How to make a 997.1 reliable ?

Everyone on this forum knows of the potential pitfalls of a 997.1, but they are plentiful on the market, look great and drive well.

What is the current thinking on making the 997.1 engine, 3.6 and 3.8 reliable (or bulletproof, though I don't intend shooting any engines)?

What would this entail ? replacement LN Engineering IMS ?

What can you do to avoid bore scoring ? Some have suggested changing the thermostat and improving the cooling. Also that changing the oil more often helps.

D-Chunk and ovalisation - apart from not driving it, is the Hartech reengineering the only option.

Am I only hearing the horror stories and there are plenty of 997.1 that don't suffer from these problems ?

I quick look in the classifieds show that a significant number, say 4 out of 10 have had engine rebuilds or replacements, that indicates to me it's a significant problem.

Any one on here had their 997.1 rebuilt with all the preventative measures ? What has been your experience ?

Your thoughts ?

D-chunking was early 3.4 996 engines......and infant mortalities at that.....not the 997.

Some do the thermostat and use different oil. You might as well drive it and not take it to Hartech until bore problems exist. For Tips it's worth using 1st gear to start moving.

4 in 10. Oh dear. It is nowhere near that. No one really knows for certain, but knowledgeable people on here seems to think under 5%.

I have a 2007 C2S Cabrio, manual.
I do this: (and don't worry to much about it, because I am pretty certain mine is a good one)

Wait until the oil temperature is rising, and preferably close to 90 degrees, before going over 3000rpm.
Change the oil every years, not every service at 2 years.
Talk to your local friendly indy about which oil to use, it depends on mileage.
IMS was upgraded late 2005, so check the engine number against the range of numbers for old or new one. New one isn't a problem at all. I stayed away from 2005 cars for this reason, but there are some 2006 registered cars with the old IMS.
Tiptronic can cause bore scoring more often than manual, because the car likes to pull away in 2nd, which stresses the engine more.
Get any car you might buy checked out properly and bores checked.
A full service history is essential. It isn't about mileage, it is about condition. If looked after these cars will go on for a long time. A car with 30,000 miles which hasn't been looked after can easily be much worse than one with 80,000 which has been looked after.

Don't listen to people on the internet who say these cars are awful, they aren't. There are 2 main known issues, both of which can be checked as above. They are incredible cars, can be used as daily drivers (I do) with ease and do everything brilliantly, be it nipping to the shops, going away for the weekend or blasting down a great road.

The issues are no where near 4 in 10 that is just the imballance of guys with an issue shouting across the internet about it versus the many many guys who have no issues not saying anything on the internet as who posts "drove my 997.1 today guess what no problems" it just doesnt happen.
1/It is widely accepted that the 3.6 engine is a stronger unit and less likely to have borescore thats not never but less likely.
2/ the tip box due to the default pulling away in second adds strain and as such is considered to be more of a risk than a manual box 997.1
3/ the IMS is only an issue in pre march 06 cars although some late 05 and early 06 cars also have the newer better IMS the info on engine numbers pre and post is available on here and other places .

So in theory if you want a 997.1 with minimum risk of Borescore choose a 3.6 manual , having said that there are many many thousands of very sound 997.1 3.8S out there.

Things to do to minimise the known risks
when looking for one get an independant PPI and borescope from an experienced tech who can tell the difference between normal age related bore scuff and real scoring. this will ensure you have a sound car to start with.
next.
look at buying a post March 06 car or one with the newer IMS or factor in 1k to retro fit the aftermarket IMS you cannot retro fit the newer OE IMS bearings.
Change the oil to millers nano 10w50 (hartech recommended) the borescore is caused partly by oil starvation which is why its mostly found on cylinders 4 and 6 as these get the lowest feed of oil added to the fact that the flat 6 engine due to design is not very good at retaining oil residue when parked a thicker viscosity oil goes a long way in addressing these things.
Change the oil annually or at 10k miles and not at the 20k 2yr recomended by Porsche.
fit a LTT.
always stay under 3k RPM until the car is fully warmed up.
If you must have a tip consider driving it on the rockers/paddles that way you are in first to pull away and have control over the gear change.

You will read things on the internet like" its not if but when" the 997 engine will need a rebuild, this is such a weak arguement as any engine of any marque will eventually fail and need a rebuild given enough miles so IMO statements like that are to be ignored.

Also worth mentioning that the widely thrown around price of 12k for a rebuild is often not explained and is usually because the owner has decided while the cars being rebuilt that they will upgrade or modify parts , but to find you have scoring on cylinders 4 and 6 this can be fixed by rebuilding just one bank or just the damaged cylinder this will cost far less that the magic number of 12k

To try any put things into perspective
I brought my 2006 997.1 tip with 45k miles kept it 4 years sold it with 89k miles and when it was borescoped prior to sale it was clean as a whistle.
I had followed the mininise risk guidance I mentioned above.

So dont be put off these stunning cars but do buy eyes open and follow the recomended guidelines. and remember the percentage of cars with issues v the number of cars built is very very low maybe 5%.
:thumb: :thumb:

Should also say, a lot of 2005 cars will of had the IMS done already. Any seller should know. It's a relatively easy job when a clutch is being changed, and most cars will of had that done at least once!

resigner said:

Should also say, a lot of 2005 cars will of had the IMS done already. Any seller should know. It's a relatively easy job when a clutch is being changed, and most cars will of had that done at least once!

Click to expand...

.......but I personally wouldn't think that was ok as I've seen evidence of 'done' cars failing too.

alex yates said:

resigner said:

Should also say, a lot of 2005 cars will of had the IMS done already. Any seller should know. It's a relatively easy job when a clutch is being changed, and most cars will of had that done at least once!

Click to expand...

.......but I personally wouldn't think that was ok as I've seen evidence of 'done' cars failing too.

Click to expand...

Really.

Demort, over to you!

In 8 years as a daily drive I have been let down once by my car.

That was a coil pack failure, 2 at once and that has to be put down to wear and tear really.

resigner said:

alex yates said:

resigner said:

Should also say, a lot of 2005 cars will of had the IMS done already. Any seller should know. It's a relatively easy job when a clutch is being changed, and most cars will of had that done at least once!

Click to expand...

.......but I personally wouldn't think that was ok as I've seen evidence of 'done' cars failing too.

Click to expand...

Really.

Click to expand...

Yes really - speak to Hartech.

and in my data collection thread for 996 ims bearings, out of the 7 failures, one of them was an LN engineering bearing.

I think the "less than 5%" relates to IMS failure.

I totally believe 4 in 10 to be fair.
Mr Hartech reckons every 997.1 engine will score. It's a case of if not when.

Don't make me find his post that says that please. They read like war and peace at the best of times. :sleepy:

resigner said:

4 in 10. Oh dear. It is nowhere near that. No one really knows for certain, but knowledgeable people on here seems to think under 5%.

I have a 2007 C2S Cabrio, manual.
I do this: (and don't worry to much about it, because I am pretty certain mine is a good one)

Wait until the oil temperature is rising, and preferably close to 90 degrees, before going over 3000rpm.
Change the oil every years, not every service at 2 years.
Talk to your local friendly indy about which oil to use, it depends on mileage.
IMS was upgraded late 2005, so check the engine number against the range of numbers for old or new one. New one isn't a problem at all. I stayed away from 2005 cars for this reason, but there are some 2006 registered cars with the old IMS.
Tiptronic can cause bore scoring more often than manual, because the car likes to pull away in 2nd, which stresses the engine more.
Get any car you might buy checked out properly and bores checked.
A full service history is essential. It isn't about mileage, it is about condition. If looked after these cars will go on for a long time. A car with 30,000 miles which hasn't been looked after can easily be much worse than one with 80,000 which has been looked after.

Don't listen to people on the internet who say these cars are awful, they aren't. There are 2 main known issues, both of which can be checked as above. They are incredible cars, can be used as daily drivers (I do) with ease and do everything brilliantly, be it nipping to the shops, going away for the weekend or blasting down a great road.

Click to expand...

I counted the ones for sale on pistonheads, ebay and autotrader. It varies of course, but once I did the count, it was 4 out of 10 cars had new engines or a rebuild.

I'd like a a C2S 3.8 with factory aero kit in manual. There aren't that many for sale. I can afford to buy the car, the Insurance and servicing. Changing the IMS and clutch is doable too, but not £12k repair costs. I've also been looking at 996tt, but those prices ! They have their own issues too, as with any other car.

Ive had my engine rebuilt with new pistons, liners, chains, saddle, IMS (large bearing from the US), RMS, LTT, Centre Radiator fitted, clutch the whole lot as the list is bigger than the encyclopaedia that any reputable engine builder will do, and ££££ later the car is still running in and pulls like a Fookin Train as I don't drive as much as I should as regards to company car etc.. and I cant say I look back cos the car is " Simply Luvleh " :grin:

Too many horror stories on the internet only for Porsche garages to gain out of peoples misery from my understanding....

J

alex yates said:

resigner said:

alex yates said:

resigner said:

Should also say, a lot of 2005 cars will of had the IMS done already. Any seller should know. It's a relatively easy job when a clutch is being changed, and most cars will of had that done at least once!

Click to expand...

.......but I personally wouldn't think that was ok as I've seen evidence of 'done' cars failing too.

Click to expand...

Really.

Click to expand...

Yes really - speak to Hartech.

Click to expand...

Baz. Over to you. Suspect it isn't exactly what you would call widespread.

OP, my car has been great. Had Coil Packs done under warranty, they do wear out, but won't cause a problem as such other than making it go a bit raspy and not work properly, no damage per se.

non bose ASK amps are useless and fail, mine is being fixed properly by Tore in Norway who knows how to. Had a collant hose go bad, pretty normal wear and tear, again, simple fix, no damage. That's all in over 2.5 years of fabulous driving in a 911

Ignore the doom mongers!!! (yes you Alex )