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wozy
Imola


Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 839
Location: Worcestershire


PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Just put my manual C2 993 up for sale £32,500.00 Reply with quote

tyinsky wrote:
wozy wrote:


It always amases me that the 993 is probs the only aircooled 911 that generally you rarely seen clocked...


Really doubt this. I’ve seen plenty of dubious ones for sale that simply don’t look like the wear and the miles match up. Cars with their engine in the workshop that have done a lowly 60k but have shot exhaust valves, spark plugs that look like they have done LeMans yet the stamps say a measly figure in the book each year. These cars are 20+ years old and the odometer can be wriggled forward and unplugged, swapped out, a switch installed under the dash and so on. I remember it being rife in the 90s on Golf GTIs after discovering mine had been clocked. There is more money at stake now and for sure it goes on. As it also does on computer odometers in the 997 and 991 to avoid extra payments before handing them back. I view them all as potential clocked cars including my own on over 150k - how would I or anyone else be able to verify the unknown?

Agree with the 993 playing catch up now to the 964. It’s time will come - and it will be interesting when it does as it has never been unloved.


I did say generally. Smile I compare 993s to the 964 and earlier 3.2 and SC. You just dont seem to find so many of such high mileage of the latter three than you do the 993 IMO.
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HSC911
Reims


Joined: 23 Jul 2014
Posts: 4111
Location: Bedford


PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surprised

You sure you're not even a little bit related to George Eaton Dont know

Grin
 
  
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pierrebear
Silverstone


Joined: 27 Sep 2017
Posts: 104
Location: Jersey


PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MattyR - sad times indeed! I am absolutely certain that it'll get snapped up at that price VERY shortly indeed (I would if I hadn't bought mine quite recently).
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Palladium
Indianapolis


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2480



PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when its sold mattyr, do you see yourself getting back into air-cooled one day, or is that your itch scratched?

good luck with this sale, its a beautiful colour.

palladium.
 
  
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tyinsky
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 331
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wozy, I’ve never really looked closely at anything earlier than a 964. Nice to know I’m not alone in acknowledging it has been going on forever and still is. thumbsup

MattyR, that car will sell fast. Looks an absolute bargain. I would of bought it if I was looking for one. Hope the new house makes everyone happy Smile
 
  
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MattyR
Montreal


Joined: 21 Sep 2015
Posts: 520
Location: Somewhere Nr Tunbridge Wells, Kent


PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhh, thanks for all the comments chaps. I have a couple of interested parties already so fingers crossed.

Spread the word: there is no cheaper manual 993 on the planet (that’s probably true).
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MattyR
Montreal


Joined: 21 Sep 2015
Posts: 520
Location: Somewhere Nr Tunbridge Wells, Kent


PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palladium wrote:
when its sold mattyr, do you see yourself getting back into air-cooled one day, or is that your itch scratched?

good luck with this sale, its a beautiful colour.

palladium.


Mate it’s a diffucult one. I’m an enthusiast who’s dream car has always been a 993. Basically a combination of lack of use and a little cottage we have fallen in love with has meant the old girl is up for sale.

So, lacking the deeper pockets of some of the other gentlemen here, my air cooled flirtation is probably over for now. BUT, one day I do plan on nabbing a 356 coupe. That’s my next port of call, but probably a ratty little outlaw I can tinker with. That or a 912...
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Jay.
Nürburgring


Joined: 20 Oct 2015
Posts: 448
Location: Brize Norton


PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given it a share to a couple of buddies who are after one Smile Hopefully they get in touch!


Looks a lovely car, Matty!
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Porsche911fan
Newbie


Joined: 02 Oct 2017
Posts: 2



PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Just put my manual C2 993 up for sale £32,500.00 Reply with quote

Hi,

I work at JZM so if you have any questions please feel free to PM me. I don't think the Vesuvius C2S with us is your old car, the clock has been taken out and there are no signs that it has ever been tampered with or taken apart so it has not been clocked.
 



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tyinsky
Spa-Francorchamps


Joined: 29 Jun 2012
Posts: 331
Location: London, UK

1997 Porsche 993 Carrera 2S

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Just put my manual C2 993 up for sale £32,500.00 Reply with quote

Porsche911fan wrote:
Hi,

I work at JZM so if you have any questions please feel free to PM me. I don't think the Vesuvius C2S with us is your old car, the clock has been taken out and there are no signs that it has ever been tampered with or taken apart so it has not been clocked.


So you are able to prove that instrument has never been swapped out for another one for periods of time, unplugged, or had a switch installed stopping the power to it?
 
  
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kas750
Estoril


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 3715
Location: Chorley lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It’s seconds to take one out and swap
 
  
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cableguy
Albert Park


Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 1514
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Just put my manual C2 993 up for sale £32,500.00 Reply with quote

Porsche911fan wrote:
Hi,

I work at JZM so if you have any questions please feel free to PM me. I don't think the Vesuvius C2S with us is your old car, the clock has been taken out and there are no signs that it has ever been tampered with or taken apart so it has not been clocked.


Hi there,

That's definitely my old car, unmistakable with all the bits that are on it. Check Exel Wheels website, I bought the Hollow Spokes and had them custom painted in body colour by Chris. I still have the original plates sat in my garage as I used my PP on the car.
If you're certain on the clocks then maybe they have been swapped.

C.
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Palladium
Indianapolis


Joined: 01 Nov 2015
Posts: 2480



PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clocking is rife, always has been, always will be,

or keeping the miles way low in the first 3 years before mot,

Always be wary of a car up for sale after 3 or 4 years, especially one that would be an ideal taxi.

my thinking is, that most cars are clocked including mine, i don't believe high owner, low mileage cars, but i also believe there are true low milers.

if i bought mattyr's car, i would be happy, as the mileage is believable and realistic, its also good for 250k if looked after, possibly many more. Thumb
 
  
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kas750
Estoril


Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 3715
Location: Chorley lancashire

2006 Porsche 911

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I won’t repeat my post from a couple of years ago about the goings on with 964 and 993 cars when they were new as it ruffled a few feathers but please anyone looking for one of these just buy on condition.
 
  
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Jet Jock
Montreal


Joined: 18 Jul 2005
Posts: 500
Location: Dublin


PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Just put my manual C2 993 up for sale £32,500.00 Reply with quote

cableguy wrote:
Porsche911fan wrote:
Hi,

I work at JZM so if you have any questions please feel free to PM me. I don't think the Vesuvius C2S with us is your old car, the clock has been taken out and there are no signs that it has ever been tampered with or taken apart so it has not been clocked.


Hi there,

That's definitely my old car, unmistakable with all the bits that are on it. Check Exel Wheels website, I bought the Hollow Spokes and had them custom painted in body colour by Chris. I still have the original plates sat in my garage as I used my PP on the car.
If you're certain on the clocks then maybe they have been swapped.

C.


Thank God for the power of the interweb. May be an innocent oversight by the current vendor but not by the previous owner(cableguy ) I think for any doubt the current seller should post up the reason why they don’t think it’s your car. And a mate of mine was interested in this too.

Baz Thumb
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madalaa
Fuji


Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 9141
Location: West London

2009 Porsche Boxster (987)

PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Just put my manual C2 993 up for sale £32,500.00 Reply with quote

...... Pop Corn
 
  
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jonttt
Shanghai


Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 4611
Location: Liverpool


PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can only echo that you can only buy these cars on mileage if the condition supports that and ALL paperwork backs it up. All 3 of these have to be in sync but the one which is much harder to fake is condition. When I was looking 5 years ago (is it really that long) I saw a variation of cars who’s mileage simply did not reflect their condition. Nb that works both ways ie a LOT tattier than the mileage suggested and a LOT better than you would expect for the mileage.

Its also worth noting that tatty low mileage cars does not mean they have been clocked. I’ve seen plenty of newish cars with lowish mileage that are dogs. Some owners just don’t care especially in the first few years when the cars are newish and they are just a “tool” to get from A to B and the mileage simply reflects low but hard use ie frequent short trips. Fast forward 20 years and that car can then be “low” mileage but still reflects the abuse of the first owner.

The simple fact is only in very rare circumstances can you be 100% sure. What you can be 100% sure about is that you buy a car for a price that you are happy with that reflects its conditions, documented history and mileage. However, there is no getting around mileage will always be a factor in price, probably more than any other.
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cableguy
Albert Park


Joined: 10 Sep 2007
Posts: 1514
Location: North Yorkshire


PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JZM have a real presence in the Porsche trade and I am in no way bad mouthing or questioning their business practices.

The fact is that the Vesuvius car currently advertised is definitely my old car from a few years ago. Not sure of the exact date but I have posted plenty on the car on this forum so dates are easily confirmed. I sold the car to an independent Porsche Dealer/Specialist and it had more miles on than the car shows now.
Of course there could have been an issue with the original clocks and they may have been swapped? Hopefully there will be a paperwork trail as to where the extra miles were lost.

I am also an advocate for buying on condition over mileage and would much rather buy a car with higher miles and a comprehensive history, rather than a low miler with history gaps and issues. Each to their own...

C.
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NIBrown
Nürburgring


Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 377
Location: South Wales


PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cableguy wrote:
JZM have a real presence in the Porsche trade and I am in no way bad mouthing or questioning their business practices.

The fact is that the Vesuvius car currently advertised is definitely my old car from a few years ago. Not sure of the exact date but I have posted plenty on the car on this forum so dates are easily confirmed. I sold the car to an independent Porsche Dealer/Specialist and it had more miles on than the car shows now.


C.


Wouldn't a registration number prove this one way or another?
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tim993
Zolder


Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 5057
Location: Hampshire


PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Just put my manual C2 993 up for sale £32,500.00 Reply with quote

cableguy wrote:
Porsche911fan wrote:
Hi,

I work at JZM so if you have any questions please feel free to PM me. I don't think the Vesuvius C2S with us is your old car, the clock has been taken out and there are no signs that it has ever been tampered with or taken apart so it has not been clocked.


Hi there,

That's definitely my old car, unmistakable with all the bits that are on it. Check Exel Wheels website, I bought the Hollow Spokes and had them custom painted in body colour by Chris. I still have the original plates sat in my garage as I used my PP on the car.
If you're certain on the clocks then maybe they have been swapped.

C.


Hi cableguy - It is certainly a lovely looking car though. I am just curious about the door cards and steering wheel: Are these standard or maybe RS upgrades?
All the best
tim
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