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SGH
Monza


Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 165
Location: East Sussex


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject: 997 C2 / TARGA 4S / GTS Reply with quote

This will be my first 911 and having now tested and rejected quite a few models and vehicles I have nearly narrowed my search down to these three.

My maxed out budget would be £70k.

1. 997 C2
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201712302344570?make=PORSCHE&radius=1500&model=911

2. 997 TARGA 4S
http://locator.porsche.com/ipl-customer/ipl/details/details.ipl?cid=1

3. 997 GTS
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201712222241072?make=PORSCHE&model=911&logcode=p

I know totally different vehicles but my question is which of the three will offer me the least depreciation long term?

Am I really getting a better vehicle for my extra £20k+ between the C2 and GTS as it seems huge jump, could it be a big fall come resale ?

Last edited by SGH on Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:20 am; edited 1 time in total
 
  
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FZP
Albert Park


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 1711
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GTS is already being considered a modern classic. Depending on how long you keep it will depend on depreciation. Short term you will take a dealer hit for their margin. Long term should see it hold it's value.
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 13708
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The GTS is a far superior 911 to the other two but all are great 911s. All three seem to be priced accordingly.

Whether you want to spend the extra £20k on your first 911 is something only you can decide.

Depreciation (beyond the dealer premium) shouldn't be much of an issue on any Gen2 997. The GTS is the safest bet for that but whether that would justify the extra £££s ....... Dont know
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2007 Guards Red 997 Turbo Tiptronic
ex 2004 Polar Silver 996T Tiptronic
ex 2002 Seal Grey 996.2 C4 Tiptronic
ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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tom_nieto
Monza


Joined: 08 Jan 2017
Posts: 150



PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It really depends on whether you want to spend £45k or £70k! The GTS will be faster and has a few more options, but that C2 looks absolutely lovely. Strong money for a C2, but the red and all the options probably explain that.

What sort of cars have you had previously? The 997 C2 is still an absolute peach to drive and is plenty fast enough!
 
  
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Phil 997
Donnington
Donnington


Joined: 05 Dec 2015
Posts: 12383
Location: Bournemouth,Dorset

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can stretch to 70k without a problem then go for the GTS if your going to be stretching hard and due to that may have to part with the car early if other factors in your life change then go for a nice 3.8 gen2 for under 50k as you will sleep better and have more years of enjoyment from it.
The main thing I see happen when guys buy these cars with future value in mind is they become paranoid about the mileage and dont actually fully enjoy the car. which takes away a big piece of the ownership of a 911 when it becomes just a garage ornament .
So give a thought to that when deciding what to buy, personally I would rather have a 25k gen1 that I could drive and enjoy putting as many miles on as I wanted thats done its depreciation and 50/60k added to the miles would only knock a couple of grand off the price, than a 70k gen2 GTS that was going to sit in the garage because of depreciation. Thumb Thumb
probably not the answer you wanted to hear but it should be considered. Grin
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Others Enjoy The Moment Today.
 
  
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jpsh120
Hockenheim


Joined: 30 Aug 2015
Posts: 640
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How often will you be using the car?

If it is a weekend toy then I would be adding 996 GT3 to your list....

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/porsche/911-gt3-996/porsche-911-996-gt3-------------------2003/7781644
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HSC911
Reims


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 4068
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that was the best example to use Sad

Grin
 
  
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T8
General
General


Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 13708
Location: Kent


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ps. Regarding depreciation on all three cars.

As well as the usual dealer premium there is also a significant 'well below average mileage' premium being applied to these particular cars.

The more the cars are driven the more that will be eroded come resale time. Also bear in mind that average mileage for a 4-15 year old 911 is only about 7k miles per annum.

Good Luck
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ex 1978 Silver 924 Manual
 
  
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Kith
Newbie


Joined: 25 Sep 2016
Posts: 15
Location: Nottingham, UK


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's clearly a 'collectors premium' with the GTS that will erode substantially with mileage. It's a great car but the premium over a regular 997 is not rationally justifiable. If you keep the mileage low then it would be the one to go for.

The link to the Targa 4S doesn't seem to work but in my experience, these things hold their value extremely well, despite being somewhat compromised in terms of weight and looks (IMO). Local OPC has one up at the moment for more than the amount they sold the same car for a year and 7,000 miles ago.
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SGH
Monza


Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 165
Location: East Sussex


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tom_nieto wrote:
It really depends on whether you want to spend £45k or £70k! The GTS will be faster and has a few more options, but that C2 looks absolutely lovely. Strong money for a C2, but the red and all the options probably explain that.

What sort of cars have you had previously? The 997 C2 is still an absolute peach to drive and is plenty fast enough!


Speed is not a priority where can you do it here in UK and just got my licence clean again Smile

I have had Land Rovers for the last 20+ years and suffered great depreciation on last Discovery 3 and 4's owned.

I have four other vehicles so this will be a fine weather weekend toy.
 
  
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SGH
Monza


Joined: 06 Jan 2018
Posts: 165
Location: East Sussex


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil 997 wrote:
If you can stretch to 70k without a problem then go for the GTS if your going to be stretching hard and due to that may have to part with the car early if other factors in your life change then go for a nice 3.8 gen2 for under 50k as you will sleep better and have more years of enjoyment from it.
The main thing I see happen when guys buy these cars with future value in mind is they become paranoid about the mileage and dont actually fully enjoy the car. which takes away a big piece of the ownership of a 911 when it becomes just a garage ornament .
So give a thought to that when deciding what to buy, personally I would rather have a 25k gen1 that I could drive and enjoy putting as many miles on as I wanted thats done its depreciation and 50/60k added to the miles would only knock a couple of grand off the price, than a 70k gen2 GTS that was going to sit in the garage because of depreciation. Thumb Thumb
probably not the answer you wanted to hear but it should be considered. Grin


Thumb
 
  
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TheCock
Kyalami


Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 1941
Location: Poole

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve just done a similar exercise with a similar budget and ended up with a 20k mile manual 2010 997 C2. I’ve been there with a ‘collectible’ 911 previously and Phil is spot on with his advice on (potentially) finding yourself worrying about depreciation and mileage and thereby creating an investment rather than a toy to enjoy. Having said all that if you want an investment then start again and pick some more exotic creatures!

The three cars you mention will drive differently so I’d get in a few - I went searching for pdk wide body cars and bought a narrow body manual! No-one on here knows for sure what will happen with depreciation or everyone would own a 964RS that they paid £20k for 10years ago, a 993Turbo they paid £40k for and a 996GT2 they bought for £45k in 2012! All worth £150k - £200k today!

My advice is to firstly drive a few and pick the one you like best, you’re wise to select from your shortlist (good choices) but if it’s a weekend car which mine is you mustn’t be put off using it, you’ll only add 3-5k miles anyway. If it doesn’t depreciate you’ve had a result, if it does you enjoyed your car and you’re normal. If you want a ‘sure fire’ appreciating asset then pick something more exotic, polish it, drive it to the MOT station and sit at home writing on here about how clever you are! Ha!


Grin Grin Grin
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1996 993 Carrera S, Vesuvius with Steel Grey
1994 968 Sport, Slate Grey
 
  
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TheCock
Kyalami


Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 1941
Location: Poole

1996 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheCock wrote:
I’ve just done a similar exercise with a similar budget and ended up with a 20k mile manual 2010 997 C2. I’ve been there with a ‘collectible’ 911 previously and Phil is spot on with his advice on (potentially) finding yourself worrying about depreciation and mileage and thereby creating an investment rather than a toy to enjoy. Having said all that if you want an investment then start again and pick some more exotic creatures!

The three cars you mention will drive differently so I’d get in a few - I went searching for pdk wide body cars and bought a narrow body manual! No-one on here knows for sure what will happen with depreciation or everyone would own a 964RS that they paid £20k for 10years ago, a 993Turbo they paid £40k for and a 996GT2 they bought for £45k in 2012! All worth £150k - £200k today!

My advice is to firstly drive a few and pick the one you like best, you’re wise to select from your shortlist (good choices) but if it’s a weekend car which mine is you mustn’t be put off using it, you’ll only add 3-5k miles anyway. If it doesn’t depreciate you’ve had a result, if it does you enjoyed your car and you’re normal. If you want a ‘sure fire’ appreciating asset then pick something more exotic, polish it, drive it to the MOT station and sit at home writing on here about how clever you are! Ha!


Grin Grin Grin


Oh....and if you go down the appreciating route be prepared for the never ending pain of selling it only to find out it then continues to sky rocket in value afterwards, even though when you sold it for £20k more than you paid everyone said you were insane and no-one would pay the extortionate amount you asked. Ha! (Twitch)
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1994 968 Sport, Slate Grey
 
  
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jpsh120
Hockenheim


Joined: 30 Aug 2015
Posts: 640
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HSC911 wrote:
I don't think that was the best example to use Sad

Grin


What do you know that I don't Question
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toffeeman
Monza


Joined: 05 Mar 2009
Posts: 188



PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpsh120 wrote:
HSC911 wrote:
I don't think that was the best example to use Sad

Grin


What do you know that I don't Question


From memory, I think that particular GT3 has “history”. I think it was crashed and rebuilt or something along those lines. There was a thread about it on here a few weeks/months back.
 
  
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HSC911
Reims


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 4068
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpsh120 wrote:
What do you know that I don't Question


http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=118405

Sad
 
  
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jpsh120
Hockenheim


Joined: 30 Aug 2015
Posts: 640
Location: Somerset


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah OK, my bad Embarassed

Presumably though, a (good) 996 GT3 would be considered a good option in that price bracket??
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HSC911
Reims


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 4068
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpsh120 wrote:
Ah OK, my bad Embarassed

Presumably though, a (good) 996 GT3 would be considered a good option in that price bracket??


No need to apologise, I was just taking the pee Grin

But I agree with you, this man needs a 996 GT3 in his life Thumb
 
  
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spongebob squarepants
Paul Ricard


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 3292
Location: Manchester and Iraq


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP, nice dilemma and one I had recently. I have always wanted (and still do) a 997 GTS. I was looking at the same 70k bracket.It had to be white, with the centre locks, the coloured hardbacks and low mileage.
In the end I sort of gave up, most dont have a leather dash, and have been specced with leather rather than the more desirable 'GTS Alcantara'. Then I spotted a lovely 997.2 C4S and bought that for virtually 20 k less.

In the end I couldnt justify the extra. Normally a few weeks in I regret every car I bought, but not with the 4S! I just questioned on a PDK car am i really going to notice the extra BHP? plus both are widebody, the 4S gives me as close as I can get to the GTS. So for me anyway no GTS and the yearning has gone.

For yourself? Would you love the base carerra 3.6 enough? For me thats a little close to 2/4S money?

Whatever you decide stick to your guns on the low miles, it will make a huge difference in future, no one buys these cars to sell, however you always will! So depreciation matters (alot). The GTS is rock solid, especailly a low miles one in the 'best' colour, buy low miles you can actually drive the thing!
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silvermilnec
Barcelona


Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 1285
Location: Leeds West Yorkshire


PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are in the right place, phil will spend your money be warned!!

Also be warned these cars are addictive!!

I’d also throw in try a 991 at £70k you would get a good low mileage 4S with a full glass roof! I wanted a targa but my indy put me off saying he seen leaks into the ecu.

What about a Turbo?

As all ready said, try as many as you can they are all different.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.
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