especially from the chains and sprockets), but also when the engine is off and the oil back in the sump, the IMS bearing is actually submerged under the oil level.
Once the engine is started and oil pumped around, there will still be an amount of oil trapped in the outer bearing race, held there by the centrifugal force of the shaft spinning. IMHO this oil alone would be plenty enough to keep the bearing adequately lubricated whilst running.
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2000 Manual 996 C4 Arctic Silver Convertible


 
  
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6947
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Later on in the project the car will need changes to the gearbox to bring the top speed right down and match the gear spacing to the power/torque curve of the engine. To do this I have been on the lookout for a secondhand gearbox which has issues such as second gear popout or whining. No point in taking a perfectly good gearbox and tearing it apart. Up until now I had found a couple of C4 gearboxes but ideally I wanted a C2 gearbox. Yesterday I picked one up which allegedly has problems with second gear synchros. It looks like I might be going in to the gearbox rebuilding business. I need a larger press Surprised



MC
 
  
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Alex
Le Mans
Le Mans


Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 15950
Location: The Ribble Valley, Lancashire

2000 Porsche 996 Carrera 4

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least you have plenty of refreshment to keep you lubricated Laughing

4 gearboxes?? Confused
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NedHan79
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 443



PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers for the bearing info guys Thumb

Mc. Would a lower diff ratio not be an option? I’d like one for mine as I find the gearing very tall. Think the car would go well with lower ratios across the range. I need to look into a new lsd as mines had it so I’ll need to do my homework
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6947
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NedHan79 wrote:
Cheers for the bearing info guys Thumb

Mc. Would a lower diff ratio not be an option? I’d like one for mine as I find the gearing very tall. Think the car would go well with lower ratios across the range. I need to look into a new lsd as mines had it so I’ll need to do my homework


We have looked at this option. Firstly there aren't many people who do a CWP set for the G96.00 gearboxes, and the ones that are available don't give the ratios that are needed. If they did, this would make first gear really short and wouldn't fix the issue with the spacing of the gears. The requirement is to have it set up for around 140-150mph in top gear at 8000rpm. With the standard gearing you get this on 295/30 R18 tyres.

1st Gear = 72.78 km/h - 45.12 mph
2nd Gear = 126.37 km/h - 78.35 mph
3rd Gear = 182.9 km/h - 113.4 mph
4th Gear = 227.88 km/h - 141.28 mph
5th Gear = 272.56 km/h - 168.99 mph
6th Gear = 330.96 km/h - 205.2 mph

Albins do final drives in 3.00, 3.77 and 4.00. The 4.00 gets you to this.

1st Gear = 62.59 km/h - 38.8 mph
2nd Gear = 108.68 km/h - 67.38 mph
3rd Gear = 157.29 km/h - 97.52 mph
4th Gear = 195.97 km/h - 121.5 mph
5th Gear = 234.4 km/h - 145.33 mph
6th Gear = 284.63 km/h - 176.47 mph

So a step in the right direction, but not really right. I have also heard of issues with running certain LSDs with the Albins CWP set. So unless anybody knows of any better options, it is looking like custom stuff which would probably mean keeping 1st and 2nd the same, then having replacements for 3-6.

MC
 
  
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NedHan79
Nürburgring


Joined: 08 Nov 2018
Posts: 443



PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never looked into it and not sure I’d bother with the cost but I will look into an lsd but it’s way down the list. I’m assuming a new bespoke gear set would be pretty pricey and way outa my league.
What’s the standard rpm limit? 7k? I hit it but don’t be looking at it when i do
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6947
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No indication of the costs yet, but I will report back.

I needed another crank and heads for my spare engine, this arrived today. It is a 3.2 from a Boxster and the block will be heading up north to be converted to a 3.7l. The ancillaries which match the 3.4l engine will be fitted to my spare block and heads for mocking up the intake system. I heard the engine running before it was pulled so hopefully no bad suprises in store.



MC
 
  
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6947
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have spoken with the company who do the machining and there is no problem with getting the chest back on the CNC machine to have it modified. So off it comes....



Old one put back on, haven't bothered torqueing anything up as it won't be started or even turned over until it is back together. I like to keep it assembled as much as possible so I know where the parts are.



One of the coils is cracked so that will be replaced. The others all looked fine so I'll keep them as they are.



Tappet chest needs cleaning up, then ready to go.



MC
 
  
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6947
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The standard engine from my C4 has been taken off the stand...



The Boxster 3.2l engine I have has gone on the stand. I now need to see which components from this:



Are the same as the components on this:



And put any ones which are the same on to this:



The rest of the engine will then be stripped down so that the bottom end can be converted to 3.7l and the heads can go off for porting.

MC
 
  
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6947
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have done a bit of work on the dashboard software. Using the current engine speed and vehicle speed it calculates the gear from a set of ratio limits in the software. The gear value is then used for a lookup table for the engine speed to use for the shift light. It switches between two sets of tables based on oil temperature, so you can have a lower shift light value set until the engine warms up.

I haven't sorted out where to fit the shift light at the moment, currently it just goes to a wire which could come out of the back of the cluster.



MC
 
  
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skinny_monkey
Nürburgring


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 414



PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does that give you over just using rpm - do you want different shift lights per gear?
 
  
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6947
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2019 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

skinny_monkey wrote:
What does that give you over just using rpm - do you want different shift lights per gear?


Yes, If you want to change at 8k you need the shift light to come on 1 second or so before you hit 8k. This will be much lower in 1st than in 2nd or 3rd. If you could change gear instantly it wouldn't be an issue.

MC
 
  
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PeterS
Fuji


Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 9269
Location: Solihull

2003 Porsche 996 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MisterCorn wrote:
skinny_monkey wrote:
What does that give you over just using rpm - do you want different shift lights per gear?


Yes, If you want to change at 8k you need the shift light to come on 1 second or so before you hit 8k. This will be much lower in 1st than in 2nd or 3rd. If you could change gear instantly it wouldn't be an issue.

MC


I suppose that is [one of] the difference between me and you. I work on and hone my gear-changing skills, you devise a program and engineer it to give the required solution.

(Top work, BTW) thumbsup
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skinny_monkey
Nürburgring


Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 414



PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MisterCorn wrote:
skinny_monkey wrote:
What does that give you over just using rpm - do you want different shift lights per gear?


Yes, If you want to change at 8k you need the shift light to come on 1 second or so before you hit 8k. This will be much lower in 1st than in 2nd or 3rd. If you could change gear instantly it wouldn't be an issue.

MC


Hadn't thought about the delay time before. It's not so much changing gear necessarily worth the timing as initiating the change tho right, or have i misunderstood?
The dash set up will have several sequential lights for shift, like 7,7.5, 8k rpm?
 
  
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MisterCorn
Long Beach


Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 6947
Location: Nottingham, England

2004 Porsche 996 Turbo

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was only going to go for the one light. If you do multiple ones then it makes it more awkward to set up again as you need different values of each gears.

The thinking is exactly as you say. You are driving along, the light comes on, you need to register the light and react to it. The revs will continue to rise until you have come right off the accelerator, so it is the time from when the light comes on until you come of the accelerator. I haven't any good data from the C4 but I did look at this on my turbo not long ago. Admittedly the turbo is running a lot more power so the effect will be more pronounced, but it is also running longer gearing and weighs more. First gear.....



You might not be able to see on there, but this shows that it took 0.2s from starting to come off the accelerator until the engine reached peak RPM. During this time the revs rose from 6100 to 7050rpm. That was at 84% throttle.

Same for second gear.


In this case 0.4s from starting to lift off, from just over 90% throttle, until the engine revs peak. During that time the revs rose from 6500 to 7000 revs. In terms of the rates of rev rise I see the following:

First gear, 3300 – 6800rpm, 1 second
Second gear, 5300 – 6850rpm, 1 second

So if you assume 0.2s from starting to lift off until peak revs, and a 0.3s reaction time, from when the light comes on until you start to lift. To get a shift point of 6800rpm you would set the light at 5250rpm in first and around 6100 in 2nd. That way you can be as consistent as possible when the lights come on and get the desired shift point.

Depending on the power curve I will probably set the limit lower in first to give some headroom, as you can see on the turbo the revs rise at such a speed it is really easy to hit the limiter. If you are off by 0.2s you can have an extra 1000rpm Surprised

MC
 
  
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steve r
Monza


Joined: 26 Sep 2011
Posts: 211



PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MisterCorn wrote:
If ever you wanted to know how to fit the Cup shift cables to the standard 998/986 shift housing, this is the video for you.


Open Youtube Page


MC


This encouraged me to get going with my Cup Cables so i checked what I have as mine came with some of the parts needed. One part was a metal clip that holds the larger cable into the shift housing without the need for the retaining plate. It locks into the housing in the same way at the plastic one on the smaller cable does. Its a 986 part: 986.424.411.00





The ball ends with the same dimensions as the Porsche supplied ones can also be bought for a few quid from here, bound to be a lot cheaper than Porsche charge:

https://www.sgs-engineering.com/b9-metal-ball-socket?___store=sgs_en&refSrc=1608&nosto=nosto-page-product1



Hope that helps
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Last edited by steve r on Mon May 13, 2019 6:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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