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James M-S
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 652
Location: Derby

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:34 pm    Post subject: Tyre advice request, Pirelli to Michelin Reply with quote

Hi All,

My car came with Pirelli Pzero rubber all round, which are fine, however I am keen to try out MPS4S that everyone raves about.

The problem I have is the different wear rates front to rear on my C2. I get through about 2.3 pairs of rear rubber to one pair of fronts.

My front Pirelli’s are finally due replacement, however the rears have over 3.5mm remaining.

I see three options:

1) Replace fronts with Pzero to match rears, wait another 2 years for them to go, and hope that rears need changing at same time.
2) Change all four tyres now (wasting perfectly good rears - I doubt many people would be interested in buying part-worn)
3) Go with Michelin fronts until mid summer when my rears need to be changed

I am tempted to go with 3).

I know this is far from ideal, but has anybody mixed front to rear? I’m looking for real world experience here.

I’m considering getting some instruction on track to improve my driving. Will this be a good way to finish off the rears, or will the on-limit handling be completely out with Michelin front and Pirelli rear?

Advice gratefully received, thanks in advance

Thumb

James
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FZP
Indianapolis


Joined: 18 Jan 2015
Posts: 2472
Location: Cheshire


PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd replace all 4 in one go. Then flog the tyres off on ebay or here. I had the same predicament and a forum member took my used tyres off of me. Winner winner
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997.2 Carrera 2S GT Silver/Cocoa.
 
  
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DRZ911
Barcelona


Joined: 13 Mar 2013
Posts: 1394
Location: Belfast


PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James,
if your car still has an OPC warranty (and has 19" wheels), then to maintain the warranty, the only Michelins which are N-rated are Pilot Sport 2 (PS2).

From my experience would have the Michelin over Pirelli any day (rain or shine).

If you are going with the Michelins (either the approved PS2 or even the PS4S), would just bite the bullet and go for all 4 at once as mixing manufacturers front to rear not a good idea as the balance of the car will be affected (and also would void any warranty).
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James M-S
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 652
Location: Derby

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Car isn’t under warranty, I’m just a tight Yorkshireman trying not to fork out £450 unnecessarily!

Rolling Eyes


I get it from a purist/theory/science perspective, but how bad can it really be....?
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kurlykris
Watkins Glen


Joined: 30 Jun 2014
Posts: 2167
Location: Warwickshire


PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James M-S wrote:
Car isn’t under warranty, I’m just a tight Yorkshireman trying not to fork out £450 unnecessarily!

Rolling Eyes


I get it from a purist/theory/science perspective, but how bad can it really be....?


My 996 was particularly, pants soilingly, undriveable at high speeds............so popping a different make of tyres on one end would have made it into a deathtrap Grin

Luckily Michelin PS2s were fitted and all was well in the universe thumbsup
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1998 996.1 C2 3.4 with "Aerokit Cup"
2006 Boxster S sport chrono
2010 Mercedes E350 AMG Sport

 
  
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tom_nieto
Monza


Joined: 08 Jan 2017
Posts: 187



PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Replace the fronts with Michelins and then replace the rears once you've left the other couple of millimetres of tread on the tarmac. Turn PSM off in the Maccy D's car park for faster wear and more ladiezz.

If your geo is ok then you'll be fine with different brands front to rear. Presumably you'll see a drop in wet weather performance once your existing rears reach 3mm and it'll be almost time to change them anyway.
 
  
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DRZ911
Barcelona


Joined: 13 Mar 2013
Posts: 1394
Location: Belfast


PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James M-S wrote:
Car isn’t under warranty, I’m just a tight Yorkshireman trying not to fork out £450 unnecessarily!
Rolling Eyes

I get it from a purist/theory/science perspective, but how bad can it really be....?

Lived in South Yorkshire for 5 years and never witnessed even the slightest tightness. Very Happy

From past experience, there is a significant difference in the behaviour of Michelin and Pirelli, and the faster/harder you go, then the more exaggerated the difference will become. As for wet weather handling, mixing tyre manufacturers would certainly spice things up in terms of predictability. nooo nooo

So, for the sake of a few quid, would not endanger myself, my car or others. You know it makes sense, so get all four tyres done at once. The PS4S will have you grinning from ear to ear. Laughing
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tom_nieto
Monza


Joined: 08 Jan 2017
Posts: 187



PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DRZ911 wrote:


From past experience, there is a significant difference in the behaviour of Michelin and Pirelli, and the faster/harder you go, then the more exaggerated the difference will become. As for wet weather handling, mixing tyre manufacturers would certainly spice things up in terms of predictability. nooo


This is quite accurate. It totally depends on how you plan to drive the car. Replacing the fronts for new rubber and leaving existing tyres on the back isn’t suddenly going to reduce your grip levels on the rear, but if you are extremely enthusiastic you might find the balance is slightly different and your rear end runs out of grip faster than the front. If you’re sliding everywhere already you’ve probably got bigger problems than just worn tyres.

Presumably as a tight Yorkshireman you’re trying to eek out every last MPG anyway so rear grip levels won’t be tested Very Happy
 
  
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arry
Hockenheim


Joined: 02 May 2015
Posts: 731
Location: South Essex


PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go with 3) it'll be fine.
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2001 Lapis Blue 996 C2 Manual
2012 Orange KTM 990 SMT
2016 Marsh Grey Royal Enfield Bullet 500
 
  
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MaxA
Suzuka


Joined: 11 Oct 2015
Posts: 1225
Location: Helsinki


PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At 3.5mm I'd swap out the rears for fresh rubber if you need to do the fronts. If they're getting old (you can check the build date), if may already be time. The car will feel great on new rubber all round. Once you're on Michelins, it'll be OK to swap axle by axle but I don't mix tyres. (You only need to learn from experience once.)
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Mikee Quickstep
Silverstone


Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 115
Location: London


PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a similar situation ... had contis all round but rears needed doing long before the fronts, stuck Super sports on the back and let the fronts wear out before sticking Super sports on the front.

When I finally switched the fronts the difference in front end grip and handling was significant. Way less understeer, more balance, much easier to stick the back out. I’ve done a few track days and driver training days so drive the car reasonably hard but still a relative newbie compared to most people here.

Was the car undrivable while I had mismatching tyres?..Not at all. Was it better after I had replaced the fronts? Absolutely!

I’d wear them down through doing some of the driver training u have lined up and then enjoy the performance boost when u finally swap them.
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Disco
Estoril


Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3876
Location: Hertfordshire

2010 Porsche 997 GT3

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Change all 4 would be my recommendation.

See if the forum or eBay will get you anything back for the part worn ones - someone out there with a damaged tyre on a part worn set may well be out there looking for an appropriately worn replacement to avoid replacing the full set and there are always people with a more bangernomic motoring mindset looking for bargains. Thumb
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Black 997 GT3 3.8 CS - Acquired for the 2012 season and beyond
Black 996 GT3 Mk2 - Gone, but will never be forgotten
 
  
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James M-S
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 652
Location: Derby

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumb
Thanks to all for your input, quite a variety.

I wonder if there are different behaviours between 996 and 997, or if its all down to Mich vs Conti vs Pirelli characteristics.

I’m no driving god, but lucky to have a twisty B-road commute to work. (Although I’ve been using my winter snotter for the last few weeks)

The car has never been on track, so I’ve never really explored the limits (hence forthcoming driver training with local TIPEC group).

I seldom try to get the back end moving around, and am very conscious of camber changes and the weight distribution in the car, although I do enjoy powering round twisties on a positive throttle.

I think I will go Michelin on the front, and then decide whether to change rears closer to the track time (or if I think the car is trying to kill me).

Keep the experiences coming though, it’s good to have real feedback.
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rigsby99
Monza


Joined: 22 Oct 2015
Posts: 161
Location: South Cheshire


PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DRZ911 wrote:
James,
if your car still has an OPC warranty (and has 19" wheels), then to maintain the warranty, the only Michelins which are N-rated are Pilot Sport 2 (PS2).

From my experience would have the Michelin over Pirelli any day (rain or shine).

If you are going with the Michelins (either the approved PS2 or even the PS4S), would just bite the bullet and go for all 4 at once as mixing manufacturers front to rear not a good idea as the balance of the car will be affected (and also would void any warranty).


Fitting non N tyres will not invalidate your warranty, new or used.
 
  
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resigner
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 1139



PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, about to need rears, but fronts (PS2's) are fine. I want to go to MPS4SPS4 thingys, it that a problem with PS2's on the front still? Car is now out of warranty so I can at last move on from PS2's so something more modern Smile

Op, change all 4. 3.5mm is almost nothing!
 
  
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Mikee Quickstep
Silverstone


Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 115
Location: London


PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

resigner wrote:

Op, change all 4. 3.5mm is almost nothing!


Ahhh I missed that when I read your first post... yeah you want to be changing them when you hit 3mm anyway really so might as well change all of them now! Thumb
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FRZ 911
Imola


Joined: 19 Jun 2015
Posts: 838
Location: East Africa/Northern Ireland

2007 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

resigner wrote:
Interesting, about to need rears, but fronts (PS2's) are fine. I want to go to MPS4SPS4 thingys, it that a problem with PS2's on the front still? Car is now out of warranty so I can at last move on from PS2's so something more modern Smile


Just did this and the car handled absolutely fine well, actually better.
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resigner
Suzuka


Joined: 19 Dec 2013
Posts: 1139



PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

excellent, found them for £262 each delivered to my friendly autocentre who fit my tyres. Sound about right?
 
  
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FRZ 911
Imola


Joined: 19 Jun 2015
Posts: 838
Location: East Africa/Northern Ireland

2007 Porsche 997 Carrera 4S

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

resigner wrote:
excellent, found them for £262 each delivered to my friendly autocentre who fit my tyres. Sound about right?


There or there abouts mate. There'll always be the odd better deal if you're willing to wait and/or hunt about. I ended up getting mine from Camskill but had the luxury of watching their prices rise and fall almost daily for quite a while before hitting the buy button. Think I managed to get mine for just under £255 each delivered (to NI) so there's not a massive amount of difference.

Great tyre and I'm sure you'll be pleased. thumbsup
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James M-S
Hockenheim


Joined: 11 Apr 2017
Posts: 652
Location: Derby

2009 Porsche 997 Carrera 2

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikee Quickstep wrote:
resigner wrote:

Op, change all 4. 3.5mm is almost nothing!


Ahhh I missed that when I read your first post... yeah you want to be changing them when you hit 3mm anyway really so might as well change all of them now! Thumb


3.5 was the single lowest measurement, most measurements across the width (at various radial positions) were 3.8 to 4.0.

If I go for 305 at the rear instead of 295, blackcirclesquote £871 for all 4 fitted.

With 295 at rear oponeo is £894 fitted

Fronts from black circles + rears from oponeo = £881 fitted

I’m hoping my local f1 autocentre (good guys) will price match like last time.

Any thoughts on 305/19 vs 295/19? No PASM on my misery spec c2. I’m inclined to go with factory spec 295
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